(Topic ID: 220317)

Williams Action Baseball won't start a game

By Action53

5 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Action53
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#1 5 years ago

When I first got it, it don't do anything. I replaced the burned out lock coil and the burned out score coil and now it does like it does in the video. The noise is the, out unit, strike unit and extra innings unit (red) and the mixer unit (blue) rotating in time to the score reset coil in the head. The big crazy switch thing to the right of the red circle also spins non stop, if you unplug the game at the right spot when you plug it back in it'll spin to the same spot and then stop. It doesn't do like in the video until you coin it up

I'm more of an arcade guy, this is my first em. The charm of em stuff is growing on me though.

I think I need to go through the score reels in the head, give em a good cleaning.

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Edit:

I got it in a trade from another arcade collector, I'm not sure about before that. It doesn't look like any work was ever done to it before I started on it. By the amount of dust and dirt dauber nests in it, I'd say it's been sitting in a shed for a while. It smells like dusty old church with a hint of old books.

My soldering skills are pretty good and I have a good iron, meter and desoldering station. I also have a good understanding of basic electronics

Second edit: (sorry)

The thing circled yellow spins non stop, not the thing next to the red circle

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#2 5 years ago

Likely your 0 pos. sw. on both. Read more here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#reels

#3 5 years ago

I cleaned all four score wheels and the "grand slam" wheel per the website you posted, no change. I made sure the zero position switches and the nines switches were all operating correctly. I found a broken wire on the ones score reel on player two and repaired it, no change.

I did notice that the thing circled green twitches while it's doing what it does in the video. There's no label on the assembly so I'm not sure what it's for.

I thought maybe the burnt the hell up looking coil on the replay unit might be part of my problem but I can't quite figure out how to get it on free play.

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#4 5 years ago

Not sure which stepper unit that is with the circled green coil, but check down for cleaning/adjusting steppers on Clay's site: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1

Check for stuck playfield switches as to why the reels and score motor (circled in yellow above) keep running.

#5 5 years ago

Double checked all the score reels, all good. They reset back to zero and stop.

Removed the playfied completely, cleaned the contacts on the score reset coil, no change. Thing circled yellow still spins non stop, score reset coil steadily clicks on and off, thing circled green twitches. If you unplug it mid cycle and then plug it back in the thing circled yellow will spin back to the home position and then stop. It doesn't get stuck in the reset cycle until you coin it up/hit the start button.

Set it to free play, unplugged the coin door, no change. I did notice that when you hit the start button the lock coil engages and the second coin relay and the out relay twitch while it's stuck in the loop.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from Action53:

Thing circled yellow still spins non stop

That's the Control Motor. (It's usually called a Score Motor in a pinball machine, but for some reason it's called a Control Motor here.) There's a schematic on ipdb.org that will help sort this out. Here's part of the schematic for the Control Motor:
Action Baseball controll motor (resized).jpgAction Baseball controll motor (resized).jpg
The Control Motor turns when any of the switches in the red boxes close. To figure out why your Control Motor keeps turning you'll need to figure out which of these switches is closed. Keep in mind that they could close because the relay or motor that controls them is firing, or because they're stuck closed, or there's a short, etc.

First check if any of the relays that control those switches is firing while the Control Motor is turning: Start relay, Out relay, 3rd Out relay, 25 cent relay and 10 cent relay. If the labels on your relays are missing you'll have to use the wire colors on the schematic to find the relays in your game.

If none of those relays are firing, check the switches to see if any are stuck closed. You could stick a piece of folded paper between the contacts of all 6 switches to see if that stops the motor. Then pull the paper out one by one to see which one starts the motor.

The CM '0' switch in the red box is the top switch on the switch stack on the Index cam on the Control Motor closest to the motor itself. That's the switch that keeps the Control Motor turning until it reaches the home position where it should open and let the motor stop unless one of the other switches is closed too in which case the motor keeps going.

/Mark

#7 5 years ago

I found a schematic and printed it out, hopefully that'll help me out.

