(Topic ID: 147356)

Williams 1963 Major League Restoration - Complete


By SteveinTexas

3 years ago



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  • 217 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by SteveinTexas
  • Topic is favorited by 32 Pinsiders

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    There are 217 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.
    #101 3 years ago

    Thanks Pat for the label snapshot.

    #102 3 years ago

    Bravo!

    #103 3 years ago
    Quoted from SteveinTexas:

    Here are some pictures enjoy.

    Those games are incredibly beautiful. Way Way beyond my ability but it's great to see machines brought to this level. Congratulations!!

    3 weeks later
    #104 3 years ago

    Hi Steve, Brilliant work, I managed to fix the pitch unit in mine thanks to your pics, the gear box is at PBR getting repaired right now. The apron is the final frontier for me still, little time these days. The label if you haven't received it already is in a pic below, they are both 3" square. And for the backbox lamps I picked 60w equiv led lamps I found at home depot (Cree HD part# 810048026012), candle type led's for the coin box made by philips (HD Part# 046677435110).

    Backbox_label1_(resized).JPG

    Below is label to the right of the above label
    Backbox_label2_(resized).JPG

    Then the Cree led lamps, only 9w and run very cool and bright; described as Cree 9-Watt (60W) A19 Daylight (5000K) Dimmable LED Light Bulb
    Led_100w_(resized).JPG

    #105 3 years ago

    Hi Spencer.

    Thanks for the labels. I have all the labels now and other game instructions copied in a word file for any one that wants it.

    I have a spare apron for the game. PM me. I at least can sent you the apron sticker for this game. They have really held up with the 2PAC clear finish. It is very hard and protects the top so well. I have spare target stickers also for a couple of games, again they have not marked at all over at least 100 games. The 2PAC clear is very good.

    I use 15W bulbs still get hot but no damage so far. Best restores I have ever completed.

    3 months later
    #106 3 years ago

    Does anyone know the correct leg size for Upper Deck.
    My game came with (2) 27" and (2) 28 1/2".
    Cliff

    3 months later
    #107 2 years ago

    Thanks Steve for sharing your restoration! This is excellent work you've done and an inspiration to get my 1963 Major League up and running again. It's been about 10 years since I had it working (most the way, at least). It will register credits, but upon starting the game, the score to beat reels reset, lights come on, credit decrements, etc (as I believe all to be normal) but the game won't start. Last time I had a problem where the game started with two outs, now I am wondering if it is stuck on three outs or if there is a start relay not working.....I'll keep starting at the schematic and looking for dirt!

    #108 2 years ago

    Sounds like the out unit at the far back end of your machine (under playfield) might not be returning all the way. If it's never had the original grease removed it'll be gummed up.

    Remove playfield and see when you pull the lever the "wheel" freely returns to rest pos on it's own, the springs make that happen but if it's dirty it won't return right. Needs to be taken apart and degreased. I used no grease or oil in re assembly myself except on the teeth.

    #109 2 years ago

    Thanks for the help Nighthawk. I sent you a PM prior to seeing your reply. There are two assemblies that look similar. The one at the back of the machine does not seem to rotate when I pull the lever (power is off). The front unit lever causes the wheel to turn one position, and returns slowly, indicating it is gummed up. I am also concerned about the home position of the wheels. What are these referred to on the schematic? I'll dig into them tomorrow a bit more. Thanks so much for your help! There is not a whole lot of info out there on this specific machine, so I am happy I found this site, and a couple of threads to give me some tips and inspiration.

    #110 2 years ago

    Great you are planning to fix up your game, Its well worth it. Nighthawk128 is spot on where to start looking.

    I attach some pictures from the thread with some general notes to support Nighthawk128. We will get the game running in know time so keep posting. Over time the steppers get gummed up if not operated.

