(Topic ID: 294662)

Williams Big Daddy Rat Trap score reel jumping ahead

By pinworks

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 5 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by vec-tor
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    #1 2 years ago

    I am working on a Williams Big Daddy. Everything works except for the ones score reel. It works perfectly in single point scoring. There are a number of rollovers that should score 5 points. They score between 5 and 9 points.
    The scoring unit works perfectly if the number reel is removed.
    I took several videos of the 1 point relay and slowed them down so that I could see the individual closure of the points and the movement of the armature that holds the points. Everything is correct.
    The match unit steps up 1 each time the 1 point relay pulls in. The match unit is stepping correctly.
    I took videos of the score assembly with the reel attached. In slow motion, you can see the reel behaving very jerkily. Sometimes it moves correctly, other times it will jump two or three numbers with a single fire of the coil.
    I have replaced the coil stop, cleaned the cam shaft that turns the score reel, adjusted the 9 position and 0 position switch riders to cause as much tension as possible with the blades that are on there and adjusted the snowshoe on the under side of the reel. I even replaced the cam shaft. The bottom set of cogs that the coil uses to turn the reel were worn almost smooth.
    Nothing makes any difference.
    These displays are the ones Clay refers to as rat trap. Gottlieb and Williams used them before Gottlieb went to the Decagon unit and Williams switched to the small plastic reels. I can't find anything that is supposed to act as a brake on the spin of the wheel except the cam followers for the 9 and 0 switches and the catch that prevents the reel turning backward when the coil fires. I replaced that spring too.
    Suggestions?
    Discussion?
    Help?
    Thank you
    Pinworks

    #2 2 years ago

    Note: Williams Big Daddy has a design flaw.
    1) Does game score normally if each switch is activated individually by hand?
    1a) if yes, then
    2) Does game score fail when ball goes through a top rollover switch and hits the pop bumper?
    2a) if yes, then
    3) you need to add a separation score relay to the game.

    #3 2 years ago

    The game does not score properly when the roll over switches are activated by hand. The 10 score reel seems to be working better since I moved the square block that the pawl rests against. This is the pawl that is moved when the coil fires. The pawl moves to the next notch and then moves the score reel 1 digit when the coil turns off. There was a certain amount of play in the rotation of the score reel and tightening the sliding block corrected that. It also greatly reduced the number of times the tens unit would count more that 5 steps on the 50-when-lit rollover. It works almost all of the time now.

    I also moved the block on the units score. That took almost all of the play out of the reel and now it works correctly about 50-60% of the time. It still isn't fixed.

    As far as I know, the pop bumpers score correctly. I will test them in conjunction with the roll over.

    What kind of failure should I be looking for? Extra points, or less than expected?

    What is a separation score relay? What activates it? What connections does it make/break?

    Thank you
    Pinworks

    #4 2 years ago

    Mine has the same issue...

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinworks:

    What kind of failure should I be looking for? Extra points, or less than expected?

    I believe it gives incorrect points total...
    I think Williams has the flaw of opening up the circuit to the lock-in
    contacts that control the pulses to the drum units.
    single 1, or 10, or 100 points, works fine.
    When the score motor turns, the lock-in points are disengaged and causes
    the drums relays to free range.
    Make sure you have a spring steel wave washer to the drum units that do not
    have a pcb contact plate.

    Quoted from pinworks:

    What is a separation score relay?

    On Big Daddy, the pop bumpers are to close to the rollover lanes...
    I helped a guy with his Big Daddy problem by adding another relay that separated the
    rollover score contact from the pop bumper contacts...
    I think the pop bumper relay added pulses to the next drum unit or something...
    It had to do with the timing motor still turning and then the pop bumper relay
    was adding free floating current pulses on top of everything...
    I do not have the schematics to the game... it was a while ago.

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