(Topic ID: 284708)

Williams Blackout Repair

By Flip-it-good

3 years ago


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There are 191 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
#1 3 years ago

Hi, I just picked up a Williams blackout and the person I bought it from had it plugged in and all the GI lighting was on and a buzz coming from the speaker. I packed it up brought it home and for the last few weeks I've been cleaning and tweaking. I know it doesn't work or start a game, however before I plug this in again I want to see if there's anything I should do beforehand. I noticed the knocker coil was melted and they had clipped and taped the wires. I suspect a bad transistor on the driver board. All other coils look healthy and clean. I removed the MPU and the Driver Board and re-flowed all the pins at the 40 pin connector. All pins and female connectors look clean, no burns or heat stress detected. No acid damage. All boards look remarkable! Does anyone have a chart showing coil/ transistor assignments? i e. Q1, Q7 etc and which transistor fires which coil? I'd like to find the transistor that matches the melted knocker coil.
What should I be looking for at power-up for LEDs on the MPU, or is that even of any value on a system 6? What should it do when power is turned on, dings, sounds, etc? Any other input someone may have would be very appreciated.
Many thanks in advance! Scott

#2 3 years ago

Recommend you start by reading vid's guide for bulletproofing williams games

There should be a coil table in the manual

If you need any help with it (board diagnostics, parts, etc) lmk. I've got a Blackout too and I'm in town

#4 3 years ago

Thank you, these docs are helpful. I have scanned the driver board schematic and cannot locate Q41, knocker coil transistor. Solenoid chart shows it as Q41. Coil was melted to the Mount and the wires were clipped when I bought the game so I figured I'd start there....

#5 3 years ago

Page 10 of the schematic, solenoid 14 drive

#6 3 years ago

Thank you Zacaj, I decided to drop the boards off to a local repair guy I had no idea there was one in town! I like to support local community businesses when I can. He took all three boards. In the meantime, I triple thicked the backglass to seal it, ordered transparent glass paint to touch up the missing paint, installed new rubber, lane guides, target and spinner decals and whipped up a couple of custom apron cards (see photos)...coming along just fine! Just have to order a few coin door price plates, jeez those things are pricey! Marco wants $8 a piece for those!

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#7 3 years ago

Can anyone say if I can substitute a 26-1500 coil for a burned out Williams 23-900 coil? It's for the knocker. Very little use. I understand that there are 1500 windings instead of 900 which makes for more resistance which puts less strain on the tip transistors and uses less energy. As long as it fires the plunger and I hear a decent knock it's fine by me. I just have a brand new coil and I'd hate to have to just go buy another one for no reason if it won't do any damage to the driver board.

#8 3 years ago

yeah, that's safe. as long as it functions how you like, there's no real issue.

well, besides if you sell it and someone looks in and goes 'wtf is this hack, ugh'

#10 3 years ago

mof, The yellow bumper caps suit the upper playfield well. Breaks it up nice! I ended up spraying the yellow flipper bats a cream white, re-made the diagnostics label inside the coin door.. (See before/after pictures) and the inside cabinet is now wired with a lamp socket near each flipper button for rgb color changing led bulbs that will light up a pair of clear flipper buttons. Next I'll run a socket hidden under the ball trough and illuminate that area. What color bulb.....hmmm comin' along...!

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#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Flip-it-good:

Can anyone say if I can substitute a 26-1500 coil for a burned out Williams 23-900 coil? It's for the knocker. Very little use. I understand that there are 1500 windings instead of 900 which makes for more resistance which puts less strain on the tip transistors and uses less energy. As long as it fires the plunger and I hear a decent knock it's fine by me. I just have a brand new coil and I'd hate to have to just go buy another one for no reason if it won't do any damage to the driver board.

On blackout, the knocker fires with each coin dropped. It will see more use than expected unless you're running free play.

#12 3 years ago

Ok, thanks... I will simply order the correct coil and be done with it... I appreciate the feedback sir!

