(Topic ID: 114195)

Williams Big Deal help please.

By crujones4life

9 years ago


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big deal circuit startup.png
bigDeal.jpg
#1 9 years ago

So got it into my arcade. Turn it on and it is in a constant state of coining up. I look inside the machine and the coin counter keeps increasing. What do I do?

#2 9 years ago

You have a stuck or dirty switch somewhere in the coin path. Check for stuck switches under the coin mechs.

#3 9 years ago

The coin mechs themselves are gone. There is 2 switches underneath where the mechs would be but manipulating them has no effect on the constant coining up...

#4 9 years ago

I can play a game and the game scores correctly but machine keeps coining up...it jumps up to a 4 player game...any ideas?

#5 9 years ago

Check your start button as well.

If you have the schematic, basically you need to trace back from the coin counter stepup solenoid and figure out all the switches in the path.

Are the coin switches microswitches? Is one of the tiny bumps stuck down?

You've got a stuck switch somewhere or other - or the appearance of a stuck switch due to dirt.

#6 9 years ago

I'll check it out. Thanks!

#7 9 years ago

Cleaned and adjusted start button switch and coin door switches-no change.
Cleaned coin relay switches-no change.
Pulled and reseated every Jones plug in machine-no change.
Unplugged coin door Jones plug-no change.

Coin relay constantly fires.
Coin stepper constantly fires.
Machine constantly coining up.
Motor constantly runs.

What should I do next? Don't have schematics and couldn't read them if I did...lol.

#8 9 years ago

Also unplugged the playfield-no change.

#10 9 years ago

Heres the schematics. http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=245

Does the score motor ever stop running? Does it start running as soon as the machine is turned on?
When you say its coining up do you mean you see credits being added always?

Look at E and 3.5 you will see the score motor. If you move down the line you will see that there are 12 different branches. any one of those switches being closed will cause the score motor to run

Inspect each carefully. Im going to take a guess and say its your reset relay. see if the reset relay actuates properly and that the switches are gapped correctly.

If the reset relay is pulling in always we can look and see why that is occuring. One thing at a time and lets be methodical and we should be able to track this down.

--Jeff

#11 9 years ago

Thanks! I'll report back tonight.

#12 9 years ago

Oh and the answer to your 3 questions are No, Yes, Yes.

#13 9 years ago

Every relay in the bottom of the machine looks to be spaced correctly to me. Replay relay fires upon start up resetting players to 1. Then it stops firing and player counter goes up to 4 and continuously adds credits.

#14 9 years ago

I looked at the schematics. I can't make sense of them. Every relays switches look to be spaced correctly and open/close correctly when actuated. Steppers all reset correctly when I turn machine on. I am lost. Think I got in over my head for my 2nd EM...not giving up though.

#15 9 years ago

Could it be a switch on the motor? I hope not as that looks scary.

#16 9 years ago

so when you unplug the coin door and activate the coin relay what happens?

Also check motor switch 5 E. That the top make break switch on the score motor.
6th cam from the motor itself.

#17 9 years ago

when I unplug the coin door the coin relay fires constantly still...does that switch you mentioned on the score motor control the coin relay? I will check it out. Thanks!

#18 9 years ago

so does the coin relay start firing wen you turn on the machine? When you hit the left flipper button? When you hit the coin relay?

#19 9 years ago

Coin relay fires immediately upon power up of the machine. Nothing I have done so far stops it. Not left flipper button not coin switches.

#20 9 years ago

ok lets get the score motor to stop running.

Looks like there are 10 switches that can make the score motor run. Lets visually inspect each switch and put a piece of paper in between each. This should either tell us which switch is the problem or if theres a short or something odd

looks like all the switches are the ones with the yellow/ orange Green wire

the switches are on the following relays

Rollover relay
Score motor Index Cam (closest to Motor) top switch (this is my guess that its not opening on teh make break)
Reset Relay
Outhole Relay
Bonus Relay
500 Relay
Transfer Reset Relay
5000 Pt relay
Coin Relay
10 cent relay

bigDeal.jpgbigDeal.jpg
#21 9 years ago

Progress! The top switch on the index cam was not opening. Gonna put playfield back in and see what happens.

#22 9 years ago

Well I can add credits at coin door. Start button does nothing. Ball won't eject. I can drop ball in shooter lane and play everything on playfield seems to be in order. Game doesn't recognize ball draining.

#23 9 years ago

Outhole relay does fire when manually activated. When activated ball in play never changes but player moves to 4 and stays there.

#24 9 years ago

To clarify. Stays on player 1 and ball 1. But says 4 can play.

