(Topic ID: 267505)

Williams Aztec: Bumper light issue

By The_Great_Man

3 years ago


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    #1 3 years ago

    Once again I am asking for help with an electrical issue on my Williams Aztec.

    On the playfield there are 10 Bonus lights that go from 5,000 to 50,000. There are 3 Bumpers - 2 in the top row and 1 below those 2 (The Bumper lights alternate/change based on a side slingshot...top 2 go on then the bottom 1 goes on). There is an Extra Ball light between the Bumpers and the Bonus lights.

    When the 50,000 Bonus Light is on and the Extra Ball light is lit - the bottom Bumper light goes out and will not go on. The top 2 Bumper lights will still work. All the other lights seem to work just fine and these 3 lights work fine unless they are all on together. I have looked and can not see a connection between these 3 lights. Does anyone have an idea as to what could be causing that Bumper light to not work when the other 2 lights are on. The Bumper light works fine when all the other 9 Bonus lights are lit when the Extra Ball light is on.

    I am including a picture of the bottom of the playfield showing these 3 lights. Thanks for your help.

    IMG_2479 (resized).JPGIMG_2479 (resized).JPG
    #2 3 years ago

    When 10 points is scored, a 10 pt relay switch will close and send power to the No Match Step Up solenoid and the No Match Alternating switch will close and open Then power will be sent to the Change Relay coil. A make/break switch on the Change Relay will open/close to alternate power on the left/right jet bumper lamps and the center jet bumper lamp. Power to the Change Relay switch is provided through the bonus unit.

    Check the bonus unit to see if the rotating switches that provide 6 volt power are fully advancing to the final contact rivets on the bonus unit stepper. The 6 volt power would move from the bonus unit using the red/yellow wire and red/blue wire.

    #3 3 years ago

    I have a little more information. I checked the Bonus unit and all the "arms" seem to be hitting the appropriate rivets at the proper time. And all of the wires seem to be connected and do not touch anything improperly.

    When the 50,000 Bonus light is on and the Extra Ball light is on and the bottom Bumper light should be on:

    1. When the bottom Bumper should be lit signifying 1,000 points (the Bumper does score the appropriate 1,000 points instead of 100 when the other Bumpers are lit) but the bottom Bumper light does not go on; and
    2. The rest of the GI playfield lights seem to dim a little bit; and
    3. The Special When Lit red light on the left side does not go on but the socket gets pretty hot; and
    4. The Special When Lit red light on the right side works properly - these 2 SWL lights alternate when the flipper slingshots get hit.

    Still trying to figure out how these are all connected.

    #4 3 years ago

    When the middle pop bumper lamp is off and is scoring 1000, are the left/right pop bumper lamps on or off?

    1. The change relay alternates 6 volt power between the middle pop bumper and the left/right pop bumper. Check the two switches on the change relay with the red/yellow wire and yellow wire | red/blue wire and yellow wire. Clean and adjust switches; look for shorting wires at the switch stack lugs.
    2. Check the 6 volt circuit fuses and fuse blocks (green/yellow white wire and blue wire | green/yellow white wire and brown wire); make sure all the Jones plugs that are connected to the playfield and backbox are clean.
    3. Check if there is 6 volt power at the lamp socket with a multimeter; possible faulty lamp socket?

    Also, check the following switches on the setup relay that control power to the special when lit lamps:

    Setup relay switch - orange/red wire and red/brown wire
    Setup relay switch - brown/red wire and green/white wire

    #5 3 years ago
    Quoted from fredsmythson:

    When the middle pop bumper lamp is off and is scoring 1000, are the left/right pop bumper lamps on or off?
    1. The change relay alternates 6 volt power between the middle pop bumper and the left/right pop bumper. Check the two switches on the change relay with the red/yellow wire and yellow wire | red/blue wire and yellow wire. Clean and adjust switches; look for shorting wires at the switch stack lugs.
    2. Check the 6 volt circuit fuses and fuse blocks (green/yellow white wire and blue wire | green/yellow white wire and brown wire); make sure all the Jones plugs that are connected to the playfield and backbox are clean.
    3. Check if there is 6 volt power at the lamp socket with a multimeter; possible faulty lamp socket?
    Also, check the following switches on the setup relay that control power to the special when lit lamps:
    Setup relay switch - orange/red wire and red/brown wire
    Setup relay switch - brown/red wire and green/white wire

    When the middle Bumper is scoring 1,000 points - the 2 Bumpers above have the lamps off and those Bumpers score 100 points when the middle bumper light is on. I have looked and the socket for the Special When Lit on the left side appears to be rusted on the bottom. I will be replacing this socket when I get the new part. Could this be causing the other lights to not work?
    Last night I checked the switches on the Set-Up relay and they all appear to be ok. I will check the voltage today. Thank you.