#13 3 years ago

Okay got the correct coil for the knocker and that's been installed the circuit boards came back from repair and I still get no boot up. Got two solid red LEDs on the mpu and a buzz coming from the speaker and that's it. All the general illumination is on and looks good no attract mode no boot up. the repair shop had these on the test fixture all day and apparently they were reading correctly the only thing I did not give them was my soundboard could that have anything to do with this? Really feeling frustrated I've never not been able to get a Williams game running. Any assistance from anywhere on the planet would be very appreciated...Thank you!

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Flip-it-good:

Okay got the correct coil for the knocker and that's been installed the circuit boards came back from repair and I still get no boot up. Got two solid red LEDs on the mpu and a buzz coming from the speaker and that's it. All the general illumination is on and looks good no attract mode no boot up. the repair shop had these on the test fixture all day and apparently they were reading correctly the only thing I did not give them was my soundboard could that have anything to do with this? Really feeling frustrated I've never not been able to get a Williams game running. Any assistance from anywhere on the planet would be very appreciated...Thank you!

Anything on the displays?

#15 3 years ago

Nothing. Displays are dark...

#16 3 years ago

Two Leds on means it's not booting. Sound card won't cause that. Could be bad sockets, bad 5v, bad 12v, bad interconnect

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Two Leds on means it's not booting. Sound card won't cause that. Could be bad sockets, bad 5v, bad 12v, bad interconnect

I'd start with voltages on mpu and make sure ground strap is attached at head! This caused issues on mine.

Failed diodes are common on power board and loose connections on power board will cause low voltage.

#18 3 years ago

The repair facility had both the driver board and the mpu connected together and running most of the day I also gave them the power supply board and they checked that and that was healthy. Where do I check voltages specifically? I'm pretty good with a multimeter. Perhaps you can share a step-by-step...I will check the ground strap as well.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from Flip-it-good:

The repair facility had both the driver board and the mpu connected together and running most of the day I also gave them the power supply board and they checked that and that was healthy. Where do I check voltages specifically? I'm pretty good with a multimeter. Perhaps you can share a step-by-step...I will check the ground strap as well.

In the manual there's a diagram of all the boards, and it has the voltage input and output labeled.

#20 3 years ago

So I'm looking for the output test points for all of these different voltages on the mpu?

#21 3 years ago

The mpu is on top and the driver board is connected underneath two screws attached the mpu at the top and two screws attached the driver board at the bottom I don't have screws in the middle where the interconnect is because I read somewhere where you don't want that touching the metal behind it so I put a piece of thick tape over the bracket so the back side of a board would not short out.

#22 3 years ago

I found this chart in the Williams manual I'm just not sure where to check the +5 volts or 12v it does not say how or where. I also did what the chart suggested and completely removed the driver board and powered the machine back up. The two red LEDs still remain on. No boot.
I guess I just need someone to help me one step at a time on how to check various voltages and at what spots and how this affects boot. Thank you in advance and apologize for being a bit green...S

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#23 3 years ago

The 12 volts test point is in the upper left corner of the MPU. The 5 volts is in the lower right corner of the board. Ground is also in the lower right corner. Put the meter’s black lead on ground and the red on the test points (one at a time) to read your voltages. Report back.

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#24 3 years ago

Hello! TP1 upper left is 8.35 VDC and TP9 is 3.71 VDC. The ground at TP 10 reads zero. Thank you kindly for offering to help...

#25 3 years ago

You’re not booting up because your five volts is too low. Go to Pinwiki and go they the steps to check your power supply.

#26 3 years ago

First try unplugging the MPU, see if the 5V goes back up. there could be a short dragging the voltage down. 5V can also be checked across the

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#27 3 years ago

Disconnect the MPU: Not sure how to disconnect the MPU. I see the two black circles at two different connectors in the diagrams....I tried disconnecting J2 at the top left side of the CPU board then checked for 5V. At TP9, It's still around 3.6V....

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from Flip-it-good:

Disconnect the MPU: Not sure how to disconnect the MPU. I see the two black circles at two different connectors in the diagrams....I tried disconnecting J2 at the top left side of the CPU board then checked for 5V. At TP9, It's still around 3.6V....

