New owner of BMHouze's AP here.

The wife keeps beating her own records, she's up to 1.4 million now. I'm around 800k.

Had a couple loose connections on the machine and had a tungsten contact fall off the outer right EOS switch which I soldered back on until the new switch comes in.

The other biggie that helped the machine out was using my new Elegoo Mars to print some new drop target guides as half the originals were beat.

Note to anyone printing these. You're going to want to print all 6 if you use the thingiverse files. The screw offsets are slightly different from the original. It doesn't affect performance but you can't mix new and old. Also if you're using a resin printer like I did, I would recommend tapping the holes prior to letting the parts cure fully.

BMHouze I'll let you know when I get the rec room finished and you can give your old AP a spin.

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DSC_0357 (resized).JPG

jahbarron It could just be my computer but that link doesn't seem to work (using Firefox at least)

I have a question that maybe everyone her can help me out with. This past week the machine has started having some lights stuck on most of the time (the 5x multiplier and the right side joker). Can someone give me some ideas on how I troubleshoot this kind of issue? I lifted up the playfield a couple times to try and get the drop targets adjusted better and around the same time is when I noticed these lights staying stuck on.

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Yeah, the 3D print files you can find online for these are ever so slightly different in size and they don't work properly with a mix of originals.

I'm still trying to fine tune mine but they're doing fairly well now. From what I can tell, it's mostly a balancing act. If you have too much tension between your horse shoes and the PCB behind you'll get sticky targets. If you go too little tension you'll get drops of the target that don't register which really messes up how this game performs.

On a side note, I'm still trying to figure out that right joker always being dimly lit issue. Any chance someone with some better electronics skills than myself could provide some input? The diode for it on the matrix doesn't seem to be shorted.

Row 4 on the matrix seems to be having some other odd items pop up. The advance royal flush arrow insert behaves as it should at the start of the game. If i trip some of the drop targets in the incorrect order, this arrow shaped insert blinks to let you know the lower left ace will bring the drop target bonus back up. it does this correctly. The part that I'm pretty sure is wrong though is if I trip that ace switch a bunch of times to get the drop target bonus back up to full, should this light not go off? Instead it just stays lit (not blinking) and I'd say it's also around 50% brightness.

The other observation is that the only time the right joker turns off completely is during the game start sequence. During the sequence, coil 21 (drop target release) fires to bring all the targets down. During this the joker turns off for about 2 seconds and then goes back on once the 5 drop target reset coils do their sequence.

Thoughts anyone? I did an order from Marco which included a lamp matrix tester so maybe that will help some... But I could really use some tips on what to look for. Some have said on other forums that it's the LED's ghosting but... it's had LED's all along and the issue is new. I'm kind of thinking maybe that drop target release coil is doing something but I don't see anything shorted near it.

P.S. If anyone needs some of those target guides 3D printed, I can see about making you some if you don't know anyone local with a printer.

Clothes fit in totes underneath pins pretty well... Just saying...

So after the inconsistent contacts on the drop targets I got discoraged with the game and told it to get out.

...Or I ordered the NMP-5 kit, a new mirrored backglass, drop targets/decals. New backglass looks not bad. Original woudl be better if it weren't flaked to death but the new one is plenty good even if the mirroring isn't the best.

Also, anyone looking to put in new drop targets. Places like Marco sells both the T and L base drop targets. Make sure you get the right ones. I ordered from Ministry of pinball where they didn't specify and I got the L's when the machine is supposed to use the T base. Only found out after I had put the stickers on and rebuilt the entire assembly. Ooops.

Once that was fixed and the stickers seem to be fine getting peeled off once and applied to my original targets.

My first impression of the NMP-5 circuit board: It solves the problem of the horseshoes making bad connections. Every single hit is registering fine.

The problem: I'm getting some false hits. When a new ball starts I'll sometimes get the downard tone from hitting a target out of sequence even thoug the ball ins't in play yet. The code seems to be smart enough to know that though and despite it doing the soudn effect it (usually, but not always) keeps the score at 0 and doens't knock off any of the bonus scores for the royal flush. Anyone have some ideas on how to resolve that? I'm wondering if the AP drop target assembly with those 5 coils in a row are maybe confusing the sensor when they reset? That or maybe I have some wire harnesses too close?

