Williams Aztec - Weak Pop Bumpers

(Topic ID: 231010)

Williams Aztec - Weak Pop Bumpers


By Chisel

12 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by Chisel
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 12 days ago

So I have this really nice, super clean Williams Aztec. All works well, except the pops seem a bit lazy. Some questions for you wizards...

1. What is the proper method to measure voltage at the pop coils. I'm guessing they could/should be read both at rest and engaged?
2. The bridge rectifier tests good with a DMM, and they pretty much work or they don't correct? They don't get weak?
3. The 1uf 200v poly cap after the bridge, does it need replaced as the electrolytic caps do?
4. Any places to check other than the spoon switches, the tilt relay and the game over relay for good contact and voltage flow?

Thanks guys.

aztec (resized).jpg
#2 12 days ago

Have you ever taken them apart and cleaned them/rebuild them? When I did that to my Fun-Fest they were much more livelier.

#3 12 days ago

Rebuild the pop bumpers. At the very least clean the assembly and replace the coil sleeves. Check the EOS switch on the pop as well.

If they're working, then you're probably getting the right amount of power. But for your own edification, put your multimeter to DC voltage and put one lead to ground and probe the lugs on the coil with the other lead. Go ahead and measure the resistance across the coil as well, it should be around 4 ohms.

#4 12 days ago

Can't hurt to replace the bridge. Usually they're fine but I have had ems with weak pops where replacing the bridge fixed it.

Rebuild can't hurt. Gap the switch as close as possible without machine gunning.

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Check the EOS switch on the pop as well.

There's no eos

#5 12 days ago

Yep, the pops (the whole machine) have been rebuilt. No slop, no burs on plunger, plungers polished and new sleeves. Switches are filed with a points file and are flat and shiny with a very tiny gap. I have some bridges I can try.

What about the cap across the dc output of the bridge? They go bad?

A5BE4474-BFD5-40BF-B603-6B072806FBEE (resized).jpeg

#6 12 days ago

Yea,cleaning the game over the tilt relay and reset switches they connect the one wire off the bridge. also check the 10 amp fuse make sure its clean and the fuse holder.

Check the diode across the coil
The way you can make them stronger is to measure the resistance in ohms across the coil with the wires off and then find a coil that is the same size so it fits with 1/2 less in ohms .5
Another way you can take the paper off the coil carefully with a razor blade and slip it under the edge to reuse the paper then find the outer wire and unwind the wire from the coil to lower the ohms i wont go more than .4 or .5 ohms less. Try one coil and see if its the strength you like.
Then feed it back through the hole sand the enamel off the wire so you can solder it to the lug

#7 11 days ago
Quoted from northstar-:

The way you can make them stronger is to measure the resistance in ohms across the coil with the wires off and then find a coil that is the same size so it fits with 1/2 less in ohms .5
Another way you can take the paper off the coil carefully with a razor blade and slip it under the edge to reuse the paper then find the outer wire and unwind the wire from the coil to lower the ohms i wont go more than .4 or .5 ohms less. Try one coil and see if its the strength you like.

This really shouldn't be needed on Williams DC pops. They're usually crazy strong

#8 11 days ago

There are three pops in this machine. Are they all equally "weak"? if so, you can almost rule out anything mechanical with the pops and the switches related. start with your bridge and capacitor idea. And yes, capacitors do go bad with age.

If not all three pops are weak, then check the spoon switch for proper sensitivity when the skirt is hit. Also check for clean and strong contact of eos switch.

To test or identify which switches may need work, Turn out the lights and start a game. Remove the ball and prop playfield up. Manually trigger the pops by touching the skirt and look for sparks at the pop switches under playfield. Bigger sparks mean dirty or misadjusted switches.

#9 10 days ago

Hey Chisel,
Nice looking game!
Any changes with the pops?? Voltage going into the bridge can be measured on the Yel and Red wires, the ones not connected to the cap.
That would be your input voltage from the transformer 24VAC than you can ckeck the out put voltage from the bridge ???VDC

#10 9 days ago

YES, most definitely, a bridge rectifier can get weak. Had that happen in a Williams Swinger once. In my case, one leg of the device had burned out, so I was only getting every other peak in the sine wave.

#11 8 days ago
Quoted from northstar-:

Hey Chisel,
Nice looking game!
Any changes with the pops?? Voltage going into the bridge can be measured on the Yel and Red wires, the ones not connected to the cap.
That would be your input voltage from the transformer 24VAC than you can ckeck the out put voltage from the bridge ???VDC

Thanks, I actually bought it from a co-worker that says she got it for Christmas one year maybe around 1979 and it's been in her mothers finished, climate controlled basement ever since. No PF wear at all. One or two small chips but that's it. It's a cream puff.

So I measured the AC going in at 28V and the DC coming out at 40.5V... What about the tiny orange wire going to the fuse that feeds the pops? Could that small wire be limiting current, at least under load? I'm also going to order a new 1uf cap too... Tried a new bridge with no change as well.

#12 7 days ago

Are the slingshot kickers weak also?

According to the schematic, the slings are wired to the exact same DC voltage output as the jet bumpers.

If the slings are weak too, then the problem must lie in the bridge rectifier, the cap, or the fuse and wiring.

If the slings are not weak, then look back to the jet bumpers. Perhaps the rebuild kit parts were not the proper ones, or maybe they were all put back together incorrectly?

Are the jet bumper coils all marked G-23-750 dc?

#13 7 days ago

Seems like with the Williams Pops I have rebuilt it takes 100 or so plays and they smooth out to be faster.

#14 7 days ago

There is another item in the power chain - the 10 amp fuse. Make sure the holder is tight on the fuse and might even want to swap the fuse - I've had some that have blown, yet short and have kind of an intermittent behavior. Other thing is to clean and adjust your pop switches (activation not scoring)

#15 7 days ago

The wire looks like 18 gauge that should be fine,
Is the wire on the other side of the bridge the same size?
You can step it up to 16 gauge.

The other thing is the yokes , they attach to the pop bumper plunger did you replace the metal ones with flat metal, because some of the metal yokes are made with a support in the back of them and they hit the top of the bracket not giving the ring a good pop,they need to be ground down so the plunger hits the coil stop before the yoke does,if this is the case.

The other issue is they might worn with play between them and the plunger you can flip the bakelight upside down.
The springs are important to you can stretch them the length of the coil.
I saw you mention you rebuilt them so I figured Id bring this up just in case

If you want to cheat just use silicon on a rag and wipe down the skirt and ring and playfield around the pop bumper.

#16 5 days ago

What is the part number for this BR?
I have a 74 Williams with 16 volts DC coming out of the BR and at the pops/slings which do not work. Im guessing I need to replace the BR and Cap. I have to order some things from marcos but not sure which BR to get...

#17 5 days ago

Any BR that can handle 50V, 20A or more is fine.

#18 4 days ago

Heading to a wrestling tournament, I'll check my pop coil numbers and give an update later this weekend.

Thanks everyone!

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