If anyone needs a better quality copy, pm me your email and I'll send it to you

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#8 5 years ago

I push the start button and the start relay turns on and stays on. The 2nd coin relay and the out relay turn on, latch and stay that way while twitching in beat to the control motor. The 25 cent, 10 cent and third out relay don't move at all.

All the switches in the control motor cams look to be in proper adjustment, they make and break contact as expected when I manually turn it and watch

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Action53:

I push the start button and the start relay turns on and stays on.

That's enough to keep the Control Motor running. Next, figure out why the Start relay isn't relaxing.
Action Baseball Start relay (resized).jpgAction Baseball Start relay (resized).jpg
The Start relay switch on the lower path in red is probably closed since the Start relay is active. Is the Game Over relay switch stuck closed or is the Game Over relay tripped?

#10 5 years ago

The game over relay isn't stuck closed, it doesn't do anything when I try to start a game. If I manually latch it then start a game it unlatches itself. I'll check the switches when I have more time

#11 5 years ago

Here's some pics that may or may not be helpful, let me know if you need clarification, different pics or different angles

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#12 5 years ago

Please read reply #9 again carefully. If your Start relay is stuck on (and making your score motor run) you need to figure out why. The Make/Break switch on the Game Over relay (in red on the schematic in reply #9) could be stuck closed and keeping the Start relay on. The state of the Game Over doesn't really help until you can verify that the switch on it that keeps the Start relay on can open.

If you move the Game Over relay back and forth while the Start relay is on, can you get the Start relay to let go?

#13 5 years ago

Sorry, while it's stuck in the loop I can trigger the game over relay and it'll stop and light up the first inning light. Then when I hit pitch, it'll spit a ball out and I can swing the bat. If I keep doing that I can manually make it score on the reels and it'll ding when I get a run.

Could the game over coil be bad? I happen to have a brand new one that I accidentally ordered a new one twice for another coil I replaced with the same numbers

#14 5 years ago

I got excited and replaced the coil anyway, still stuck in the loop but will still start and play fine if I manually trigger the game over relay

#15 5 years ago

I just noticed that after the third out the game over light doesn't come back on, it's on when you first plug it in. After the third out it acts the the game is over, no pitches, no bat and if you hit start the game goes back into the loop but still no game over light

#16 5 years ago

Yeah, coils rarely go bad unless they've been overheated. But we're making progress working back from the running Score Motor. The Score Motor runs because the Start relay is on. The Start relay stays on because the Game Over relay keeps it on. Now we need to sort out why the Game Over relay won't toggle when you start a new game.
Action Baseball Game Over Latch relay (resized).jpgAction Baseball Game Over Latch relay (resized).jpg
Since you can manually toggle the Game Over (interlocking) relay and get the Start relay to let go, let's assume that the switch is working and look at why the relay isn't behaving correctly. The switch in question is a Make/Break switch inside the red box above.

The schematic says that it is drawn with the interlock relays in the latch (not the trip) position, and in that position the switch to the Start relay is open. Since yours is closed I think that the Game Over relay is stuck in the tripped position. So we need to sort out why it won't go back to the latched position.

The circuit for the Game Over relay latch is shown above. For it to fire at the start of a new game six different switches all need to close. Starting from the left side those switches are:
- Inn Unit 0 position: closed only when the Inning Unit is at 0 innings, open otherwise
- 1st 1 PT DU 0 MK - a switch on the 1st player 1 point score reel that closes only when the score reel shows a zero
- 1st 10 PT DU 0 MK - a switch on the 1st player 10 point score reel that closes only when the score reel shows a zero
- 2nd 1 PT DU 0 MK - same as above for player 2
- 2nd 10 PT DU 0 MK - same as above for player 2
- CM5 - a switch on the bottom of the switch stack on Control Motor on cam #5 (sixth cam from the motor itself)

Somewhere between the Yellow supply line on the left and the solder lug on the Game Over relay latch with the black-white wire on the right is either a switch that won't close, or a loose connection or some other kind of open circuit. If you don't know how to narrow that down have a look at https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/big-brave-bonus-problems/page/2#post-4484030 or ask for clarification.