#25 9 years ago

Game won't reset because start button doesn't do anything. I can get to reset by manually activating reset relay.

#26 9 years ago

How can I get a game to start without pressing the start button? Or better yet...how do I get the game to start by pressing the start button? Start button does nothing. Won't reset the game (I can reset by activating the reset relay) and won't start a game. I can "play" but scoring and flippers are the only things working as a game hasn't actually started (game won't reset, ball won't fire into shooter lane, stays on player 1 and ball 1). Thanks so much for all your help so far! I really really appreciate it! Sorry for all the posts I just post things as they come to mind...

#27 9 years ago

I cannot locate a start relay...is the reset relay the same thing? I found that if I hold down the switch in ball trough that activates the outhole relay while I activate the reset relay the outhole relay will fire. This is as close as I have come to replicating a normal startup sequence. However even after doing this when I lower the playfield and play a ball when it drains the end of ball bonus doesn't count down, the ball in play does not change, the player does not change, the outhole relay will not fire the ball back into the shooter lane.

#28 9 years ago

I also made it free play...was hoping somehow that would help. Nope.

#29 9 years ago

Everything needs to be reset before a game can start right? I just realized when I trigger the reset relay it always defaults to 2 players. Instead of 0 or 1. Could that keep start button from working and keep game from playing? If so I will remove and clean that stepper...rather have conformation that this may be the issue first though. Thanks!

#30 9 years ago

Ok. Do b you see the credits step down but 1 when you press the start button?

If not we need to check

Reset relay
bottom switch on score motor index coget
Credit unit 0 pos switch should be closed
1 of 4 others b after that
Game over
player unit at 0
ball count at 0
Coin unit at max

-Jeff

#31 9 years ago

Credit unit 0 position is closed.
Ball count is at 1 after reset relay is triggered.

Player unit starts at 1 after reset relay is triggered...so I will check that. Number of players starts at 2...So I reset the stepper for coin unit manually and it drops down to 1 player.

The coin unit stepper should be at max? Still not working.

Reset relay seems to work correctly when I trigger it.

Do I just make sure game over relay triggers "game over"? Don't see a game over relay although there is one that is not labeled. Turns out this is the game over relay. Seems to be working correctly.

What should I be looking at in regards to the bottom switch on the index cam? What does that switch do?

The credits did count down by one when the score motor ran continuously...I will add credits and try the start button again...if that doesn't work I will trigger the reset relay and see if it counts down by one. So start button still does nothing. Triggering reset relay drops credit wheel by two the first time then by one. Just like it starts at 2 players then increases to 3 and 4.

#32 9 years ago

Damn file uploader won't work. Bottom switch on index cam is open when motor is at rest is this correct? It didn't make any difference anyway...

#33 9 years ago

So I found the manual attached to the bottom of the machine. It shows whether switches are normally open or closed in all the relays. Made a few minor adjustments but everything looks good I think. Really didn't make any progress...one thing I noticed. When I add a credit at coin door (and machine jumps to a 2 player game like always) the ball would kick out into shooter lane. So I play and when the ball drains nothing. No bonus countdown, ball never shoots over to plunger, ball stays on ball 1, stays on player 1...And my start button still does nothing. Another thing that is weird is that if I hold down the advance bonus switch on the playfield after the ball has drained it will shoot over to plunger again...but everything else stays the same as mentioned above. I know this is going to take some time but man I just spent 4+ hours tonight on this and got nowhere...frustrating.

#34 9 years ago

The player reset relay stays on once activated manually. Not sure if that would be the case under normal circumstances. Switches seem to be adjusted correctly.

I think the ball index relay stays on too when manually activated. Again switches look good.

#35 9 years ago

heres an update for non FB

Heres the circuit we are looking at I would suggest looking at motor switch IND A first
big deal circuit startup.pngbig deal circuit startup.png

You can jump circuits with alligator clips and a wire by say clipping on side on the tang of the NC switch on the reset relay to the start button thus eliminating or identifying the score motor switch as the issue

--jeff

#36 9 years ago

Thanks! I'll report back.

1 week later
#37 9 years ago

The index contact on the scoremotor is adjusted right?
Closing on the motorturn and opening on the gap?
Is the top contact.
If it doesn't help the motor to the index position almost nothing works on your machine.

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from wizardblom:

The index contact on the scoremotor is adjusted right?
Closing on the motorturn and opening on the gap?
Is the top contact.
If it doesn't help the motor to the index position almost nothing works on your machine.

Yes it was adjusted correctly. I sold the pin last Thursday for extra Disney World money. Definitely had more fun with that money here in 'Lando. Thanks so much to everyone for trying to help me out.

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