(Topic ID: 162027)

williams 1976 grand prix kick out hole


By BarryMulvihill

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by BarryMulvihill
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

the right kick out hold does not kick the ball out ONLY when bonus score on right side is 0 or 5000. any other score it accumulates the points and kicks the ball out like regular. the only way to get ball out is to hit start or to manually hit the LEFT kick out sensor with my finger. any help would be appreciated. this is my first table, i got it last week, and i absolutely love it. thanks in advance.

IMG_20160612_183344098_(resized).jpg

#2 3 years ago

I'd go through the stepper for the right bonus. Make sure it steps freely, sand the contacts, etc.

#3 3 years ago

i didnt have sandpaper today but tried sanding contacts with a rough brillo pad i had around. didnt seem to help. they look clean but ill try with sandpaper tomorrow. stepper did seem to move okay.
the right 5000 bonus point is always lit up. not sure if thats a clue to solving this as well..

#4 3 years ago

Also, check the zero switch on the right bonus unit. Make sure it's sitting properly only when the unit is fully reset. I don't recall if it's open at that point or closed but either way, it should be in that state only at full reset. Once it moves up even one spot, that switch should change state. If not, it might not think there were any points and not fire the kicker.

#5 3 years ago

As long as the contacts are shiny you're good.

Compare the right bonus unit with the left. Is the left 5000 always lit up? How does the left's zero position switch work compared to the right?

#6 3 years ago

The fact that you said "doesn't kick out when bonus is zero" may be part of the problem. The bonus should NEVER be zero, at the beginning of a ball or when it is collected it should always be at 5000 to start. The problem is definitely in the bonus counter, compare the switch open/close settings at each step to the left side to make sure they're the same.

#7 3 years ago

To clarify I said zero cause most bonus lights on left side don't light up, including the 5000, so I wasnt sure if 5000 should be on or off at start.. thanks parabax for that clarification. Bout to look at it now. Thank you all for the advice. I'll keep ya posted. Now to fig out what piece is the bonus counter lol...

#8 3 years ago

Both of them hang on the bottom of the playfield, one for left and one for right.

#9 3 years ago

I found the left and right counters. Trying to fig out what should be open it closed..

#10 3 years ago

The bonus always starts at 5000.

#11 3 years ago

Left side at reset

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#12 3 years ago

Right at reset

IMG_20160613_172216379_(resized).jpg

#13 3 years ago

Disregard those pics I see what you guys are talking about.

#14 3 years ago

So yes it's not closing at reset on right side. If I manually press to one notch more it will close and the kicker does engage. How do I adjust this?

#15 3 years ago

That behavior generally means the unit is gummed up with old grease and dirt. The ideal solution is to disassemble the unit, clean it and re-assemble. This is tricky because everything must go back in exactly the right place and in the right relationship with each other. You may be able to get by with something less.

First, reset the unit all the way, by hand if necessary. On the side with the circuit disc, pick one of the wiper fingers and mark it with a Sharpie. Put a matching mark on the circuit board. Then you can remove the nut and pull the wiper unit off the shaft. Make sure the ratchet wheel does not turn while removing the nut.

Now take some 600 grit sandpaper and sand the rivets until clean and shiny. Don't sand off your alignment mark! Wipe the board down with isopropyl alcohol and then spread a VERY thin coat of Teflon Superlube over the rivets. Clean up the contacts on the bottom of the wipers with a flexstone or the same sandpaper. Don't bend the fingers while doing this.

Reassemble the unit, matching the marks you made earlier. Now, step the unit up a few notches and then reset it. It should spin back all the way to zero. If not, you have two choices. Disassemble it all the way and clean the main shaft or, the inadvisable way, tighten the clock spring one turn. That should be a last resort as you want those units to operate with as little spring tension as possible. Tightening it may make it hard for the unit to step up - you'd just have to see.

#16 3 years ago

i apologize for so many posts. this is new to me, please be kind lol.

thru observation, ive realized a few more tidbits.

if i rack up points on right spinner, and tap the right kickout hole, the points reset to the first contact on the bonus step spider thing, and the open/close on the opposite side of bonus counter matches the what the left sides bonus counter looks like at reset. if i then hit the kicker again, it MOVES to the SECOND notch, where im assuming it should not move, like the left side. if then i then hit the right kickout, nothing happens.

when the right side lights count down, the SECOND TO LAST step is 5000, and the last step, when it stops, 5000 is not lit up.

also, if i hit the LEFT kickout, the RIGHT bonus counter counts up. the left side does not count up when the right kickout engages (which im assuming is correct)

im trying to not do any damage thru tinkering, so im hoping someone may have a next step for me. thanks in advance.

