(Topic ID: 278420)

William's Lucky Ace

By jawsplow

3 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by gonzo73
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Lucky Ace Credit Unit (resized).jpg
Lucky Ace Game relay (resized).jpg
Lucky Ace Coin relay (resized).jpg
#1 3 years ago

I recently purchased a William's Luck Ace machine that powers up but, does not rest. After studying the circuit diagram and poking around, I came to the "coin set-up relay". I took a screw driver and pushed the relay closed manually. To my surprise it lock in and held. The machine then was able to reset. I repeated this a few times and wonder if the coil powering the relay/switches is not at full power/failing. It is clear it is energized as when pushed together locks and holds. It does not draw all the way closed on it's own. It should, yes? The coil is a M-30 1300. I see no other coils with this number in the circuitry to be able to ohm it with as a reference. If that coil is energized should it be pulling the switch closed all the way? The mechanical mechanism the coil utilizes appears to work free and easy. Thoughts?
Thanks!

#2 3 years ago
Quoted from jawsplow:

The machine then was able to reset.

It reset once you activated the Coin Set Up relay and pushed the credit button? Or did it reset spontaneously when you activated the Coin Set Up relay?

The Coin Set Up relay is usually fired by the 25 cent relay after the Score Motor has already started turning. I suspect it locks on because the motor isn't turning when you activate it.

The Coin relay should activate to get the game to reset. Here is the circuit (from IPDB.org):
Lucky Ace Coin relay (resized).jpgLucky Ace Coin relay (resized).jpg
When you activated the Coin Set Up relay the switch in red closed which I think is what let the game reset once you pressed the credit button. If that's the case Coin Set Up switch is bypassing the Game relay switch just above it which should normally provide the path to the Coin relay. If you clip an alligator clip test lead to the blue-white and white-grey wires to bypass those two switches does the game reset normally? If so your Game relay switch probably isn't closing.

/Mark

#3 3 years ago

I turn the machine on and get the lights. If I push the reset button nothing happens. If I then manually push the coin set-up relay closed it locks on. The machine then allows me the reset button to activate the scoring motor which spins, score wheel clear and the flippers work and I can manually trip features on the game and get scores.

Thanks for the response. I will try you suggestion later this morning. Based on my response, any additional thoughts are greatly appreciated!

#4 3 years ago

Are there credits on the game? Does the game start if you stick a quarter in the coin slot as you would do in an arcade? I just picked up one of these games and will be working on it next week.

#5 3 years ago

Cyroute,
Yes there are credits on the game. And interestingly, I had taken them to one manually and they go up to 8 when the score motor spins. Putting a quarter in it has no effect. Your game work properly?

/Mark,
Colors of the wires very hard to be definitive on. I made my best guess based on the switches that close when relay closed. When I jump the blue-white and white-grey (just to clear, it is not for certain I have the proper wires based on colors), when machine is powered up the score motor turns over once and stops. When the reset/replay button is pushed the score motor starts spinning continually. When I lock the coin set-up relay in manually the motors spins several times and stops.
I tried manually locking Game relay switch. It holds but, pops open as soon as power is applied to the machine.

#6 3 years ago

I dont know if mine works I will find out next week when i break it out of storage it has been sitting a while so my guess it will have issues.
Joe

#7 3 years ago

/Mark,
As I mentioned in my last post, the color of the wires is tough to distinguish. The Coin Set-up relay has two switches that close. I just tried the jumper to the wire on the other switch and the score motor cycled half a turn and stopped. When I push the reset /credit button, the score motor rotates once, stops as it should and the game is alive. So yes, if I finally have the right wire, the game now resets normally. Thoughts on why the Game relay is not closing?
Thanks!

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from jawsplow:

the color of the wires is tough to distinguish.

If the wire colors have faded you can always try to find the other end(s) of the wire for confirmation that you've identified the right wire. If you think you have the right wire on a switch, find the other end of the wire on some other device (as shown on the schematic) and see if there's little or no resistance between the two ends. That should tell you whether or not you've got the right wire.

Quoted from jawsplow:

Thoughts on why the Game relay is not closing?

The Game relay is an interlock relay with two coils that pull the armature and switches back and forth between two positions. Once one coil has fired briefly and pulled the switches one way the relay can mechanically hold its position until the other coil fires briefly to pull it to the other position. It can hold either position indefinitely without power even after the game is turned off.
Lucky Ace Game relay (resized).jpgLucky Ace Game relay (resized).jpg
The Game relay in this game should reset or "Latch" at the start of a new game when the Coin relay fires and the Ball Count unit is at Zero. The Total Play Meter and Credit Unit subtract solenoid are wired in parallel with the Game relay Latch coil and should fire at the same time.

