(Topic ID: 140748)

Williams Aztec won't stop boot sequence

By Raikus

8 years ago



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#1 8 years ago

Having trouble with a Williams Aztec EM. On start button press it cycles through the correct steps -- including the bonus unit zero, then count up, then outhole kicker -- but the motor doesn't stop turning. It continues to cycle through bonus unit zero, bonus increase, outhole kicker, bonus unit zero, repeat. If bonus switches are hit while this is cycling it will increase the ball count until it trips the game over relay.
I've checked the bonus unit switches, the bonus count relay, and the outhole kicker relay. All are working properly with the correct open/closed switches. Anyone have any suggestions for me?

#2 8 years ago

Hi Raikus
I look at the schema in ipdb.org. The switches for the "Coil on Outhole-Relay" (and the coil) are 14-C / -D / -E. It is a bit complicated: Bonus-Ladder must be stepped down to Zero, then up one step and the Ball-Release-Coil must fire and the ball must leave the Outhole (so opening the Outhole-Switch).
You write "Checked Bonus-Unit Switches, Bonus (Count) Relay, Outhole (Kicker) Relay".

Did you check the "Switch depressed by the Ball laying in the Outhole (between the Flippers)" ?

The Outhole-Relay has a "Self-Hold-Switch" (schema-C-14). At some time (shortly after kicking the Ball over to the "Shooter Lane"): The Outhole-Relay shall loose its "Self-Hold-Current-Circuitry" (and therefore let go). A bit below and a bit to the left (in the schema) there is a line / wire and an arrow "to R-BR at C-3".
So I look at schema-C-3 and see: The wire R-BR has (to the left) a connection with "Score-Motor-fifth-Wheel-Switch-B (a Make and Brake-Switch) - HERE MUST OPEN so the "Self-Hold-Circuitry of Outhole-Relay will be cut".

Did You check Score-Motor-5B ?

Greetings Rolf

#3 8 years ago

When the game over relay trips, are there any points scored on player one? If so, then my best guess and most likely the problem is that you have a stuck playfield switch.

#4 8 years ago

Is this a game that you just picked up or have you had it for awhile? Check the switches in the coin door. They can cause weird things to happen if they are not gapped properly.

#5 8 years ago

Rolf: Thank you for that detailed walk through. I had the playfield both up and down while it was cycling (which opened the outhole switch). I'll look at that closer next time however and make sure. I also checked the 5B position because I read that far in the schematic and everything behaved properly. I didn't check the "self-hold-switch" so I'll definitely do that next. Thank you again!

Mikala: There was a stuck switch (C on the game) when I started working on it. That was causing the ball count to increase and eventually game over itself. Once fixed it would cycle without any ball increase.

Hi-Fi: I'm helping the owner fix it. He's had it for a while and they play it often. He said they had a big game going on it and the bonus was maxed out, the next game they started had the symptoms I'm trying to fix. I'll take a closer look at the coin door as well, but the switches looked fine on initial inspection.

Thank all of your for the help!

#6 8 years ago

I'm with Rolf on this one. The schematics are posted on IPDB. Haven't studied Williams schemas, but they are all somewhat similar. Looks like 5B is the most obvious culprit, but I would also check 'Index - D'.

Another question, Have you manually moved the score reels to check that they reset to 0?

#7 8 years ago

All reels reset to 0. No issues there.

#8 8 years ago

Hi Raikus
If SCM-5B opens correctly - If the "Self-Hold-Switch on Outhole-Relay" would be "faulty always closed (bent blades)": The Outhole-Relay would "flatter" (on -> off -> on -> off ...) because SCM-5B opens correctly (Outhole-Relay goes off) -> Score-Motor keeps on turning (wants to get to the end of its 180 degree-turn) - so SCM-5B closes again -> through the "faulty always closed Self-Hold-Switch on Outhole-Relay": current can flow -> Outhole-Relay goes "on" again. So look if the Outhole-Relay "flatters".

I am trying to avoid "digging into the logic of stepping down the Bonus Unit to Zero - then step up one step - and (by the way, by the way) kicking the ball over to the Shooter Lane" ...
You write (post-5): a friends pin - having a big party -> (question ?) NO REPLAYS ON THE COUNTER / NO COINS AT HAND TO THROW IN -> opening the Cash-Door and fumbling on the "Coin-Switch" (?)
Read here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm -> 2c. Before turning ... -> look at the first picture and -> read text after picture-3 -> "beeing romantic" ...

And in the schema at C-3 / C-4 there are ALL switches shown, the switches for to let the Score-Motor run. And at C-2 I see: Wire-yellow -> upwards through closed "Anti-Cheat Switch" upwards to "25 Cent-Switch (a Make and Brake Switch) -> to the right -> wire-Green-Orange -> through a "Switch on 25-Cent-RELAY" -> wire-Orange-Green -> ALSO feeding electricity to let the Score-Motor run.

If (if) your friends have fumbled at the Coin-Door-Switches and have bent blades on that delicate "25 Cent switch": 25-Cent-Relay might be pulling endlessly and through the switch on (pulling) 25-Cent-Relay -> Score-Motor runs. So this is the "background story" to Hi-Fi's tip. Greetings Rolf

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