The bigger problem though is actually the removal of the horseshoes. With them gone there is nothing to slightly push the drop targets forwards to hold in place. The net result is targets that are VERY sensitive. nudge the machine hard enough even and one or two might drop which is no good. Has anyone found a good solution for that? I feel like there needs to be some sort of spring in place to keep some forward force on the targets. But I'm guessing putthing the horseshoes back in place purely for the springing component would be no good, it would probably wear out the surface of the NMP-5 pcb.

All in all... fixed one very bad problem but created a couple new ones...

Yeah I wasn't looking closely at the base or the ledge the first time I rebuilt the assembly with the NMP board. With the new 'L' base targets I put on the game wasn't playable, they wouldn't stay up. That's when I noticed the original 'T' base targets the machine had on it were different. Switched it back to them and now the game plays, although you can give the machine a nudge and that's enough to drop a target or two now.

Could anyone else with an AP weigh in on if their machine appears to be original drop targets and if they are the 'L' or 'T' base? oldschoolbob I circled back to Vid's review of the NMP board and it was mentioned that the 'T' base seemed to be more common on single drop targets. I wonder if maybe Alien Pokers got the 'T' base as well since each drop is individually controlled so the assembly is 5 single targets all side by side so to speak?

oldschoolbob I think you could be right in looking at the springs. Like you said, mostly downward pull with some partial forward pull. That forward pull is definitely aided by the horseshoes though originally. I think in my case, maybe the springs themselves have lost some tension compared to new and with the horseshoes gone it's just not enough to keep the drops forward enough to latch. Next time I make a Marco order I'll get some new springs and see what that does. They just released Jungle Lord plastics so I might burn a hole in my wallet sooner rather than later. I've got another idea to try in the meantime too. Will update if it works well.

The NMP's definitely register the hits good every time. I'm still not sold on their tension right out of the box though. The remaining downward pull springs at least on my machine are iffy at best for the needed forward tension to hold the drops in place upon reset since the horseshoes are gone.

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I've been dabbling with these a little bit and done a few prototypes. PLA is no good, it doesn't have the needed flex but PETG seems to work well. I still need to cut back the thickness and/or width of the 'spring' to get it where I want before I make a full set and try it in the machine itself. The underside doubles as a magnet holder in case the glue lets up.

Was also toying with the idea of just using the base magent holder with no printed 'spring' portion and instead putting the horseshoes back on purely for tension. I have some Copper trace tape that I was thinking of placing along the back of the NMP board rather than have horseshoe friction on the back of the unclad PCB itself.

Also, I'm still trying to confirm if AP is supposed to use the L or T base drops. The previous owner of my machine feels the T's are factory and I would say I agree. However I've seen a couple forum posts that suggest this might not be the case. can someone else with an AP please confirm what they have on theirs?

So I rebuilt the drop target assembly a third time with the NMP sensors. First was with L base drops, second with T base drops. Neither of those times was the game playable. The third attempt was T base and some brand spanking new springs. I also cleaned up the metal assembly itself. A previous tech had decided to use hot glue to hold old cracked target guides together along with all the springs to the bracket (including over the screw itself on the back of the original drop targets).

Third time around. The results were better but the game still wasn't playable. This time only the queen would fail to reset properly and just do the continual thunk thunk thunk and a blown coil fuse before I could turn the machine off.

I kept the assembly on the machine and started playing around with all the moving parts trying to figure out why 4 were fine and 1 refused to work and what was different with that queen.

From what I could tell, The 'L' base targets with the larger ledge also means that the curved part of the target guides push it back slightly further before the springs pull it back foward at the very top. I believe from an engineering standpoint, Williams may have also utilized the 'T' base as a means to prevent the top of the targets from tilting so far back as well.

That's when I realized that the coil sleeve for the queen was a short one whereas all the others utilized 2 1/16" sleeves. With the shorter sleeve, the queen had too much play in it and that had it tending to stay tilted backwards from the ledge contacting the target guide.

Last night I did a 4th attempt, this time with brand new 2 1/16" coil sleeves all around. The machines drop targets are now working the best they ever have in my time owning it. No more drops going down that don't register. And in probably 10 or so 2 player games I think we had one single case of a target not latching correctly on the first attempt. I will say this, it really changes how you approach those drop targets. You need to be very deliberate in what target you're aiming at now because even glancing one you didn't want to hit yet is a good chance it'll go down.

My recommendation for anyone looking to put the NMP sensors on their AP. I would recommend brand new springs, brand new 2 1/16" coil sleeves and make sure your target guides have a good edge where they latch at the top to the targets ledge.

oldschoolbob I wonder if you did a rev.2 of the NMP-5 if a modification could be made to give the installer two options.
1) Remove the horeshoes altogether, essentially the same as the current board.
2) Also on the backside of the board, keep a copper track, exactly where there was a copper track on the originals for the horseshoes. I believe one of the horseshoe arms is directly in the way of one of the sensors through hole solder points so it would need to be cut off and no copper track on that side. But if the other arm was left on the horseshoe, and there was a copper track on the board for it to run along to prevent wear on the glass/resin of the board itself.... This would give some additional forward pushing tension, making the targets slightly harder to drop, but not so hard as from factory. (might not be possible though with copper being so close to the sensors, I don't know. Copper isn't ferrous but still might trick it?) If there was even one arm of a horseshoe still in there it would make the target less reliant on the coil sleeves for being pushed forward upon reset.

So I've been dabbling a little bit.

Cool or not cool? Legible enough? (I think the bottom of the instruction card might need a bit more colour pulled out of the table in the background. Jpegs on pinside are losing some resolution too so the text is lost there compared to the original.)

Alien Poker Information Rev 1 (resized).jpg

Alien Poker Instructions Rev 1 (resized).jpg

I finally got the drop targets running perfect on your old machine. In the end I tried the copper cladding as a slider on the back of the NMP and a single layer of horseshoe for some much needed tension. In my opinion AP needs this with NMP sensors.

I currently have some Wolffpac displays on order for my Jungle Lord. If I'm happy with them, next upgrade for the AP will be a set of those too. Anyone got an opinion on the best looking colour to use for displays on AP?

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I got mine from Ministry of Pinball and it had a mirrored finish. Not as good as factory mirror but way better than flaking original.

Thanks for sharing the pic! Blue is what I was thinking of going with personally but the wife said she typically has a hard time seeing blue LEDs compared to other colours. In person, how do you feel about the visibility of the blue?

So I started getting a new issue with the AP out of the blue.

Game plays perfect. I'm getting voice and sounds. But... they're all the wrong ones. Rip the spinner and it plays the sound for draining the ball. The speech phrases aren't the correct ones, seems to favor saying 'royal flush'. Also the background wubwubwub is missing.

Any suggestions on the culprit? I didn't change or move anything, the issue started just from the game sitting. ROM gone bad? Or is there there something else on the boards that would be a more likely culprit for the wrong sounds being played?

I think it was Todd at TNT that said it one time. Regarding Gorgar he mentioned that speech on the machine was an option that cost an extra $50 or something back then. But absolutely everyone opted in for the speech because it brought in the quarters.

Alien Poker isn't much newer than Gorgar, I wonder if it was also an option in this case and that's why that sound board is missing the header.

Kouhout makes both the sound and speech boards for this machine.

I was never able to get your Jungle Lord ROM's to work in my game unfortunately. Am interested to see where you go in the end with Alien Poker. I feel like the soul of this game is all about being accurate in your shots, slow and steady. Timer on the flush I'm not sure sounds like what I would go for. But maybe the evil joker concept could work well into the whole shoot at very specific things or bad things happen concept. Maybe something like if you have a 2x flush multiplier, one joker is bad, 3x multiplier, 2 jokers are bad and 4x multiplier 3 jokers are bad?

I've never really looked into it because I'm not sure it fits the soul of the game, but others have added a 2 ball multiball to the game. I wonder if you could dream up some way to make that work. Maybe the multiball has to do with your evil joker bringing in a chaotic element to the game, making scoring those exact targets you want much harder, but if you can do it, you get more points? Lot's you could do I bet.