Shortly after the game starts the Ball Index relay fires when the first points are scored. The Ball Index relay will in turn fire the Game relay "Trip" coil to indicate that the game has started.

The schematic is drawn with interlock relays in their Latched positions. The schematic in reply #2 shows the Game relay switch open which means that the game has started but points haven't been scored yet. Once points have been scored that switch should close which would enable the replay button. Since this is a one player game you want to disable the replay button just after the game starts but enable it again once the game is in progress. Once the game ends the Game relay should still be in the Tripped position, even after the game is shut off, enabling the replay button.

#9 3 years ago

/Mark,
For what ever it is worth, if you manually take the machine to zero credits, it will not reset as you would expect. If you leave one credit on the machine, with your jumper wire in place, machine resets and is ready to play. While resetting the credits go to 8.? If you reset from the machine from 8 it kicks back to 7 for a second but, then goes back to 8 credits. Tried it multiple times and get the same results. A symptom of my first problem or an other issue all together?

#10 3 years ago

Thanks, a lot to digest. Should I be looking for something stuck or broken in the ball count unit or credit unit reset?

#11 3 years ago

Start by checking the behavior I described. Do the Game relay, Total Play meter, Credit Unit subtract behave as they should? Is the Ball Count at zero during reset? After that you'll need to check the circuits that drive the devices that aren't behaving as they should. Use a meter or an alligator clip test lead to check or bypass switches. If that's not familiar read up elsewhere in this forum on troubleshooting techniques.

#12 3 years ago

/Mark,
I studied the relays layout, removed each of them from the board and while they were off tightened the screws that hold the switch stacks together. Proper trouble shooting technique would have had me test the machine at each junction but, it is cramped in there and wanted cover some ground. So I don't know which one was the culprit. Up shot is the main issue is now fixed. The machine repeatedly resets and plays. I was able to watch the relays you mentioned react as you described. I did discover a bad flipper and the hundred's scoring wheel won't wind back to zero leaving scoring motor spinning. These are all ground I'm familiar with repairing.
The credit wheel resetting to exactly 8 each time still has me scratching my head.
Thanks for your time and expertise. It has helped give another 50 year old pinball machine a new lease on life.
Best Regards!

#13 3 years ago

Do the credits add in groups of five credits at a time up to eight?
Lucky Ace Credit Unit (resized).jpgLucky Ace Credit Unit (resized).jpg
If so it could be that the switch on the 10 cent relay in the red box is stuck closed. The switch to the left of it on the schematic (Imp-C) is on the Score Motor impulse cam and generates five quick pulses for every half turn of the Score Motor. If the 10 cent switch is stuck closed the five pulses would get through to the Credit Unit Step Up (SU) solenoid which would add five credits until the switch just to its left opens up when the credit limit is reached, which could be set to 8 credits in your game.

If the 10 cent switch looks ok, start blocking other switches in the schematic with bits of paper to see which one is contributing to the extra credits.

#14 3 years ago

Need to go to machine and get oriented . I did not notice the multiples on the credit score wheel. I'll check. Thanks
1

#15 3 years ago

MarkG,
You are the pinball wizard. It was the 10 cent relay and a switch marked on the circuit diagram "NO" was in fact closed. The piece of paper between the switches to test the conductivity was gold and gave instant definitive feed back. I can't thankyou enough. No dreaming about pinball circuit issues tonight.
Best Regards,
Bill

11 months later
#16 2 years ago

Is Lucky Ace just the one player version of Dealers Choice?

They seem very similar.
Only played Ace once, but I loved it, and a Huge fan of Dealers Choice.

Cheers.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from gonzo73:

Is Lucky Ace just the one player version of Dealers Choice?
They seem very similar.
Only played Ace once, but I loved it, and a Huge fan of Dealers Choice.
Cheers.

Yes...incredibly successful game.

#18 2 years ago

Thank you sir, I was watching a vid of Lucky Ace, and it hit me, Wait! This is just like Dealers!
Cool.

#19 2 years ago

My friends and I played the hell out of Dealers Choice every visit to Banning.
Such a great game.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from gonzo73:

Thank you sir, I was watching a vid of Lucky Ace, and it hit me, Wait! This is just like Dealers!
Cool.

IPDB has a ton of info on most every EM game. Lucky Ace:

https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=lucky+ace&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#1483

#21 2 years ago

Yep I was just looking at it.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
800
Machine - For Sale
San Jose, CA
From: $ 5.95
Playfield - Protection
The Pinball Scientist
 

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/william-s-lucky-ace and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.