New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 275013)

William's Phoenix stuck in audit mode/ yeah parts! Good and a little bad!


By Gorebash

68 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 30 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 32 days ago by Gorebash
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

15976351541082578085909168948283 (resized).jpg
15976371414259140696144754557140 (resized).jpg
1597637079054392080924932182699 (resized).jpg
20200816_222300 (resized).jpg

#1 68 days ago

Hi all this is my first post and Phoenix is my first pin, recently bought this machine and have done a few things to it to help make it more reliable, machine was working when I brought it home, when powered up it would go into audit mode, battery holder was corroded but there wasnt visible alkaline damage to the boards or chips, I could advance out of audit mode using the advance button on the coin door and then be able to start and play games, which I did of course,I have recapped the power supply, there is one cap I am waiting on yet though and repinned the molex connector from the transformer to the power supply as well, I do have fuse holders to put in for the bridge rectifier as well.
I understand the board to board connectors can be an issue, i have ordered these as well, just havent arrived yet, I did reflow all the connectors on both boards as well, I also have the caps for sound board as well just havent got to that yet.one of the displays is not working either but I have a replacement coming as well. I played it Sunday afternoon and then went to play it Monday evening but it wont come out of audit mode now, I have since hooked a temporary remote battery holder hoping that would help but it still wont come out, I am going to try to link 2 short videos to show what it is doing, I did receive new game roms from pinballrom.com today and tried replacing the roms with no change, the prom that he sent is the one that replaces both mine and uses IC14, can I just remove both of mine and just use his at IC14 or is there more to it than that. Any help would be appreciated and I have gone through a lot of the information available on this site. Thanks Gerald

#2 68 days ago

#3 68 days ago

#4 68 days ago

Lol 2nd video could have used some editing.

#5 67 days ago

I have done some more reading and testing and have found that the 5101 chip appears to be bad, does anyone have a current part number for Digikey, the William's number is 5a-9017, I have looked on their website but I dont know enough to order the right one, thanks in advance for any help!

#7 67 days ago

Thanks Ken but even with the info you gave me I still cant narrow down the search enough on Digikey to get the right one, anyone else order through Digikey
I use them because they are a much quicker alternative here in Ontario Canada.

#8 67 days ago

Get NVram instead of 5101, no batteries needed and lots more vendors can supply. Anything anyone has in stock as a 5101 isn't going to be new production that's for sure. You can probably source some in Canada if needed.

I should sell off my stock of 5101's that I pull from boards and replace with NVram, for a buck or 2 plus the shipping hassle it's not worth it though.

#10 67 days ago

Sometimes you just gotta laugh, thanks for the number Ken buts it's not available on the Canadian site.

#11 67 days ago

Did you try a factory reset via the dip switch to clear everything?

#12 67 days ago

Joydivision I didnt know that can be done, would you be able to explain how it's done or where I can find the information to do it? Thanks Gerald

#13 67 days ago

Actually, first thing to try is flick the power switch off & on rapidly 2 times, this is the usual way to get it out of audit mode to attract mode when power to the 5101 has been lost when the batteries are changed or when the 5101 has been replaced or when the factory settings have been restored.

If this works & it goes to attract mode it should be good now & no need to do this proceedure again as long as the 5101 has continous power from the batteries.

Quoted from Gorebash:

Joydivision I didnt know that can be done, would you be able to explain how it's done or where I can find the information to do it? Thanks Gerald

I can't see it on the Phoenix manual from IPDB, but restoring factory settings is the same procedure for all system 3 - 7 games.

Go to page 15 to the "restoring factory settings" for instructions, bearing in mind you will need to set up all your replay score settings & other settings again.

https://www.ipdb.org/files/871/Williams_1978_Flash_Manual_March_1979_no_schematics.pdf

Failing both of these proceedures try replacing the 5101 next or switch to a Nvram as suggested.

#14 67 days ago

Turning the power on and off quickly wont get it out of audit mode, I have tried many times, on the reset instructions it says you need to be in game
Over mode to start the process, I cant get there and when I switch it to manual and press the advance it just advances through the audit numbers
On the master display.

#15 65 days ago

Just to update I have ordered 5101 and socket from Pinballmedic in Ottawa, should be here next week, hopefully that's the cure! I did find out that changing from 2 to 1 proms on the sys 4 should be a plug and play with no jumpers etc, tried it didnt help enough though to make the Phoenix rise from the ashes! I did get the soundboard recapped last though.

#16 65 days ago

Does anyone have a number for Nvram that I could use?

#17 65 days ago
Quoted from Gorebash:

Does anyone have a number for Nvram that I could use?

It's usually just sold as 5101 replacement NVram - the numbers on the specific nvram chip are going to vary depending on what adapter it's on. Williams games do not need the dual chip enable so you don't have to worry about that.

for Canada shipping, flippers.com has it:
https://www.flippers.com/catalog/product_info.php/5101-nvram-module-p-8734

#18 64 days ago
Quoted from Gorebash:

Does anyone have a number for Nvram that I could use?

for WMS sys 3 and sys 4 both of the 5101 chip enables are used and the FM16W08 nvram chip only has one chip enable. So make sure you get a 5101 NVRAM module that specifically labeled as working in WMS sys 3/4, is "dual CE" or however the supplier my label it for supporting games that use both /CE1 and CE2 pins of the 5101.

#19 63 days ago

Did some other work tonight zeners and resistors for the high voltage side and new headers, I did the caps last week, waiting for parts stinks!