#17 3 years ago

We probably need to start at the top and go systematically. When you drop the ball in the hole at the top on ball 1 of a new game, the bonus should advance on the left side and the left side red arrow should be lit up. How much bonus do you get? Catch the ball when it ejects from the top hole. Now drop the ball in the drain. That bonus should count down and be added to the score. Does it? What is the state of the bonus lights at the start of Ball 2?

Ball 2 now - the red arrow on the playfield should have switched sides. Did it? Put the ball in the top hole. Did you get the same amount of bonus on the right side? Drain the ball. Did it count down and score? What is the state of the bonus lights at the start of Ball 3?

Repeat just those steps for the rest of the balls. The arrow should alternate sides and you should get bonus of the same amount on all balls as long as you catch and drain it before it hits anything else. The state of the bonus lights as each new ball starts should be the same. Let us know what happens with that.

Start a new game. Do the same thing but this time, after catching the ball, knock down the 2 upper drop targets by hand. The 1 Star light should come on at the bottom of the playfield. Does it? Drain the ball and check that bonus scoring is now double. Is it? Repeat for the rest of the balls. Try the lower drop target pair at least once. Bonus should double and the 1 Star light come on when either the upper or lower pair of drops is knocked down. Does it?

Start another game. Drop the ball in the top hole and catch it when ejected. Spin both spinners by hand to max bonus. The spinner lights should come on and spinner values go up. Does that happen? Now drain the ball. The left bonus should count down and be scored. The right bonus should just go away. Does that happen?

#18 3 years ago

alright, i tried to capture a pattern only to find theres some def wonkyness going on.
Ball 1
Red arrow on LEFT side lit up. NO bonus lights on.
Put ball in top hole. 5000 on scoreboard. 10000 is lit up on left bonus.
Dropped ball down drain.
Scoreboard says 15000

BALL 2
Red arrow on RIGHT side lit up. Both bonuses 5000 lit up.
Put ball in top hole. 20000 on scoreboard.
5000 is still lit up on RIGHT bonus and LEFT bonus.
Dropped ball down drain.
Scoreboard says 35000.

BALL 3
Red arrow on LEFT side lit up. RIGHT 5000 bonus flickering, No LEFT bonus on.
Put ball in top hole. 40000 on scoreboard. 10000 is lit up on left bonus.
Dropped ball down drain.
Scoreboard says 55000.

Its at this time in noticed that the ball in play number on backboard was not changing. I has not had an issue changing before. I played ball a bit and drained a few times and it seemed to start changing again. ????

i did not check the point values doubling and stuff yet, but confirmed that knocking either pair of drop targets gains a star, and gains all 4, and rolling over play again does earn an extra turn.

a note that i think left bonus lights have faulty sockets. theres a few lights (25000 and 40000) that always light up, and the rest either dont light up or flicker occasionally. i could be wrong but i think they are just dirty, and its not part of whatever mechanical is goin on.

also my hunch, is that the 5000 not 10000 lit up on right side AFTER going in the top hole on ball 2, is part of why the kickout isnt working. like its a step behind or something?

#19 3 years ago

Light sockets are certainly a probable issue. You'll likely need to clean them at best, replace some at worst.

It's good that your alternating logic is working and most of the bonus functionality seems like it's trying to work. I think you are definitely looking at some sluggish and dirty units. I'd start by cleaning both bonus contact disks and the wiper fingers and giving them a light coat of the Teflon Super Lube. Do the same with the Ball Count unit. Make sure it looks like all the wiper fingers on all 3 units are making good contact with the rivets and the units reset smoothly when asked.

On each contact board, check to make sure the wipers are sitting smack on the middle of the rivet when reset. There are three screws on the contact board that, when loosened, allow slight rotation of the board. If needed, do that so that the contacts are as best centered as you can make them. Look at the general alignment of the contact board. It will likely be more or less square with the frame of the unit. Take note if one looks to be rotated a lot in either direction but don't fiddle with it yet. Just get them centered on the rivets. Then let's see where we are. It's possible you might be a rivet off on the one, but don't mess with that until they are cleaned and moving freely. Start there...

#20 3 years ago

Thanks so much for all the info and the speedy reply toyguy!
Aight i got some cleaning to do. I'll report back.
I'm thankful I can still play for now. I just put some painters tape over the right kickout. I love this thing. Just didn't know it was gonna teach me electronics haha. My grandpa was an engineer for GE. He woulda loved to teach me this stuff.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from BarryMulvihill:

I just put some painters tape over the right kickout.