    #6 3 years ago

    When the center pop bumper is scoring 1000 points, the change relay switch with the red/yellow wire should be closed.

    A faulty lamp socket could cause problems with the 6 volt circuits. To test the suspect lamp socket, you can disconnect the power wire from the lamp socket and see if this will affect the 6 volt circuits when you're playing a game.

    #7 3 years ago

    Good news and bad news.

    Good news - I disconnected the faulty bulb socket on the Special When Lit light and now the Bumper light goes on when it should and the lights do not dim. Thank you for the advice.

    Bad news - Somehow I did something and now the Ball Count Unit Step Up Coil on the Ball Count Unit Disc will not energize and advance the Ball number on the game (So the game is always on Ball 1). I thought it would energize by the Make & Break Switch on the Outhole relay which - I think - closes to activate the Ball Release Coil and the Ball Count Step Up Coil. Unfortunately, the Ball Release Coil does activate but the Ball Count Step Up Coil does not activate. Clearly energy is going from that switch to the Ball Release Coil as it should but it is not going to the Ball Count Step Up Coil. Does it sound like a wire is loose? Or is there some other reason this Coil is not energizing? Anyone have any thoughts?

    #8 3 years ago

    OK. So I fiddled around with the Manual and the Schematics as best as I could - which is at beginners level at best - And I determined that the only switches that activated the Ball Count Step Up Coil were working. I then tracked it down to a Red/Yellow wire connected to the coil. Followed this wire back to the Jack Layout - #1. Took out the Jons Plug and cleaned it a little and pushed it a little and pressed it a little and put it back in. Then I followed that wire to the Player Unit Disc and I moved that Red/Yellow wire a little and pressed it a little and pushed it a little. Put the game back on and the whole thing works. Did I fix it?
    I feel like the guy on the skit Who's on First: "Now You Have It" "I don't even know what I'm talking about!!!"

    #9 3 years ago

    If it works, then it should be fine "temporarily." It might have been a dirty Jones plug issue. But, it sounds like the wire to the disc contact rivet is loose. You might want to resolder the connection at the disc contact rivet to make sure the wire is connected properly to the contact rivet.

    #10 3 years ago

    Thanks for your help. That wire on the Disc is kind of hard to get to but I will definitely try to resolder it. The Jones plug looked pretty good but the pin that was in question was a little loose.

    #11 3 years ago

    So I played about 30 games on the machine today and it worked fine. Then the Ball Count started not working again. Up until 1:30 am adjusting the Jones plug and resoldering the Red/Yellow wire - that I think provides power to the Ball Count Step Up Coil - to the disc contact rivet on the Player Unit Disc. I did not have the mental strength to try the machine tonight so I will see if I did anything good tomorrow morning.

    #12 3 years ago

    If you're wondering if a circuit connection is good, you can always use a jumper wire. Connect the jumper wire to the ball count step up solenoid wire lug - red/white wire - or contact rivet and connect the other end of the jumper wire to different switches in the circuit. For example, you could connect the jumper wire to score motor switch 1C - blue/red wire - to bypass the coin unit and the Jones plug.

    #13 3 years ago

    Got up this morning. Used my alligator clips to check the Ball Count Step Up coil - It was working. Put the game back together. Cleaned the contacts on all the Stepper Units. Started the game and it works great.....For now. I will assume this problem has been resolved.
    Thank you for your help.

    #14 3 years ago

    Thought I would end this by saying what I learned from this problem so maybe it will help someone else.

    As a beginner electronic person I always thought that the coils had an active side and a neutral side. Meaning that I thought that one side was always connected through to the power - kind of like a ground wire on house wiring - and the other side had a switch or 2 that turned the coil on. So I thought I only had to follow one line through to the coil. Turns out I am very wrong. Both sides of the coils are active and can be on or off at any given time. In this case, one side of the coil was activated - meaning that side of the circuit was closed - through the Jones plug and then through the Player Disc Unit. The other side of the coil was activated by a certain switch on the Ball Index relay. So bottom line is I learned that when you are trying to figure out what is the problem with a coil - You need to follow both lines/sides from the coil to make sure everything is working. Probably sounds simple to pinball experts - But to me it was a real awakening.

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