(Topic ID: 170431)

williams 1976 grand prix ball count

By BarryMulvihill

7 years ago



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#1 7 years ago

in 1 player game, game stops after second ball drains. it does not say game over. if it is a 2,3,4, player game, the first player, ball #2, always stops game as well.. bonuses ARE collected, and then just nothing.

hoping i can get a lead. you guys are awesome.
-barry.

#2 7 years ago

Hi Barry
from post-1 I take a "ONE-player-game" works fine - the problem shows up when playing a 2,3,4-player-game when the first player looses ball-2. This is strange - by now I do not have an explanation so I ask questions to help me getting to the place for to investigate.

I refer to http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1072&picno=35542 - in the picture (on the bottom) the left arrow is lit - when the player looses the ball: He gets 5000 bonus points due to "lightet LEFT Bonus-Ladder". Please play a ONE-Player-Game - well, have the playfield up and manipulate on the playfield - I ask You to always have / make some bonus on the left and have / make some bonus on the right (NOT the same amount, good example: 2 on the left, 4 on the right).

Then with playfield UP: Loose the ball means use Your finger so the Switch below the Outhole is closed - "lit Bonus-Ladder" will be counted down, then "unlit Bonus-Ladder" will be set to Zero, then the pin beats Your finger - he / it wants to kick the ball over to the Shooter-Alley - so take Your finger away.

(In the ONE-Player-Game) sometimes "loose" a ball when "left arrow" is lit - sometimes "loose" a ball when "right arrow" is lit --- question: BOTH ways work fine ?
My description is for "left arrow" - look in the pin - do You see these things happen ? With a finger You manipulate "looses ball" - Outhole-Switch is closed - "LEFT Bonus-Relay" pulls-in and stays pulling" - Score-Motor runs and the left Bonus-Ladder is counted down - when reaching Zero-Position: "left Bonus-Relay" lets go - OUTHOLE-Relay pulls-in --- then more stuff is done.

NOW start a 2-Player-Game, play Player-1-Ball-1, play Player-2-Ball-1, on Player-1-Ball-2 make some points, make "2 bonus on the left, 4 bonus on the right - means different settings" - have the "LEFT arrow" lit - manipulate with a finger "ball is lost" AND WATCH --- question: DOES the pin do the SAME as it did in a one-player-game ? "LEFT Bonus-Relay" pulls-in ... lets go - OUTHOLE-Relay pulls-in ?

You do have a running pin "ONE-Player-Game" - You can watch the "left-Bonus-Relay" and "Outhole-Relay" stuff - I want to learn "First difference" in behaviour doing the "sequence / succession" ONE-Player-Game versus TWO-Player-Game, end of Player-1-Ball-2.

Again: By now I do not have an explanation - by now I want to learn about "Left Bonus-Relay" and "Outhole-Relay" - and: Does a ONE-Player-Game FULLY works ? - loosing a ball "LEFT red arrow lit" versus "RIGHT red arrow lit" ?, greetings Rolf

#3 7 years ago

No it happens with one player game as well. I was just explaining that it happens after the first "ball #2" drains. Be it a 1,2,3 or 4 player game

#4 7 years ago

Hi Barry
the phenomena also happens in a 1-player-game. So please look at the mentioned stuff when (1-player-game) You let drain the first ball (LEFT arrow is lit) --- watch (as written in post-2) the "Left-Bonus-Relay" and "Outhole-Relay" stuff.

Then make again some bonus on both Bonus-Ladders, have again the LEFT arrow lit and then let the second ball drain (You have the playfield liftet - and watch the "Left-Bonus-Relay" and "Outhole-Relay" stuff). WHAT is different ?

Then do the same testing - this time with RIGHT arrow lit (when You let drain the balls), greetings Rolf

1 month later
#5 7 years ago

game stops after 1st player ball 2 (right arrow) completes the bonus countdown. the only steps left to complete are alternating to LEFT arrow and outhole throwing ball out.

outhole relay is the culprit i am focusing on now. its just a hunch. love some feedback.
-barry.

#6 7 years ago

So ball 1 plays correctly, ball drains, bonus scores, ball is kicked out and bonus switches to right side.

Ball 2 plays correctly, ball drains, bonus counts down, then nothing?

I don't have the schematic in front of me right now, but there's something going on with your right side bonus unit is my best guess here. There's a zero position switch there that will be involved in this sequence.

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

So ball 1 plays correctly, ball drains, bonus scores, ball is kicked out and bonus switches to right side.
Ball 2 plays correctly, ball drains, bonus counts down, then nothing?
I don't have the schematic in front of me right now, but there's something going on with your right side bonus unit is my best guess here. There's a zero position switch there that will be involved in this sequence.

yeah exactly the prob. ill check it out thank you

1 week later
#8 7 years ago

prob solved!!

there was a disconnected wire associated with a switch on the back of the Right Bonus Step Relay.

so hard to see, but once i found it it was obvious. i soldered it and IT WORKS NOW!!

edit: i think suspect wire came undone from pulling playfield out and up to investigate "stuff". def gonna be more careful and treat all connections as fragile at this point.

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