Hi,

This thread is a continuation from a previous one. It may help others that come across the same issues....

I have a 1970 Dipsy Doodle. I've put several issues to bed. This is remaining:

The game starts and scores, when a ball drains, neither the ball count or player units step up.

I'm unfamiliar with Williams 4 player logic.

- I've tested the coils, they're good.
- Score motor switches appear to be good as well
- the outhole relay fires
- extra ball relay N.C is closed

I still have to check the Player reset relay, but I'm pretty sure the make/break is adjusted correctly.

Helllllp!

Thx

Thanks Howard,

I've looked at that circuit, but will jump around it. It would sure be great if The wires weren't so dirty and faded! Oh well.

So, I attacked this issue today. The it's just about impossible to read these wire colors. However, the ball index relay is not pulling in. If I manually close that relay, the ball count S.U. coil fires.

So....off to find out why the ball index relay does not energize....

It will pull in if the tilt relay is closed, but that's all.

Also, after ball 5, the machine does not go to game over.

One issue at a time, I guess.

OK, so. Being that the coil works when the tilt relay is closed, that pretty much isolated the issue to the extra ball relay.

If I jump what appears to be the Br-G from the extra ball relay to the ball index relay, the ball index coil locks on and the ball count unit advances when the outhole switch is made. However, the ball index relay stays locked on, much like a lock relay does. Should that be the case? It does pulse off when the score motor rotates.

So, It's not activating when the machine scores. It appears the the Br-G-2 wire is common to all three scoring relays.

Also, I'm working on the player unit. I'll probably have to clean it all up, but in the meant time, do you know how many times the cog spring should be wound? If I wind it twice, the unit steps up just fine, but there's not enough tension to reset the unit. If I wind 3 times, it resets fine, but too much tension to step up.

Thanks Dave,

I've always used three times on other steppers. I haven't thoroughly cleaned this one yet.

Thanks Howard.

I think this machine is possessed. I removed the jumper that I had, which allowed the ball count unit to work. Now it counts, even when the ball index relay does not activate, and the machine now goes to game over. However, the ball index relay still does not activate with the scoring relays. It seems that the wiring from the extra ball relay though the jones connecter is continuous.

One other thing the game does, is that upon start up, it goes from game over to ball 1, then when the ball kicks to play, steps to 2nd ball. and of course the ball kicks out after the last ball. I'm assuming the finger disc needs to be moved one rivet clockwise.

The latest.....

I cleaned and rebuilt the player unit. It still has the same trouble, I ended up shortening the furthest right vertical spring. It now works as advertised.

I still can not get the ball index to activate when the 10, 100 or 1000pt relays are engaged. The wires in this game are all faded and or dirty. I can not tell for sure which is the BR-G wire. If someone has a Dipsy Doodle that can tell me which lugs the BR-G wires are on the extra ball relay, the ball index relay, the jones plugs and scoring relays, I'd be quite grateful.

Thx.

Thanks Howard, I didn't even think of looking in the manual, I'm so used to Gottliebs.

Ok, Is it me or is it the machine?

I ran a wire between the Br-G lug on the 10pt. relay and the extra ball relay. When the 10pt relay activated, the ball index relay did as well. However, the 10pt. relay did not release, and therefore the ball index relay stayed held on after the ball drained. So, I unsoldered the existing wire from the 10pt. relay and jumped from that switch blade to the extra ball relay, removing the old wiring from the circuit, with the same results. Also if I disconnect the jumper and close the 10pt. relay manually, the relay also stays locked on, even with no wire connected to that switch blade. As soon as I reconnect the original Br-G wire to the lug, the 10pt. relay acts as it should, but the ball index relay does not activate?

?????

Not getting angry......getting frustrated!

Yes, I confirmed the the lug positions via the game manual.

I started to trace the wires, but had to stop.

agreed, I just don't know why it's being held.

OK,

Regrouping.......

and doing what I was trying to avoid......

The ball index relay has continuity through the extra ball relay Br-G wire to what I'm assuming is the Br-G wire on a jones plug in the head. The continuity is broken if I open the extra ball relay, so we're good that way. My next step is what I was trying to avoid, which is tracing the wire from the jones plug to the scoring relays. Of course it's buried in the middle of the thickest wire bundle. Time to unwrap the bundle. As things stand there in no continuity from the Jones plug to the score relay Br-G lugs, however there is continuity from the plug to the wire attached to the opposite blade of the switch.

The latest....

I checked continuity from the Br-G lug on the extra ball relay to the jones plug. There was only one plug the had continuity. I followed that wire, which looks like it could have been Br-G at one time, now it looks more tan-G. It goes the the player unit. Does that make any sense? I don't see in the manual where it would go to the player unit. It connects to the middle lug of three on the top of the bakelite plate that's on the inside, closest to the coils.

Thanks Rolf,

I'll be able to check this and get back to you in a few days. I'm pretty sure the ball index relay would operate by doing that.

well, that works, but I need to fix the root cause of the issue.