(Topic ID: 143800)

Williams Baseball Game Motor and Bat Assembly Information - Update April 2018


By SteveinTexas

4 years ago



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  • 24 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 51 days ago by KenLayton
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

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    Table 4 (resized).JPG
    IMG_9602_(resized).JPG
    IMG_7702_(resized).JPG
    1523221_10152164201768901_718918611_o.jpg
    RM_2nd.jpg
    49_Quarterback_BG.jpg
    49_Quarterback_with_running_man_on_backbox.jpg
    51_World_Series_1st_RM.jpg
    Vertical_RM.jpg
    RM_2nd.jpg
    50_RM_1st.jpg

    #1 4 years ago

    I have made some tables shown below to list the baseball games electro mechanical assemblies and units during the running man era. This is to help find substitute motors or workable replacement parts to get our games moving again. It has other general information that I picked up that may be useful about the games of the period. The motor tables are separated for 45/50 volt operating machines and 24/27 volt operating games. The other assembly tables are split the same only so it is comparable by game and year.

    The key for substitute motors for me is the gearing output RPM’s that needs to be approximately matched.

    The operation torque requirements dictate whether the motor coil is a standard or a heavy duty version. What this means if you substitute a smaller frame coil motor with the correct geared RPM's and voltage for a larger frame coil (heavy duty) motor it will work. This will probably mean the coil if played continuously may burn out eventually. However, we don’t usually play our games this way so the smaller coiled motors will last for a long time.

    The pitching and target motors had originally larger motor frame coils. So try to find a larger coil motor as a replacement if you can. If not the small frame coil will work is the message.

    The following three tables indicate the motors used in 45/50 volt and 24/27 volt games from 1951 thru 1973.
    Table 1 (resized).JPG
    Table 2 (resized).JPG
    Table 3 (resized).JPG
    The Bat lever; has changed four (4) times between 1951 and 1966. The final B-5625 bat lever mechanism was introduced on the 1958 Deluxe Short Stop and the base Hit 1967 was the last I believe. After this Williams went for a simple button idea. I like the levers better.

    The following tables indicate the different batting mechanisms on games during the running man era.
    Table 4 (resized).JPG
    Table 5 (resized).JPG
    Table 6 (resized).JPG
    With these tables I am able to substitute motors that will work in my pitching units and understand which parts I will need to find for the particular game I am restoring. I hope this information helps you as much as it helped me.

    #2 4 years ago

    Steve

    Absolutely fantastic compilation!! This will help the pitch and bat community substantially. Thanks for your effort!

    Mike V

    #3 4 years ago

    Don't forget Williams continued to make baseball games all the way through 1975 I believe. The "Line Drive" machine from the early 1970's was very popular.

    #4 4 years ago

    Upper Deck was their last Em Pitch and Bat, made in 1973.

    #5 4 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    Don't forget Williams continued to make baseball games all the way through 1975 I believe. The "Line Drive" machine from the early 1970's was very popular.

    Ken,

    Yup, I haven't forgotten just don't know enough to add. Happy to add to the lists anytime if others can provide some data.

    Quoted from AlexF:

    Upper Deck was their last Em Pitch and Bat, made in 1973.

    Alex,

    So Upper Deck was the last, do you know the first with the running man? I started with the first as we know it today but there were earlier versions I believe. Issue again is getting the info. The pitching unit was mechanical I understand.

    #6 4 years ago
    Quoted from SteveinTexas:

    Alex,
    So Upper Deck was the last, do you know the first with the running man? I started with the first as we know it today but there were earlier versions I believe. Issue again is getting the info. The pitching unit was mechanical I understand.

    Hmm, that's kind of a tricky one. You could give 1949 Williams Quarterback the title as first with a running man unit. But it's designed a bit differently. Maybe the first traditional baseball style would be 1951's Super World Series.

    #7 4 years ago

    Ah I was wrong. The first traditional running man unit was used in Double Header. A 1950 shuffle game (not a pin though).

    #8 4 years ago

    Pretty good Alex,

    Here some pics of the early games you mention

    50_RM_1st.jpg
    RM_2nd.jpg
    Vertical_RM.jpg

    #9 4 years ago

    Alex,

    The game that we saw the first bottom operated (5170 type that continued through the 60's) running man is on my list believe is the 51 Super World Series #47. I lifted these pic's from Clay Harrell's baseball page. That guy has probably forgotten more than I know. I believe that these pic's may have came from Herb Silvers workshop.

    Flipping heck, I won't show it but I noticed a freshly painted Major League with a faded back glass in the background of the All Stars picture above. I am sure due the uniquely incorrect colors used that it is one of the games that am restoring right now. What a small world.

    51_World_Series_1st_RM.jpg

    #10 4 years ago

    Hi Alex,

    The 49 Quarterback game has the running man on the screen. Never saw this one. That's the first running man!
    49_Quarterback_with_running_man_on_backbox.jpg
    49_Quarterback_BG.jpg

    I did not see the running men above the field on the 1950 double header shuffle game (pictured below) at first. Definitely the first baseball running man assembly . Guess it was a expensive version with the need for the wooden cantilevered box to house it. I can see why they went to the running man being actuated from the bottom in 51 with the Super World Series.

    RM_2nd.jpg

    It must have been fun in the R&D group. "OK well done with the Double Header arrangement but you did it wrong, we need it actuated from the bottom for a bat game. Hurry up we need it in 3 months so go go go..."That would have been my ideal job back in the day.

    #11 4 years ago

    Fun stuff! I think I need a 1949 Quarterback now. That thing looks cool.

    #12 4 years ago

    Heres the 52 Deluxe world series. As far i know it matches the 51 Super world series. Steve if you want me to check any details let me know.

    --Jeff

    1523221_10152164201768901_718918611_o.jpg

    #13 4 years ago

    Hi Jeff,

    Any motor reference and their rpm. Any batting unit or assembly reference numbers would be good. This is not easy as it sounds as they are usually not easily seen. If you ever overhaul a part that meets the above criteria it would be cool to know what is there. Also your opinion if it is an original part or a substitute.

    Amazing how these old parts are still going. The William's R&D guys were good designers and fast looking at the different variations they were developing and the closeness of the games roll out.

    2 weeks later
    #14 3 years ago

    To all baseball game guys & girls,

    Updated the motor tables as best I know thru 1973 for your information. If anyone can help me update the motor tables with more RPM's or notice something needing correction please PM me and I will correct.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

    Steve J.

    1 month later
    #15 3 years ago

    Base ball motors updated and a few errors fixed.

    Does anyone know the RPM of a 14A-7821 Pitching motor?

    It was used on a;
    66 Pitch and Bat,
    66 Big League,
    67 Base Hit,
    67 Score Board,
    68 Ball park,
    69 Fast Ball,
    70 Hit & Run,
    72 Line drive,
    73 Upper Deck.

    #16 3 years ago

    Steve, Have you been watching this guys auctions on EBAY? He has been throwing up a ton of P&B motors and nice casing pics with the specs on them. Couldnt find the particular one you were looking for tho.

    --Jeff

    ebay.com link » Williams Coin Operated Baseball 14a 7726a Ball Pitching Motor New Old Stock

    #17 3 years ago

    Yeh I have. Two great minds think alike! Ebay is where I get a bunch of info that I used including the details of the one you listed. That's one of the reasons I updated the list.

    I actually have bought a few from him. Not cheap but rare as Nos. The first motor was for a running man was wrong with 10 rpm not 20 and fits only one machine and not mine. That's the reason I made the lists as it was a expensive mistake. I got a pitching motor NOS for one of the games I am doing now, still chuffed about it.

    I asked Jimmy at PBR as they were listing a 14a-7821 for sale but he said it was gone.

    3 months later
    #18 3 years ago

    Thank you to Chris aka 'PinballAir' for giving me the RPMs for the elusive but frequently used 14A-7821 pitching motor. I updated the tables (see red font) and we have most of the information now. The RPMs are also in red so they stand out.
    We still need confirmation of;
    The 69 Fast Ball pitching motor 14A-7849 is a 20 RPM motor?
    The 57 Deluxe Baseball pitching motor 14A-7704 is a 17 RPM motor?
    I update the recommended ball size and a note to be aware of the coil rotor needs a separate rotor shaft and a spring to work in Williams games.
    I was able to replace a target and pitching motors very recently with similar RPM motors and they are working perfectly.

    Added over 4 years ago: (Edit meant 69 Fast Ball Running man not pitching motor)

    #19 3 years ago

    I am in the process of restoring a fast ball now. How would I be able to determine the RPM of the motor for you?

    IMG_7702_(resized).JPG

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from sagejr:

    I am in the process of restoring a fast ball now. How would I be able to determine the RPM of the motor for you?

    Usually the RPM is stamped into the motor case, either on the front or rear of it. This might require you to unbolt the motor from the machine to read it.

    #21 3 years ago

    I'm attaching a picture of the fast ball pitching motor frame assembly. Is it really 67 RPM? And part #7821?

    IMG_9602_(resized).JPG

    #22 3 years ago

    Yes it is correct for your game.

    1 year later
    #23 1 year ago

    All,

    I updated in 'red font' the baseball motor tables with information I or members found over the last year. I hope this helps in the restoration of these great games.

    Steve J.

    1 year later
    #24 51 days ago

    Thanks for posting this information.

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