    Bottom Board (resized).jpg

    Steppers on Bottom Board (resized).jpg

    #111 2 years ago

    Thanks for the tips Steve, and the encouragement! Your pictures note that it's best to removed the playfield, and unbolt the bottom board. I can do that. There are four screws holding the out unit (and ganged to the other unit) to the bottom board. Seems like if these four screws were removed, that the whole assembly could lifted out without removing the bottom board. I'll look at it in depth tonight after work. I've said it before, but I'll say it again - I'm excited to find this thread, and even moreso that I found another person with this machine!

    #112 2 years ago

    The reason to lift it out is so you can see it work close up and save your back. For me the aching back is the worst.

    You need to disassemble the stepper electrical harness switches and coils. Then you can bring it to the bench. Before you disassemble get used to taking picture first. lastly if you do remove the bottom board you need to undo some jones plugs in the head and pull the power cable through.

    #113 2 years ago

    I started cleaning up the out unit tonight. The wheel did not rotate upon engaging either solenoid. After some cleaning, the vertical solenoid (which appears to cause the outs to reset) returns freely to it's home position. Pulling the lever (which appears to simulate an out) does not cause the wheel to turn freely. Prior to resetting the wheel, if I activate the lever, it appears to move freely. It's when the load of the wheel is against it, that it does not move. I either need to go a bit further in dissassembly to ensure I have all the gunk cleaned off or the tension on the springs is not strong enough. How do I know that the spring attached to the center post is at the proper tension?

    #114 2 years ago

    Yup, that is typical for a stepper that has not been rotated for quite awhile.

    The center spring needs about 2-3 turns no more if all is clean.

    I put an arrow to the three points that need to move freely in the picture above.

    Did you put all the springs back after you cleaned? Replacements are available from PBR, but that should not be necessary unless they are missing or look damaged.

    To clean thoroughly you need to undo the Bakelite rotating contact wheel on the opposite side. Then you can remove the center shaft with the cog. When you have cleaned the parts some teflon type lube on the metal to metal moving points and on the gear teeth (very little).

    #115 2 years ago

    I disassembled the entire unit except for the inner bakelite contact disc, cleaning all contact points and lubricating as you recommended prior to reassembly. Smooooooth! Your tips and guidance were awesome. Thanks to Nighthawk128 too for his assessment of the issue. The Mix Unit is gummed up too as the level operation is sticky. I don't know what problems that will cause, but I may as well start cleaning that unit up next while the jones plugs are disconnected. Thanks again!!

    #116 2 years ago

    The mix unit varies the fast and slow pitch for one.

    Once this is clean we can see if your game works.

    #117 2 years ago

    Steve, I have the mix unit cleaned. The mix unit gear appears to be able to rotate a full revolution, if the linkage marked with a W (without the circle around the W) is actuated. The problem I see, is how does this happen when the mix unit has only one solenoid? I don't have the solenoid installed, but the plunger is installed in the location of the lone solenoid. See my pictures for what I am talking about. Should there be one or two solenoids on the mix unit?

    IMG_20170119_002107 (resized).jpg

    IMG_20170119_002021 (resized).jpg

    #118 2 years ago
    Quoted from kevstang67:

    Steve, I have the mix unit cleaned. The mix unit gear appears to be able to rotate a full revolution, if the linkage marked with a W (without the circle around the W) is actuated. The problem I see, is how does this happen when the mix unit has only one solenoid? I don't have the solenoid installed, but the plunger is installed in the location of the lone solenoid. See my pictures for what I am talking about. Should there be one or two solenoids on the mix unit?

    Yes this stepper is the simplest type and is known as a "Continuous Rotation stepper unit". It has only one coil as it does not need to be reset so there is not a "Reset Coil". There is also no need for a center spring to bring it home or a space on the cam teeth to stall incremental stepping up further than designed. They are used for number matching or random feature alternating etc. The linkage with the W stamped is a pawl assembly, it is still needed along with the brass adjustment set screw to keep pressure on the drive arm that is contacting with the 50 tooth ratchet gear. In this instance it alternates powering the fast pitch relay or not. and probably the end of game match score number. I don't have the schematic to see if it does another feature.

    The most common stepper is a Total Reset stepper unit. Like the "outs stepper unit" adjacent to it and it it counts the outs and also if a bonus inning is awarded so there are at least six contacts not 3. Once the max number of innings are reached then the cam teeth gap is reached and it cannot move further. Once you start another game the reset coil is powered and it releases the linkage with the w stamped (pawl) and the center spring snaps it back to its home position.

    The last type is a "Single Step Reset stepper Unit". On your game this would be the "Relay Unit", it has more bits added and has two coils etc as it adds replays during the game but has to knock one credit of to start a game when the reset coil is powered.

    Soon be ready to play this game I think.

    Steve J.

    #119 2 years ago

    Awesome explanation of the different steppers Steve! Thank you. I'm excited to power the machine up soon! On my Mix Unit, the pawl which you state applies pressure to the drive arm may not be adjusted properly. When the lever is pressed, simulating the solenoid actuating, the ratchet gear does not move. It was only when I moved the pawl away from the gear would it rotate. With your explanation, I should be able to figure it out. I'll post an update once I get back to it tonight. Thanks again for all your help!

    #120 2 years ago

    Looking at your pictures I would in your next order to PBR get some spring kits for the steppers. It is not critical to do so now but down the road.

    This game deserves some love/spoiling.

    #121 2 years ago

    Nice work Kev! Glad that's sorted out, I hope it works out. Also some steppers in the back box that could benefit from the same Qtip treatment when you get around to it. I forget the names of those ones but there is one that resets also which affects credits and scores I believe. It's front and center. Have fun and working on it can be half the fun, I can send you a pdf of the schematic if you want. Pm me if your interested.

    #122 2 years ago

    Oh and all the Circlips need to come off because not only the toothed gear is gummed up but also the arms (ratchets). Everything affixed to a shaft is gummed up on those assemblies.

    #123 2 years ago

    Thanks for the tips Nighthawk. After firing up the machine again last night, I still had issues on Reset. I looked in the backbox and realized the Run Unit (the one you referred to) was totally bound up. I removed all parts down to just the gear wheel, and shaft. It took penetrating oil and rotating the shaft with a wrench repeatedly until it broke free. All the parts are soaking in degreaser. I found a couple other things which I'll post in another post next. Thanks again and I will take you up on the schematic. I have a copy of the original but there are some spots which are hard to see. I'll message you.

    #124 2 years ago

    Question specifically on the Run Unit. Observing the operation of the now cleaned up unit, there is an arm extending off the gear wheel which seems like it is designed the horizontally mounted leaf switch. The switch is normally closed, but the arm doesn't appear as if it would ever cause the switch to open. I put the unit back together exactly how I took it apart. Also, looking to understand the normal state, or starting state of the gear wheel. Please help if you can. Thanks!

    IMG_20170122_111245 (resized).jpg

    IMG_20170122_111212 (resized).jpg

    #125 2 years ago

    I figured it out. The bracket for the switch was not oriented properly.

    Quoted from kevstang67:

    Question specifically on the Run Unit. Observing the operation of the now cleaned up unit, there is an arm extending off the gear wheel which seems like it is designed the horizontally mounted leaf switch. The switch is normally closed, but the arm doesn't appear as if it would ever cause the switch to open. I put the unit back together exactly how I took it apart. Also, looking to understand the normal state, or starting state of the gear wheel. Please help if you can. Thanks!

    #126 2 years ago

    I was looking at my run unit before and after pics on page 2 when you answered. Do you have a question still on the reset position or is it all clear?

    #127 2 years ago

    No, Steve. I figured it out. I saw your pictures, and that helped me get the bracket in the proper orientation. The normal state of the wheel was found when I discovered the stop will only allow the gear to rotate so far back. I have it all back together, and am almost done putting the Match Unit back together. I can't stop cleaning! Your explanation you gave on the different steppers was super helpful. Thanks!

    I do have a question on some wiring that appears to have been added coming off the Game Over - Latch Trip relay. It's the 2nd set of switch contacts closest to the front of the machine. There are two brown wires, which run the length of the machine and appear as if they were connected together at one time, thereby shorting out the switch. I cannot locate these wires on my schematic. Did your machines have these wires?

    Capture (resized).JPG

    #128 2 years ago

    Definitely addition wires. We need to look at the schematic to ensure the other connections are correct so we can understand why they were added. I will look at the schematic to night as intrigued.

    From memory the game over is when the 3rd out occurs, Power off switch or game is tilted etc. Possibly the op had another reason. Where do they terminate at the back of the game. Seems strange unless they went to the light box door.

    I will take a proper pic of mine this evening and post to ensure the remaining wiring looks right.

    I have attached before and after pic's but they don't fully answer what we need.

    Game Over relay Post Restore (resized).JPG
    Game Over Relay Before restore (resized).JPG

    #129 2 years ago

    I took some better pictures of the Game Over switches as the previous were too small.

    On the bottom are 4 switches and from the outside are;

    3 way light switch (6V).
    3 way switch that cuts power if tilted, and shuts power to the game.
    2 way NC, Bat Coil (110V).
    2 way, NC, Special Relay.

    Upper 2 switches and from the outside are;

    2 way NC, power from tilt 3 way switch on diagram (but is actually part of 2 X 2 way switches on both my games) to Game Over Latch.
    2 way NO, to 0-9 score to beat drum.

    So see if these pics and switch descriptions help you work out what is going on.

    DSC05517 (resized).JPG
    DSC05519 (resized).JPG
    DSC05518 (resized).JPG

    #130 2 years ago

    Thanks Steve for the close up photos and explanation. I discovered that on your machines, there are two sets of contacts in the top row, and on my machine, there are three. The other ends of the two added wires go nowhere and at this time (they sit back by the transformer) are not connected together but appear to have been at one point in the past.

    IMG_20170122_111500_edit (resized).jpg

    #131 2 years ago
    Quoted from kevstang67:

    Thanks Steve for the close up photos and explanation. I discovered that on your machines, there are two sets of contacts in the top row, and on my machine, there are three. The other ends of the two added wires go nowhere and at this time (they sit back by the transformer) are not connected together but appear to have been at one point in the past.

    Yeh, The added wires were added by an op. I would strip them out.

    Obviously as connected to the 'game over' relay they offered power until the game ended. Could have added by the op to power a hidden meter perhaps?

    #132 2 years ago

    Still have not got the machine up and running yet. Thought it had something to do with those extra wires. I am about to go through the zero switches on the scoring reels to ensure these are working properly. I have cleaned up most of the stepper units. I have the credits unit to do yet, but other than being sticky it appears to function ok. I found a bent blade on the main motor unit switch stack. I need to get that straightened out.....no pun intended.

    To start the game, from what I can tell, if I trip the 10 cent coin switch it will add a credit, and start the game. Tripping the other coin switch will add credits based on the jumper settings. I can put a pencil in the start button hole to trip the switch once there are credits, for now.

    I am missing the start button on the front of the machine. Is this available from PBR, do you know?

    #133 2 years ago

    I will send you a start button. Pm me your address.

    At the start of this topic on the first page I listed people that make some parts for baseball games. Scott Webb has a few really valuable things listed like buttons.

    The reels are fiddly also you need to check the switch solder joints. Williams seem to have had some issues in the early 60's that they seem to need resoldering after 50 years. Where is the quality I ask you!

    #134 2 years ago

    Something to note with leaf switches, the start relay for example, be sure you don't adjust them too far, they need to be not only close but let them rub the full stroke. They need delay as they are not instant power on (up) considering the other relays each switch powers.

    A good example of what I'm trying to say is the bat EOS switch, Steve you know this, if you only alow that switch to just touch you'll notice you get extra bats which isn't right. One pitch, one shot at batting. So the eos switch let it touch early, by the time the bat gets to it's end the switch has been touching long enough to trip multiple other relays to make the game know you tripped the bat. Once

    Let the switches trip early as a rule.

    #135 2 years ago

    The Bat EOS switch needs to close momentarily longer than other switches to energize the Bat relay before opening. Its covered in thread #85 in the troubleshooting section.

    3 Bat EOS Switch (resized).jpg

    #136 2 years ago

    Very nice, also the start relay is a major component allowing power to a lot if the game. It's coil is energized the entire time. Check resistance across those switches as well as the health of that coil.

    1 week later
    #137 2 years ago

    Thanks for the additional tips Nighthawk. Just getting back to reassembly of the Score To Beat reels.

    I found one of the moving parts to be worn out on the piece which moves with each actuation of the coil. It's the copper colored bushing in the attached photo. I've also shown the other assembly which has this piece in tact for reference.

    I'm not sure if just this piece is available, or if it's pressed into the hole it sits in and can't easily be replaced.

    I need to check PBR to see if these pieces are available. IMG_20170209_215340 (resized).jpg

    #138 2 years ago

    It's a one piece unfortunately. I was able to find a replacement score reel on eBay and changed one out. If you know someone in your area that can braze I have the two perfectly good parts you can have.

    #139 2 years ago

    Hey Steve , I can fix this . PM me if you can`t find one .
    Scott

    #140 2 years ago

    Ok, I can sent the two parts to Scott for brazing and provide Kevin's address if he agree's and this will all work out. Kevin you agree?

    #141 2 years ago

    Hi Scot,

    Here are the pictures of the one needing brazing. Probably better to make a new part so it can be pressed in a designed. I can send the parts to you if you want to try.

    Kevin,

    Add this parted to the thread for EM Parts wanted. This part is quite common as it was used on all early Williams score reels.

    DSC05554 (resized).JPG
    DSC05555 (resized).JPG

    #142 2 years ago

    Is that a bushing in the score reel? Mine works great but wondering if I should take a closer look. The game works great though right now.

    #143 2 years ago

    Nighthawk - It is used in both Score to Beat reels (0-9 and 10-90). When I disassembled the reels for cleaning I noticed a considerable difference in the amount of play in the in the pivot point due to the worn bushing. I'm not 100% certain if it will impact the play or not, as I have not put it back together yet. I can take Steve's suggestion and ad a request in the EM Parts Wanted section or take g43crazy up on the offer to repair.

    1 week later
    #144 2 years ago

    Did you guys check with MarkG here on pinside.
    He has helped me out a couple of times with obscure em parts.
    Cliff

    #145 2 years ago

    I talked to Steve last week he has those parts.they may be plastic.also there is differences in some of these reels.I'll take pic and show you.stay tuned.

    #146 2 years ago

    See plastic one has built on sleeve.some pins were skinny so plastic sleeve makes up difference, so any gear will fit.supposed to get some drive pawls from Steve today I hope.I will know later today.

    IMG_20170228_105138 (resized).jpg

    IMG_20170228_104655 (resized).jpg

    #147 2 years ago

    I don't know if the one he sells has shaft built on though.you would have to talk to him.if you need part # .I have them or go to planetary pinball and look in online catalog .it has exploded view with part # s.look at will iams 1966 catalog.called ten step unit.

    #148 2 years ago

    Found it.part# A-5581. That little part comes attached to drive crank assembly. That is proper name for part.call pbr and let us know.

    1 week later
    #149 2 years ago

    Thanks Pinballbrian. I'll check with PBR. Thanks.

    #150 2 years ago
    Quoted from kevstang67:

    Thanks for the additional tips Nighthawk. Just getting back to reassembly of the Score To Beat reels.
    I found one of the moving parts to be worn out on the piece which moves with each actuation of the coil. It's the copper colored bushing in the attached photo. I've also shown the other assembly which has this piece in tact for reference.
    I'm not sure if just this piece is available, or if it's pressed into the hole it sits in and can't easily be replaced.
    I need to check PBR to see if these pieces are available.

    Kevin,

    Post your need on this thread; https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-em-seeking-parts-thread/page/63#post-3645832

    I checked again on eBay for a parts reel but no go.

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