(Topic ID: 250370)

Williams Beat The Clock Clock Operation


By o-din

5 months ago



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There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 months ago

On my WMS BTC I picked up last weekend, everything's been working great until I finally wound the clock to 12 where it stopped.

According to the instructions at 12 it is supposed to light the 6 and I should be able to continue winding the clock at least to 6. So I took out the unit and there is a screw installed as a stop that stops it at 12, but also serves as a stop when the game resets which is also at 12.

Without this stop, it looks like upon reset, the stepper would just unwind the spring all the way and freewheel to a random stop. It is the kind of stepper with two coils, one that clicks up, one that releases upon reset.

So to anyone else that owns one or knows the function, is it supposed to be at 12 when game starts? If so, it needs to at least be able to go around 1 1/2 times and still reset and come to a stop.

The only other thing I can come up with is it is supposed to start at 6 and somebody moved it or some special mechanism I am missing. Any advice would be appreciated. I've been thru 100s of these steppers just like this one, but this has me confused.

Thanks for any help!

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#2 5 months ago

It's looking now like it's supposed to reset and start the game at 6, not 12, and the clock hand was installed incorrectly and one full revolution is all it's supposed to do? That's all I can come up with.

Appreciate any input if that is not correct.

#3 5 months ago

It's broken

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#4 5 months ago

Ship it here, I'll fix it

#5 5 months ago

Is that unit in the head, or down inside the cab? <edit> Nevermind...I see that is the head from the light board sockets...I'll look at mine tonight to see if I can help...

I have two of those, in the projects pile, and the heads are easily accessible. So I'm hoping they're in the head and maybe I can gleam some info by how mine are set up...or at least if it's different from yours.

Of course someone with a working game would be better fershure...

#6 5 months ago

Yes.

I think with this kind of stepper, it has to have some kind of a stop so when it resets it won't freewheel and totally unwind the spring. That screw looks makeshift like the original stop is missing.

I also figured if it has to be able to make it to 6:00, then it has to start about 7:00? I've never had one or played one before, so I have no point of reference.

#7 5 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Yes.
I think with this kind of stepper, it has to have some kind of a stop so when it resets it won't freewheel and totally unwind the spring. That screw looks makeshift like the original stop is missing.
I also figured if it has to be able to make it to 6:00, then it has to start about 7:00? I've never had one or played one before, so i have no point of reference.

I wonder if Banning (John) has one? There is a tech day coming up in Sept. You could go look. Its fun to help out and I have often used it as a Library so to speak, in addition to it being a museum.

#8 5 months ago

I don't remember seeing one at Banning when I was out there.

It just seems odd that it would start at 7:00, but that seems to be the only way it would work.

The clock hand can be installed at any position on the shaft.

#9 5 months ago

Can’t remember for sure but I don’t think the clock resets at startup. I could message the dude I sold it to. Unless mine didn’t work properly I am pretty sure the clock didn’t go to any certain number at start.

#10 5 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Can’t remember for sure but I don’t think the clock resets at startup.

That's for sure. It does. It's a spring loaded stepper with a reset coil.

#11 5 months ago

Youtube's no help. The one on there starts at 3:00.

#12 5 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Youtube's no help. The one on there starts at 3:00.

Contacted guy that bought mine. It does not reset at startup. So that should help you

#13 5 months ago

They're all broken

#14 5 months ago

The info on IPDB is most likely the same info on the instruction card. "I have never played this game".

It might start at 6, when it gets to 12 and you have multi ball the clock should be moving until 6 again. What if it just had a random start. A carry over award. If the previous player walked away from the game with the clock at 10, would be a bonus to the next player.

#15 5 months ago
Quoted from Darcy:

The info on IPDB is most likely the same info on the instruction card. "I have never played this game".

It might start at 6, when it gets to 12 and you have multi ball the clock should be moving until 6 again. What if it just had a random start. A carry over award. If the previous player walked away from the game with the clock at 10, would be a bonus to the next player.

I thought 6 at first, but it has to be 7 because of the stop which allows an almost complete, but not an entire rotation. If it is supposed to make more than one rotation and still be able to reset, it needs some kind of fancy mechanical device which definitely isn't there.

The stepper itself is labeled "Clock Unit" so I am assuming it is correct.

On my Magic Clock, it can go around at least twice and still reset, but uses an old school stepper that is meant to do so and is not part of mechanical animation, only lighted.

#16 5 months ago

If it started at 6 then a Special would be awarded right away. So I would guess that you are right with starting at 7. Since the awarding of Specials does not appear to be adjustable.

#17 5 months ago
Quoted from Darcy:

If it started at 6 then a Special would be awarded right away.

You have to reach 12 to light the 6 I think

#18 5 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

You have to reach 12 to light the 6 I think

That's where this whole thing started. I pegged 12 and it stopped.

Manually working the stepper, I can get that 6 to light, so I know where to attach the hand, but that screw used as a stop is rinky dink and doesn't look original. And when it now pegs at 6 it jams it up and locks the knocker and replay circuit on.

I can make it work correctly, if I know what correctly is.

#19 5 months ago

The original stop pegs would be attached with a smaller screw and have a brown sleeve over the stop shaft. It looks like that one may have been added or modified. There are different holes on the stepper gear. Maybe you can play around with moving it to another spot.

Also there wouldn't be a reset coil on this unit if it wasn't meant to reset at some point.

#20 5 months ago

This pic on IPDB with score reels zeroed out looks like the clock starts near the 7. Maybe with some digging you can find more pics online with the score reels zeroed (at reset) to verify.

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#21 5 months ago
Quoted from AlexF:

The original stop pegs would be attached with a smaller screw and have a brown sleeve over the stop shaft.

Those would normally be on the outside of the gear to activate switches.

The difference between this stepper and every other Wms stepper like it I have seen beside the funky screw is the stop would be a small round nub peened to the back of the gear wheel, and the backing plate would have an additional stop plate with two adjusting screws holding it in place in the lower right.

This one has the backing stop plate under that spring mounting post by the screw in this pic.

Quoted from AlexF:

This pic on IPDB with score reels zeroed out looks like the clock starts near the 7.

That's what I'm thinking at this point.
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#23 5 months ago

That's looking more correct by the minute.

I need to set it up so when it hits 6, it goes a little past it so it won't lock the knocker on.

#24 5 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

Haha!

#25 5 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Youtube's no help. The one on there starts at 3:00.

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#26 5 months ago
Quoted from Stoomer:

I have two of those, in the projects pile

I’m jealous. I’ve been looking for a decent one.

#27 5 months ago
Quoted from Murphdom:

I’m jealous. I’ve been looking for a decent one.

Seeing that nobody knows how it's really supposed to work, most of them must be sitting in piles.

I had one that was a real pile.

#28 5 months ago

I think I finally found a decent vid of how this clock is supposed to work.

#29 5 months ago

I agree. Looking through pictures on ipdb, pinball owners, and the rest of the inter web I found pictures with the machine zeroed out between 6 and 7

#30 5 months ago

The clock dose not reset at the start of a new game, its a carry over feature and continues from where the last game left off. Once the clock reaches 12 it will light the 6 and the two kickout holes for the sepcial. If the clock goes past 6 you collect the special or if you get a ball in the kickout hole at any time all of the specials go out. Hope that helps.

#31 5 months ago
Quoted from flipit:

The clock dose not reset at the start of a new game, its a carry over feature and continues from where the last game left off. Once the clock reaches 12 it will light the 6 and the two kickout holes for the sepcial. If the clock goes past 6 you collect the special or if you get a ball in the kickout hole at any time all of the specials go out. Hope that helps.

Thanks! That doesn't sound bad, however then somehow I must have the complete wrong assembly in there with an extra coil and wires that look factory to reset it when the game starts.

Maybe they made two different styles. I don't have a schematic at the moment, but have one on the way. That will at least clear up if it should reset or not.

But I do appreciate all input on this. Replays and when you get them are important here. Just like working coin mechs.

#32 5 months ago

Scratch that! I'm taking that back!

The wires to the reset coil don't look so factory after all!

#33 5 months ago

Hey nicovolta any idea on the clock operation of this game?

#34 5 months ago
Quoted from Wmsfan:

Hey nicovolta any idea on the clock operation of this game?

I doubt he would have a clue unless he owns one which I also seriously doubt.

I now think it is as flipit said and wickerman too. I have been at work all day, but just got my second look at it since last night.

My game looks like someone did some engineering to modify it to reset instead of just keep clocking. Those wires are the dead giveaway. But what about all the pics of ones starting between 6:00 and 7:00? Crazy stuff! I want to see the schematic.
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#36 5 months ago

Those wires look a bit janky for sure

#37 5 months ago

I looked at that before even starting this one.

I now think someone went to a lot of trouble on mine to make it different. But I also get the feeling it's not the only one.

Heck, I could have still been playing with brand new redline Hot Wheels when it happened.

It was dropping a friends HO locomotive when I was six that I learned I needed to know how to fix things. It's never ended...

#38 5 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

I now think someone went to a lot of trouble on mine to make it different.

They must of soldered those connections with winter gloves on as well.

#39 5 months ago

Oh poop! I forgot to look at my two(or maybe three??) heads I have for this game last night. We will try again tonight...stupid old brain!! LOL

Actually...I do have an excuse, I was having tacos last night and could think of little else...from what I know of o-din I think this excuse is legit.

#40 5 months ago

I'd definitely take good tacos over straining my brain any more on this thing.

#41 5 months ago

I couldn’t think of anything but tacos while digging this out and exposing the Clock unit...now very hungry.

I checked two of mine and neither had two coils in that unit, so the suspicion is correct - some enterprising pin monkey added that little on for ya! Good news is other than the coil itself your unit looks the same to me...

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#42 5 months ago

Looks like I might end up with some extra parts including a couple levers and several springs.

But there is a reason somebody did this and it may not be the only one. Probably to cut down on free replays.

#43 5 months ago

If it was a mod is there anything on the rule card about decrementing for that feature?

#44 5 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'd definitely take good tacos over straining my brain any more on this thing.

#45 5 months ago
Quoted from MikeO:

If it was a mod is there anything on the rule card about decrementing for that feature?

It doesn't change the rules at all. It takes away the randomness of lighting the kickout holes for special at 12 and the number 6 on the clock replay. Makes it so you have to earn them and they will therefore happen less often.

#46 5 months ago

I have one in for overhaul. If you are still stuck and need images or info, just ask it's no trouble.

1 week later
#47 5 months ago

Did you figure it out?

1 week later
#48 4 months ago

o-din I just picked up a beat the clock. Once I grab a hold of it at York I might need you to snap a few pictures of yours

1 week later
#49 4 months ago
Quoted from Murphdom:

Did you figure it out?

Yes, I think the consensus is mine was modified to reset the clock at the beginning of each game. So far I've just left it that way.

#50 4 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Yes, I think the consensus is mine was modified to reset the clock at the beginning of each game. So far I've just left it that way.

I would just leave it. It’s good to know that it has a carry over feature though. I’m looking forward to getting a hold of mine to get it going.

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