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(Topic ID: 277244)

Williams ball count unit broken tooth


By Geofflove

46 days ago



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  • 23 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 44 days ago by Geofflove
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#1 46 days ago

I just started to give a Spanish Eyes the once over so see what needed doing as when I got it I noticed the ball count and match units weren’t moving smoothly when activating the plungers by hand. Match unit cleaned up fine. In doing the same to the ball count unit I’ve discovered the sprocket has a broken tooth on it. This means it will advance about 3 steps then stick. You can see the missing tooth top left in the pic.

I’m guessing there’s no real way to fix the broken sprocket so I’ll need a new one. Any ideas where? If anyone has one knocking around I’m happy to pay.

Thanks

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#2 46 days ago

A tooth can be formed by adding material by edge welding with a mig welder and filed back into shape. I have done many projects like this, just find a competent welder or practice on some scrap metal of similar thickness first.

#3 46 days ago

That "broken" tooth looks factory original, to keep the sprocket from turning past its intended last position.

#4 46 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

That "broken" tooth looks factory original, to keep the sprocket from turning past its intended last position.

I had wondered that myself after reading up a bit. However, it doesn’t seem to add up (literally!).....

With the unit fully reset so that the wheel post is opening the switch on the unit I can advance the unit 6 positions before encountering the broken tooth when it advances no more. The schematic shows 10 ball count lights so I’m guessing the unit should advance 10 steps?

#5 46 days ago

Just realised the oic might have caused confusion. The flat at about 9 o’clock in the picture is indeed meant to be there. The problem is the single damage tooth at about the 10.30 position. Can someone confirm this is indeed damage and not be design. I can’t see its design as explained above but would like to be sure before I ‘repair’ it!

#6 46 days ago
Quoted from Geofflove:

Just realised the oic might have caused confusion. The flat at about 9 o’clock in the picture is indeed meant to be there. The problem is the single damage tooth at about the 10.30 position. Can someone confirm this is indeed damage and not be design. I can’t see its design as explained above but would like to be sure before I ‘repair’ it!

The one your talking about at the 10:30 position definitely looks rounded off.

Can’t imagine that being normal.

#7 46 days ago
Quoted from Sea_Wolf:The one your talking about at the 10:30 position definitely looks rounded off.
Can’t imagine that being normal.

Thanks - I’m pretty sure it is. It’s make no sense to be stopping the unit at 6. I’ll have to look at doing a repair.

#8 46 days ago

If your willing to test out the possibility, move the mechanism by hand into the next position and see what happens.

#9 46 days ago

Yes I see it now. The rounded off tooth at 10:30 isn't original. Can you turn the sprocket 1/2 turn and use its other side?

#10 45 days ago

I’ve got this one that looks like a match

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

Mike V

#12 45 days ago
Quoted from RacingPin:

I’ve got this one that looks like a match
[quoted image][quoted image]
Mike V

Thanks Mike. Appreciated. Looks almost the same but the length of the shaft/thread look different.... what do you think.

You can also see the damaged tooth easier now it’s off the machine.

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#13 45 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Yes I see it now. The rounded off tooth at 10:30 isn't original. Can you turn the sprocket 1/2 turn and use its other side?

Unfortunately the wheel has 5 ‘holes’ in which means there no where to put the post at 180 degrees. I guess I could move it to nearby and then move the switch it hits to compensate.

I have a contact who is a clock repairer near me. I think I’ll see if he can repair the tooth as the first and easiest option. Will let you all know. Thanks for the help.

#14 45 days ago
Quoted from RustyRazor:

If your willing to test out the possibility, move the mechanism by hand into the next position and see what happens.

Sadly I can’t test anything properly as the rest of the machine is stowed until I clear some space. Once I’ve stencilled the other machine I’m working on I’ll be able to check things out properly.

#15 45 days ago
Quoted from Geofflove:

Unfortunately the wheel has 5 ‘holes’ in which means there no where to put the post at 180 degrees. I guess I could move it to nearby and then move the switch it hits to compensate.

Drill and tap a new hole in the replacement?

#16 45 days ago

I got another. What are measurements on the shaft?

image (resized).jpg

#17 45 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

That "broken" tooth looks factory original, to keep the sprocket from turning past its intended last position.

Nope. Not this time. I was expecting the same thing, but this one does look to have a worn tooth on the cogwheel. Incredible, because these damn things are made of some really tough stuff. I tried to drill a hole in one once, and every bit I had wouldn't make a dent. Steve Young told me you need a carbide bit to drill into them, because they are made of hardened steel. I thought I was drilling into Titanium!

#18 45 days ago
Quoted from gutz:

Drill and tap a new hole in the replacement?

You'll need a carbide bit to drill a hole in it.

#19 45 days ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Nope. Not this time. I was expecting the same thing, but this one does look to have a worn tooth on the cogwheel. Incredible, because these damn things are made of some really tough stuff. I tried to drill a hole in one once, and every bit I had wouldn't make a dent. Steve Young told me you need a carbide bit to drill into them, because they are made of hardened steel. I thought I was drilling into Titanium!

jrpinball didn't read my later post
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-ball-count-unit-broken-tooth#post-5848154

#20 45 days ago

Yeah, I did. You did eventually see the one that is obviously worn. I've never come across something like that before. Those ratchet wheels are made of tough stuff! In fact, I wasn't even trying to drill a completely new hole into one. I was trying to enlarge an existing hole in order to install a bolt and nut for the limit switches.

#21 44 days ago

If its that tough then i question that it was worn off. I had a machine that someone removed the credit mech. and in order to stop a counter from applying a credit, they purposely filed off a tooth. Since he can't get to work on the machine properly at the moment, he might not see the big picture. Maybe there is more to the story of the missing tooth.

#22 44 days ago
Quoted from RustyRazor:

If its that tough then i question that it was worn off. I had a machine that someone removed the credit mech. and in order to stop a counter from applying a credit, they purposely filed off a tooth. Since he can't get to work on the machine properly at the moment, he might not see the big picture. Maybe there is more to the story of the missing tooth.

Yes I did wonder if it had been done deliberately at some point. Maybe to ‘solve’ a problem elsewhere. The machine was set on replay rather than add a ball so I guess the fact that it didn’t go beyond 6 wouldn’t have been an issue on the that setting?

I’m hoping to get the machine set up in the next few days so will see what happens then I plug it in!

#23 44 days ago
Quoted from RacingPin:

I got another. What are measurements on the shaft?
[quoted image]

That looks more like it. Here’s the measurements, all in mm. Thanks.
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