20200816_222300 (resized).jpg
#20 63 days ago
1597637079054392080924932182699 (resized).jpg
#21 63 days ago
15976371414259140696144754557140 (resized).jpg
#22 63 days ago

Doesnt look good!

#23 63 days ago

Cleaned off, no bridging of solder that I can see, board is a little crispy though between those 2 pins, not sure exactly what I did wrong, any thoughts! Going to bed did enough damage for tonight!

15976351541082578085909168948283 (resized).jpg
#24 63 days ago

The connector shown sends power off to the displays. It should have both + and - 90v to 100vdc, +5vdc, and ground. With that connector removed you can measure for the proper voltages. High voltage is more likely to draw an arc than low voltage, so clean out around the header posts as charred PCB material supposedly can be conductive. The char spot does not look like its around the HV tho.

The two diodes rectifier diodes in the 12v to 5v regulator are looking toasty. The originals are 3amp diodes and almost always put beefier diodes in here. Like 6A4, 10A10, or similar higher current rectifier diodes have more mass and should dissipate heat better so not to burn up the area around on the PCB.

#25 62 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

The connector shown sends power off to the displays. It should have both + and - 90v to 100vdc, +5vdc, and ground. With that connector removed you can measure for the proper voltages. High voltage is more likely to draw an arc than low voltage, so clean out around the header posts as charred PCB material supposedly can be conductive. The char spot does not look like its around the HV tho.
The two diodes rectifier diodes in the 12v to 5v regulator are looking toasty. The originals are 3amp diodes and almost always put beefier diodes in here. Like 6A4, 10A10, or similar higher current rectifier diodes have more mass and should dissipate heat better so not to burn up the area around on the PCB.

Thanks for replying barakandl, I am unsure why it is arcing there, I replaced z2, z4 diodes with1n4763, z1, z3 diodes with 1n4730 well as r1 through r6 with proper replacements as well, I thought it would be good maintenance to replace the hv header as well, i wasnt having issues in this area I just thought it would help make the displays last longer as recommended. D7 and d8 diodes were replaced by previous owner, they are the mr500 so I should probably replace those as well, I cleaned up the pcb between pin 1 and 2 and unsoldered the new header just in case I had bridged solder on top, I hadn't so I soldered it back into place and rechecked last night's work, I couldnt find anything wrong so I reconnected the board and checked voltages, I had 89 and 90 on the hv pins and 5 on the 5v pin, so I reconnected the connector and the displays worked, I waited for maybe 2 minutes with no arcing so I turned machine off and reconnected everything else, then turned machine back on it was ok for about 30 seconds then the displays went out and it started arcing again at the underside of the display header again, when I pulled the board this time it was arcing between pin 3 and 4 this time which are the positive and negative hv, I dont know what I have messed up but I triple checked any soldering that I have done and cant find any problem areas, any ideas as to what I may have done would be greatly appreciated, ps I only have 3 of the player displays connected, #4 is not working and I have it disconnected, would that cause the arcing?

#26 61 days ago

There must be something conductive enough to draw an arc. What kind of solder are you using? Flux is not supposed to be conductive except maybe the water soluble stuff at high voltages.

make sure there is no foreign material between the header pins.

#27 61 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

There must be something conductive enough to draw an arc. What kind of solder are you using? Flux is not supposed to be conductive except maybe the water soluble stuff at high voltages.
make sure there is no foreign material between the header pins.

I'm am using a solder for electronic work, I wondered if I didnt clean the flux off well enough? I was thinking I havent repinned that connector and maybe there is a lot of resistance in the old one , I'm gonna repin it and see what happens.

#28 58 days ago

Repinned connector and recleaned the board, installed and powers up, displays working, proper voltages and no arcing so far. Still waiting on parts to hopefully fix the audit issue.

#29 54 days ago

Received my order and guess what no 5101, called supplier and he's hoping for next week, I wish he would of told me he didnt have it! I really am hating writing for parts.

3 weeks later
#30 32 days ago

Well good news is that I received the chip, installed it in the new socket, installed female side board interconnector , installed flipper kit,
Installed rubber kit, plus another wax job, new cabinet flipper switches, finally able to turn it on and it works, but still have a few gremlins
To work out of the old girl, had a rapid fire right flipper which I found had a bad diode and one of the small wires on the coil had a bad
Connection that I fixed, ohm were now in the 86ish range and 3.6, with the bad being 86 and 1.6. Sadly the coil didn't make it a game
Before it totally quit, lol I get to wait for parts again, I do have some connection issues though, I have had it where the displays go out,
The knocker goes and it's dead, I have to restart the machine which sometimes works and sometimes it doesnt, also when I open and
close the coin door the Gi's flicker, I do have a new board molex connector to solder on to the power supply as well as new diodes I hope helps
But I am thinking I may need to repin a couple connectors.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 9.00
$ 12.00
Cabinet - Other
Siegecraft Electronics
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 11.00
$ 14.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
$ 7.00
$ 4.49
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
From: $ 19.50
Apparel - Unisex
ArcadeMade
$ 5,899.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 10.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
$ 14.95
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 19.50
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 139.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
From: $ 64.00
$ 75.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
DBC Pinball
From: $ 40.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
$ 20.00
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Haus
$ 29.95
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Iron Monger Decal Out of stock
Flashinstinct
$ 6,300.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Pro
$ 5,899.00
Pinball Machine
Little Shop Of Games

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside