William's Wild Card ball unit not resetting correctly

I don't have any paper for Wild Card but there is a schematic and manual for Blue Chip on ipdb.org that might be helpful. The manual shows the Ball Count Unit wipers in the reset position on pg 14.

Do your two photos show the Ball Count Unit in the same position? The gear side photo looks like its at the Zero position because the Zero position switch looks open. The wiper side photo however looks like it is 5 steps up from the Zero position if it's the same as the Blue Chip Ball Count Unit. That would be hard to explain if the photos were taken in the same position.

The Blue Chip schematic shows that the Ball Count Reset solenoid will keep firing until the Game relay trips. If you manually trip the Game relay does the Ball Count Unit stop trying to reset?

/Mark

#3 4 years ago

KGA

pinballman3

Pinside member

Both of the pictures in my first post where taken with the unit in the same position. Here are a couple of pics out of the Wild Card manual of the ball count unit. When they say the picture is of the wipers in the reset position. Do they mean when the ball count unit is at 0 position or after the game has been reset ready to play. I will put 2 pics up of the wipers being in what the manual shows as the reset position. They where both also taken with the unit being in the same position. So could the wipers be 180 degrees off? If so I have no idea how unless the wiper nut is that loss and let it pull out and spin around. I don't think so but who knows. Maybe somebody messed with it without it being known. Thanks

20200219_102242 (resized).jpg

20200219_102252 (resized).jpg

20200219_231353 (resized).jpg

20200219_231402 (resized).jpg

#4 4 years ago

KGA

pinballman3

Pinside member

Oh yeah. To get the ball lights to show up on the backglass the rod/pin sticking out of the gear side has to be over close to the lower coil the way it is now. See the red dot I put on pic. That just can't be right. I am thinking more and more it is off by 180 degrees. Very weird if it is. I am not where the machine is right now so I can't check it. I will dream about it probably. Thanks

20200220_002520 (resized).jpg

#5 4 years ago

MarkG

OP
Quoted from pinballman3:
So could the wipers be 180 degrees off?

I'm starting to think so. In your original picture the white pin on the gear is in the 6 o'clock position and opening the Zero position switch. The 2nd picture of the gear shows the pin at 12 o'clock. What's more interesting though is that there is a tooth (maybe two?) missing from the gear next to the pin. That's a mechanical limit intended to keep the gear from stepping past 10 steps (for the 10 balls to play). I think the tooth and missing gear should travel between the 6 and 9 o'clock positions or 10 steps in about 90 degrees. The ratchet arm that advances the gear one step at a time is at the 9 o'clock position in your photo and the gap due to the missing teeth shouldn't be able to step past that.

It looks to me like the gear in the 2nd photo is in a region that it shouldn't be able to reach where the gap has advanced past the ratchet arm at 9 o'clock.

Your last photo of the wiper arms matches the manual drawing of the reset or zero position. When the wipers are in this position I'd expect the white pin to be in the zero position at 6 o'clock. If you manually reset the pin to 6 o'clock and then manually advance the stepper does the gear take more than 10 steps and get past 9 o'clock?

You could try to back off the nut holding the wiper arms on and let the gear back down from 12 o'clock to 6'oclock. But take lots of notes and photos first so you can put it back the way it was if the change doesn't help.

#6 4 years ago

KGA

pinballman3

Pinside member

I will put the white pin in the zero position. Then take the nut off of the wiper side and turn the wiper 180 degrees of coarse holding the gear side in. Any of them I have ever seen the wiper setup will only go on two ways. 180 degrees from each other. Unless this one is different for some reason. If I do that and it don't fix it I can just switch it back. I will take notes and make sharpie marks though just incase it is different. I have a feeling it will fix it. I was just very confused about it. Maybe that nut is really loose. I did not notice it messing with it though. Maybe the pinball ghost. I will report the results back when I get to it. Thanks

#7 4 years ago

KGA

pinballman3

Pinside member

Ok I turned the wiper 180 degrees and that is what was wrong with it. But not all. Now when I start a game it all does start correctly except it does not start on ball 5 everytime like it should. It might start on ball 2 or 3 or 4 and sometimes 5. As you can see in my first post I have cleaned the unit good and put a light coat of super lube on it. The ball count unit moves flawlessly if I do it manually with the coils. So I am thinking maybe some kind of a pulse issue. Not getting enough power or something maybe. Anyone got any idea what could cause this. Thanks

#8 4 years ago

MarkG

Listen carefully and see if you can hear it trying to take 5 steps during reset. If the Ball Count Unit is clean but still steps intermittently chances are that one of the switches that sends power to the Step Up solenoid is dirty or not properly gapped. This is from Blue Chip again but you'll find something very similar in your schematic.
Blue Chip Ball Count (resized).jpg
Start with the Score Motor Impulse switch in the red box. If that looks good check the other two switches.

#9 4 years ago

KGA

pinballman3

Pinside member

I will check my schematic and check that out. I aimed to put this in my last post. I also realized today that every once in awhile after I got to the last ball and the game was over. when I press the start button to start a new game it would do nothing. I could then go under the playfield and move the score motor just a little and then pushing the button would start a game. It did this about 3 times. It is set to free play. Do you know what would cause this? Maybe the score motor stopping short or running over? Thanks

#10 4 years ago

MarkG