#17 5 years ago

I think this is my inning unit, it's the only stepper in the machine without a label and all the other ones are labeled something obviously not inning unit. All the other 5 switches check out. The switches in this are either both on or both off, not one or the other. Looks like somehow the spring came loose but when I wind it back up the switches are opened at zero and closed the rest of the time.

Now I'm starting to second guess weather this is the inning unit or not. The only other stepper remotely related to innings is the extra innings unit under the playfied, the bottom most of the red circle in my first post.

Maybe this is the grand slam unit and the regular innings are handled by the extra innings unit? This has 10 contacts (with wires attached), the same as the grand slam counter.

You can change the innings between 1 and 5, when I change the jumper to 3 innings I can play 3 innings before it stops without the game over light.

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#19 5 years ago

I think that's the right stepper. The schematic shows one solenoid has red & red-brown wires, the other has black & blue-red wires.

The switch you're looking for on the Inning Unit connects a yellow wire to a yellow-green wire. Your 2nd photo shows what looks like a yellow-green wire in the middle of the left side. I'm going to guess that the wiper is tied to yellow and that the yellow-green wire is tied to the rivet in the 1st or reset position. If that's the case it could be that the wiper isn't connecting to the rivet. You mentioned that the spring was unwound. Does it reset all the way at the start of a game?

#20 5 years ago

The coil on the right steps it up and the coil on top releases it back down to the starting position. Somehow I must have knocked the spring loose from the pin it hooks to while cleaning the contacts.

When I get home tonight I'll take the blades off and snap a picture of the inside while I'm checking contacts and alignment

#21 5 years ago

I verified that all six switches are closed but it's still not working right. Does that mean one of the wires going to the game over latch coil has something wrong with it? I attached a picture of the #5 switch stack, the switches look kinda wonky and I'm not sure about that piece of fish paper but the bottom switch definitely tests closed when it should be

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#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Action53:

I verified that all six switches are closed but it's still not working right.

How did you verify them? Individually or all together? Unless you can measure less than an ohm or so (with the power off) between the yellow wire on the left of the schematic and the solder lug of the Game Over Latch relay with the black-white wire on the right of the schematic there's an open somewhere. Keep in mind that in addition to the switches, the solder joints, jones plugs, etc. all need to be good.

Alternatively, you could use a bulb tester to see if your relay coil is getting power.

#23 5 years ago

Individually at each switch. I'll test the black and white wire to yellow and see what the ohms are and start tracing wires and checking connections

#24 5 years ago

I clipped my meter to the black and white wire on the game over relay and started checking each side of each switch in that line in order from closest to the relay to furthest. It turned out that the zero position switch on the player one tens unit looked like it was making contact but it really wasn't. I adjusted it while hooked up to my meter to make sure it made contact at zero and didn't the rest of the time and, SUCCESS!, no more loop. It started a game and I played a few.

I went to make a video to post but now when I press the pitch button nothing happens. When I press start, it starts a game and lights up the first player and number one inning lights but no pitch. If I press start again the light changes from "one can play" to "two can play" but still no pitch. If I manually trigger the pitch relay the pitch motor makes one revolution like its pitching. I verified that the pitch button is working with my meter. I've been looking at my schematics but I'm still a bit confused on what to check next

#25 5 years ago

After I hit the start button and it's in a game and won't pitch, if I manually trigger any score targets or the strike switch behind the bat, nothing happens. If I trigger any out targets, it registers an out and after three outs that's it, the inning light goes off and ends the game

#26 5 years ago

It was just a dirty contact on the #1 relay keeping it from pitching. I used what I learned earlier in this thread to read the schematics and follow along the line and find which switches needed to be checked.

The only thing that I can notice now is that it doesn't always register every out but I'm sure I can figure that out. Believe it or not, all the bulbs are original, I haven't replaced any and only a few are burned out.

Thank you everyone for all the help, I really appreciate it.

That ding when you score a run is so awesome, it's my favorite part.

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