Ha! That's the same "fix" that was on mine when I got it.

#22 3 years ago

The bolt on bonus things real tight. I don't wanna force anything. I'm gonna try cleaning without removing it for now. .

#23 3 years ago

SANDING AND LUBING CONTACTS ON BONUS WHEELS SOLVED THIS ISSUE!!!!!

i did not feel comfortable forcing the bolt loose so i just cleaned the sides fully assembled, moving the bonus up and down to get to all of the contacts. I applied a very light coat of teflon super lube. i loosened screw of one of the plates and slightly twised the board. and still two arms of right bonus were not centered so i bent them ever so little into place.

I only tested it out for about a minute in pure excitement. it seems to have done the trick. i did notice that triggering the left kickout increased the right sides bonus, it did this a few times, and then stopped. i will see if that keeps happening...

but thank you all so very much for the advice. i am new here and was actually blown away by how helpful you all were. this is a new hobby i see getting super into. ive seen a few threads here about em machines 101 and the inner workings and whatnot. if you have any leads to easy to understand info im all ears.

#24 3 years ago

on further playing i noticed two weird things:
5000 hole at top of playfield scores two notches (10000) for both the left and right.
occasionally the bonus resets quckly and does not reward earned points, when collecting at kickout or drain.

positives of cleaning contacts:
right kickout works everytime its landed on
some of the bonus lights that were flickering or out before now light up.

#25 3 years ago

The hole at the top of the playfield is supposed to advance the bonus and it is adjustable with a plug for two or three advances. So, if you're at 5000 on the bonus that's lit at the top and you land in the hole, it will advance the bonus to either 15000 or 20000.

#26 3 years ago

Oh cool thanks EMsInKC! It's labeled 5000 on play field so that's where confusion came from.

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from BarryMulvihill:

Oh cool thanks EMsInKC! It's labeled 5000 on play field so that's where confusion came from.

The hole itself scores 5000. However, it will advance the bonus depending upon which side is lit up by the hole. Just to make sure I understand you correctly, it's only advancing the bonus on one side, correct? It shouldn't be advancing both sides at the same time.

#28 3 years ago

Yeah it only adds bonus to one side. If 5000 is lit up on said bonus, hitting top hole would light up 10000 and 15000

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from BarryMulvihill:

Yeah it only adds bonus to one side. If 5000 is lit up on said bonus, hitting top hole would light up 10000 and 15000

That's correct, and it's set on the conservative setting. If it was set on liberal it would go up to 20000.

#30 3 years ago

Also noticing occasionally when landing on bonus kickout or draining and I accumulate bonus points, instead if chugging along on each point and counting down, it's shoots to 5000 pretty fast. Not sure if it's malfunctioning or just adding points faster like in sets of 10000 or 25000.

#31 3 years ago

I had this exact issue on mine. Try taking one wind off the clock spring on each of the units. You will see where the spring hooks onto a post. Lift it off and unwind one rotation then hook it back on. Make sure the unit still resets backwards as it should then try again.

Mine had such tension it was passing multiple ratchet teeth at one time.

#32 3 years ago

Its working great now!!!!!!
I loosened the spring one turn and playing a few games it only shot down fast once. I think I will try loosening it one more turn.
Otherwise tho it seems to work flawlessly. There's a scoring issue with player fours 1000 digit but that's not a big deal for the time being. Now to clean and wax it and get another machine!!!
Thank you all for the help.

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from BarryMulvihill:

Its working great now!!!!!!
I loosened the spring one turn and playing a few games it only shot down fast once. I think I will try loosening it one more turn.
Otherwise tho it seems to work flawlessly. There's a scoring issue with player fours 1000 digit but that's not a big deal for the time being. Now to clean and wax it and get another machine!!!
Thank you all for the help.

When the bonus units were gunked up before you cleaned the circuit boards, someone decided the cure was to ratchet up the spring to force it to count down. Once you cleaned it up and it stepped easier, there was too much spring pressure so it counted down erroneously. Good lesson on how not to fix machines.

#34 3 years ago

Alright I'm back lol. After playing much more I noticed both bonuses still occasionally shoot to 5000 real fast when collecting at kickout or drain. It only seems to happen when it's up high at 45000 or 50000. I tried unwinding spring a twist more but it made it countdown at half the speed (two "chug chugs") per light.

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