For disconnecting the mpu, I'd probably do all the connectors to be sure. 5v comes in at multiple connectors so the mpu could still be draining it. The circled connectors are where the 5v exits the power supply and its primary entrance to the mpu, for reference points to use when checking voltage (since you won't be able to use the mpu test points once it's unplugged)

#29 3 years ago

Ok, here's something... I was reading the Williams three through six pin wiki and was measuring the giant blue capacitor on the power supply and noticed that the bottom lead had come away from the capacitor! So I was measuring voltage like it said to do and found that it was disconnected! I dropped a little hot solder as a temporary fix and now there's 12V and 5V and we're in attract mode.
And just now a relay started clicking in the back box and everything went dark and flashed on the playfield I'm not sure if that is a power problem or if that is what the attract mode looks like for blackout. The loud hum is still in the speaker and half the displays now light up. Specifically, the master display and player 2 and 4 show all zeros. Very encouraging. Could that large blue capacitor on the power supply have been the cause of lower voltage on the mpu?

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#30 3 years ago
Quoted from Flip-it-good:

Ok, here's something... I was reading the Williams three through six pin wiki and was measuring the giant blue capacitor on the power supply and noticed that the bottom lead had come away from the capacitor! So I was measuring voltage like it said to do and found that it was disconnected! I dropped a little hot solder as a temporary fix and now there's 12V and 5V and we're in attract mode.
And just now a relay started clicking in the back box and everything went dark and flashed on the playfield I'm not sure if that is a power problem or if that is what the attract mode looks like for blackout. The loud hum is still in the speaker and half the displays now light up. Specifically, the master display and player 2 and 4 show all zeros. Very encouraging. Could that large blue capacitor on the power supply have been the cause of lower voltage on the mpu?
[quoted image]

1) Relay and GI flash is normal.

2) Strongly advise replacing all caps on power board along with those two diodes with heavy duty units per pinwiki.

You are booting up so a great improvement! Before pulling power board check HV for displays.

#31 3 years ago

Yep, that'd do it! That cap is on the 12v, which gets regulated down to 5v, so without it both those voltages will be weak. If your repair place didn't replace that cap, you definitely should. It can cause resets and other issues if it's too old.

Similarly, for the hum from the speaker, first thing to do is recap the sound board

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Similarly, for the hum from the speaker, first thing to do is recap the sound board

I'd get it running proper first myself. Might introduce new issues.

Dumb question, can you start a game? Any sound effects?

#33 3 years ago

Very good ideas I will order a capacitor kit for both the soundboard and the power supply. Yes, game credits up, knocker fires, although weakly, and game starts. Targets register, no sound, still has loud hum/buzz coming from speaker. Two of four displays are out so can't see score rack up in player 1 and player 3 displays. The two diodes you were mentioning, are those the two large black ones at the bottom left of the large capacitor? If so, do you know the part number?

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#34 3 years ago

Diodes can be replaced by 6A4 iirc. Check Vid's guide, he lists upgraded parts for all this stuff.

Have you tried swapping the displays around to see where the display issue is?

#35 3 years ago

Ok, I swapped one of two known good displays to all four-player harnesses and there is power to all of them although the fourth digit is flashing on each harness that I connected a good display to. So it appears that two of my four displays are bad, they don't light up in any position.

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#36 3 years ago

Ok, I tried a known good display on all four player harnesses and the harnesses all have power. Apparently I have two bad displays. I moved the two good displays to the player one and two positions. The fourth digit blinks or goes out on all 4 player positions on both good displays, and the first digit in player one position sometimes changes to a 6 every few seconds. So, I assume it's something in the master display board and not the wire harnesses themselves that needs to be addressed. I'd like to stop and thank you both for carrying me this far, I really appreciate it. My gloom changed to rays of hope as things start to come around!!

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#37 3 years ago

That 6 is probably showing the high score (default to 600k?)

There's a resistor on the master display board for each digit that commonly burns up, should check them.

