hello wonderful pinside!

I acquired this grand prix 6 months ago. it has been working wonderfully. a week or so ago, at powerup/replay button pushed, player 4-1000 score reel turned constantly and did not reset. I found and altered the "culprit" switch, and WAS able to play games that night. I have not played that game for a few days now, and NOW WHEN I toggle-on the pin):

IN BODY: SCORE MOTOR, BOTH BONUS UNITS, 2 OTHER STEP UNITS: (ONE LABELED COIN UNIT) the other NOT LABELED ((BUT LOOKS SAME, its NEXT TO LABELED "coin unit")), run/fire nonstop.
and in backbox:
PLAYER UNIT fires nonstop, and three relays in a row NOT LABELED (two are m29-1100, one is m29-900) ) fire intermittently

there is obviously a hold up in the start up procedure. I have learned from previous fixes that it is good to know what you are doing/changing when you are doing/changing (obviously, right? lol)

so i ask my fellow pinsiders for help before i take needlenose plyers to anything/everything.

thank you in advance for any leads.
-barry.

i should also note:

ALL player reels are reset, and there ARE credits in game.

this may help you/me.

thank you.

gp (resized).jpg

also to super clarify, all of this "annoying stuff" happens when i POWER ON MACHINE. this morning i checked REPLAY switch. it appears to be normal (switch is OPEN, and CLOSES when pressed). pressing replay switch does not do anything.

thanks in advance for any leads.
-barry.

Rolf, thank you for the leads. Question: where are the "circled green" switches located? Is that a switch stack on score motor?

And the "circled red" switches are on the coin door correct?

I will be home in a few hours and spend my afternoon investigating the leads you and drofstyle have given me

Alright, a little improvement. not much but after your leads and also reading http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#coindoor, i was able to realize, and adjust coin door. I only found two switches (rolf: your "circled red" part of jpeg has 3? tho??), but both switches (make/break) were wrong, and i corrected them.

now at "power on", game is silent (GOOD)

and when i hit "replay button": all previously posted annoying things still fire.

dr_of_style: there are THREE relays in head that seem to NOT be 10pt, 100pt etc relays. Those three relays are NOT labeled , THOSE THREE RELAYS are underneath the 10pt, 100pt etc.. THOSE RELAYS are two m29-1100 coils, one is m29-900. ALL THREE of those FIRE INTERMITTENTLY while all the other "annoying firing" happens. aka they go ON/OFF with everything else.

Im realizing a game without correctly labeled relays only makes things harder lol

THE scores do reset. thru some "fixings" and obvservations, i have found:

Power on (silence)

PRESS REPLAY ( nothing happens)

BUT if i then MANUALLY plunge Credit unit (to make credit unit go down a number):

I can play a game.

when i then power off machine, i must repeat above procedure to play another game. i think we are onto something.

credit unit YES. player unit and ball count unit NO. I WISH I KNEW WHERE THEY WERE. are they both the same unit, a big stepper unit, below credit unit? my gotltieb game (sheriff), ball count and player are ONE unit. is this game/WILLIAMS different? as far as the head goes, there is only one unit other than credit unit. and three relays that dont "seem" to belong to scoring (they are not all labeled).

(i apologize for not being able to answer questions 1 to 1. im less than a year deep in this but am so desiring to be fully able soon)

I will check the "ball count and/or player unit (other big step unit) now.

i found that that there is a MAKE/MAKE? switch on credit unit. If i manually plunge credit unit (and make bottom switch touch middle switch): game can then be played.

i made said switch a make/break and the "annoying stuff" happened again non-stop. i have now made it a MAKE/MAKE switch hoping that is correct.

i will check/clean player unit now.

haha both: "beer o clock" for me is when i start posting this stuff.

much appreciated to you both. thank you ridiculously. i will check all the new stuff you posted and report back asap.

i cleaned/filed/lubed "player unit". still same problem:

power on: nothing

replay button: nothing

if i plunge credit unt, (manually make the make/make switch closed for a second):

i can play ONE GAME (1 Player)

replay button does not add players once game is activated.

this is a def improvement from this morning. i am very happy and excited.

-barry

yes lights do turn on

TODAY, after not touching game at all since last post, now when i manually plunge credit unit, the "annoying stuff" happens. very frustrating, but also very perplexing.

as per post #1, game went from FULLY FUNCTIONAL to all these problems when not touching it, but sitting for a few days. i am very curious as to WHY

rolf i am going to do tests in POST 23 now.

the same "annoying stuff" happens (when pressing armature plate of "coin relay"), same activity as when i manully close "make/make" switch on Credit Unit.

i have two coin shoots, both labled "quarter"

yes thats correct. and the inside looks like this: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#coindoor the first image, with 2 make/break switches.

rolf, i understand completely.

POWER ON: playfield and backglass light up.

REPLAY BUTTON: (with credits on machine and 50 pts on all 4 player reels), NOTHING.

IF i then actuate "coin relay" OR manually activate make/make switch on CREDIT WHEEL:

"#1,2,&3 reset relays" and both bonus units fire intermittently, and score motor runs. ALL SCORE REELS RESET.

those are the "annoying things" that are NOW.

-barry

Williams Start-Up Sequence.

" When the start button is pressed, the credit unit is decremented."

thats step 1.

on my machine: start button doesnt do anything.

heyo yall.

where im at now:

when i power on, the constant firing of bonus units has stopped. that correction was from checking/adjusting all scoredrums.

so now when i power on, lights turn on.

REPLAY BUTTON does NOT do anything.

If i then manually press make/make switch on credit unit, everything resets and I can play a 1 player game.

so i would assume question at this point is: "how to make replay button work".

i will be re-reading above posts, and also schematic and manual. any further hints are very much appreciated.

as always, thank you.
-barry.

pin-it,
credit unit switches do match photos for correct freeplay setup. :/

if i manually activate reset relay, game starts, same as if i manually activate make/make switch on credit unit.

AAAND also out of nowhere, now game stops after 2 balls.

rolf,

so magically from just inspecting jones plug, NOW replay button works. (i wonder if there is a wire on jones plug that does not have good contact, that i temporarily made better? we will see..)

I found that even tho i thought i adjusted to freeplay mode, credits are still crucial to replay button working.

as far as the two ball problem, with a two player game, it plays both players first ball, and 1st players second ball, and then nothing.
it does not say GAME OVER. there seems to be a hold up, after the first "second ball in play" drains.

barry

i found ball count step unit. i cleaned and adjusted switch blades.

i played three games and each time it went through all 5 balls. it seems that was the culprit.

i will double inspect that jones plug. there must be a wonky wire.

as always, thanks again.
-barry.