The digits are separated into two sets (1+3, 2+4) so it's a bit weird having the same digit out on all four, unless one of your displays has a bad segment and took out the driver circuitry or something

#38 3 years ago

Ah yes, you're right. The 600,000 default high score alternating in the display. I'm trying to pinpoint the resistor(s) that need replacing. How do I check a resistor, power on/off, setting on multimeter? I found a system 6 display schematic here on Pinside.

#39 3 years ago

On this board, iirc all the resistors can just be measured with power off. I'd just check every one on the board and compare the readings with the schematic.

This all might be a moot point though since you have two dead displays. You're either going to need to source some used displays for the other two, or switch all 5 to LED, in which case the master display will be getting replaced too.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

On this board, iirc all the resistors can just be measured with power off. I'd just check every one on the board and compare the readings with the schematic.
This all might be a moot point though since you have two dead displays. You're either going to need to source some used displays for the other two, or switch all 5 to LED, in which case the master display will be getting replaced too.

Check the HV levels for the displays, something might have taken them out. I have a Space Shuttle all 5 displays were blown.

It doesn't seem uncommon for this vintage Williams, my Blackout already has LED displays.

Unless you can get two cheap-cheap, LED is the way.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from Flip-it-good:

Very good ideas I will order a capacitor kit for both the soundboard and the power supply. Yes, game credits up, knocker fires, although weakly, and game starts. Targets register, no sound, still has loud hum/buzz coming from speaker.

Good then, yes time to order cap kit for sound board.

It might not hurt to pull proms from sound board and gently clean the legs with a brass brush and reinstall. I have "repaired" a few games doing this and it may bring the sound back. Costs nothing to try.

#42 3 years ago

Ok, I just ordered the sound card repair kit and will replace all the capacitors. I also ordered the power supply repair kit with all four new capacitors and the diode kit that goes with it.
There is a sound ROM in a socket and a long 40 pin IC in a socket on the main board and 3 socketed 24 pin chips on the speech board. Which is a PROM? Or should I take everything that has a socket off and clean the legs? I will be looking around for original replacement displays andI also looked into the Wolfpac set for $100 if you want to solder your own components. Where and how do I test the high voltage for the displays like you mentioned about the space shuttle?

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from Flip-it-good:

Or should I take everything that has a socket off and clean the legs? I will be looking around for original replacement displays andI also looked into the Wolfpac set for $100 if you want to solder your own components. Where and how do I test the high voltage for the displays like you mentioned about the space shuttle?

1) Take everything out of the sound board with a socket one at a time and clean.

2) Wolfpac is good, I have used Rottendog and PinScore as well with no issues.

3) Voltages listed in manual and Pinwiki. Test at the upper connector of power supply board if memory serves.

If going with LED displays don't bother, just pull the high voltage supply fuse on the board.

#44 3 years ago

Here is the picture of the upper left of the power supply, there are four + symbols that look like test points. Could this be where you test the voltages?

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#45 3 years ago

Those are for extra capacitors that aren't used on later games.

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from Flip-it-good:

Here is the picture of the upper left of the power supply, there are four + symbols that look like test points. Could this be where you test the voltages?
[quoted image]

At the connector, top left. Take it right off, power up and check at pins.

Dont cross the streams or get zapped.

#47 3 years ago

First four pins read zero. Last pin in the 6th position reads 5.0 VDC. as far as the sound card goes I pulled every chip off cleaned the pins very well, and reinstalled them, still no sound no speech. I did notice however if I jiggle the far right wire which I think is the power inlet wire for the sound card, it's a long triple gray wire and it comes right from the transformer, that the loud buzzing has now disappeared so I'm not sure if it's a connection issue at that harness. What is the voltage that is supposed to come out of that triple gray wire? Is that something I can test?

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#48 3 years ago
Quoted from Flip-it-good:

What is the voltage that is supposed to come out of that triple gray wire? Is that something I can test?
[quoted image]

It's been a long time since I had a blackout but IIRC, +18 and -18 V for for the power, can't remember if it's AC or DC

#49 3 years ago

And

That cap is bulging in your pic, get some replacements here
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=45

#50 3 years ago

-100 & +100 volts

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