(Topic ID: 112108)

Will this flipper voltage mod work?

By MoSeS_1592

9 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by MoSeS_1592
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#1 9 years ago

I want to make weaker three of the four flippers in my Escape From The Lost World pin. I'd like to do it without having to buy and replace the existing coils with weaker ones. That being said, would it be safe to simply place a properly rated resistor on the 50V line going to the coil to drop the power?

The default coils for this pin are way overpowered and this pin has several playfield plastics vulnerable to cracking.

Thanks!

#2 9 years ago

Another option may be to increase the flipper return spring strength. When rebuilding or adjusting flippers, it's pretty well known that in order to maximize flipper strength you adjust the flipper return spring to be just strong enough to return the flipper to its position at rest. This limits how much the coil has to fight the return spring. So reversing this by making the spring stronger takes some of the punch out of the flippers. Maybe that would be something you would want to try out.

#3 9 years ago

Disconnect one wire from the end of stroke switch. That'll weaken it!

#4 9 years ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

Disconnect one wire from the end of stroke switch. That'll weaken it!

LOL! The return spring suggestion might work well, though. Easy to just cut off part of the original, bend the cut end to a loop and reconnect.

#5 9 years ago

I'm curious why you would want to weaken flippers? Wouldn't stronger, faster, funner flippers be preferable in all cases?

#6 9 years ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

I'm curious why you would want to weaken flippers? Wouldn't stronger, faster, funner flippers be preferable in all cases?

No. As the OP noted, possibility of damage, flippers too strong to make shots.

I can give a few more examples why stronger is not always better. 1) LOTR. The flippers should be strong enough to make the center ring ramp, but NOT overly strong. Why? A CLEAN shot should make the ramp, but an off-center shot should drop off the side or roll back down. Cranking up flippers means the ring shot is TOO EASY and any shot up the middle will sail in. Not challenging or fun. 2) WOZ Munchkinland mini-pf. A strong mini flipper makes it easy to shoot endless double loops (hold flipper up after first shot for second loop.) Again, too easy and boring with a really strong flipper. OTOH, WOZ lets you adjust the coil power individually. I set this mini flipper power down a couple of numbers. So, you can barely make a double loop with an ACCURATE shot, but an off-center shot will give just one loop at best. Much more fun and challenging!

I do see a trend among people new to the hobby who just want faster 'twitch' games. There's a lot more depth and challenge in pinball, even in olde SS and EM games.

#7 9 years ago

yes MoSeS, http://www.parts-express.com/2-ohm-10w-resistor-wire-wound-5-tolerance--016-2
2 in parallel for 1 ohm maybe..

http://www.parts-express.com/4-ohm-20w-resistor-wire-wound--017-4
single for 4 ohm or dual parallel for 2 ohm.

I'd experiment to get it "right", it wont cost much at all. you might need full power through the EOS switch and coil so they arent spongy when held, shouldnt be too tough.

#8 9 years ago

to weaken the flippers quickly and without parts, open the gap on the EOS switch. To really make a sizable difference, the normal 1/8" gap is too small. Go really large like 3/8" or even more. That will weaken the flippers about 30%. And if you want to go back it's a simple adjustment to make it "normal" again.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

to weaken the flippers quickly and without parts, open the gap on the EOS switch. To really make a sizable difference, the normal 1/8" gap is too small. Go really large like 3/8" or even more. That will weaken the flippers about 30%. And if you want to go back it's a simple adjustment to make it "normal" again.

Does this really change the flipper strength? I thought the EOS (end of stroke) switch was there just to switch the coils over from the high power coil to the hold coil. Increasing the gap distance will just make it take slightly longer for the switch to activate (if at all if the switch never closes) but shouldn't effect the power going to the coil (there's a mechanical feature that rotates and engages or disengages the switch). If it does affect the voltage like you suggest, that implies that high power is going through that switch, which I would think would be a major problem.

#10 9 years ago
Quoted from T-800:

Does this really change the flipper strength? If it does affect the voltage like you suggest, that implies that high power is going through that switch, which I would think would be a major problem.

Think of it as voltage over a period of time equation.

A normal 1/8" EOS gap gives you 10ms of 50v to the coil before it cuts off the voltage to the high power coil.

A 3/8" EOS gap only gives you 7ms of 50v, because the high power coil cuts off earlier.

#11 9 years ago

Stern shipped some Meteors with a factory resistor on the upper flipper, I used the eos adjustment method and it did the trick - no more reprobricks!

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

No. As the OP noted, possibility of damage, flippers too strong to make shots.
I can give a few more examples why stronger is not always better. 1) LOTR. The flippers should be strong enough to make the center ring ramp, but NOT overly strong. Why? A CLEAN shot should make the ramp, but an off-center shot should drop off the side or roll back down. Cranking up flippers means the ring shot is TOO EASY and any shot up the middle will sail in. Not challenging or fun. 2) WOZ Munchkinland mini-pf. A strong mini flipper makes it easy to shoot endless double loops (hold flipper up after first shot for second loop.) Again, too easy and boring with a really strong flipper. OTOH, WOZ lets you adjust the coil power individually. I set this mini flipper power down a couple of numbers. So, you can barely make a double loop with an ACCURATE shot, but an off-center shot will give just one loop at best. Much more fun and challenging!
I do see a trend among people new to the hobby who just want faster 'twitch' games. There's a lot more depth and challenge in pinball, even in olde SS and EM games.

The IJ I just picked up has down graded coils on the flippers. Second owner decide the originals were creating too many wild shots and he was right. The new coils still provide all the power needed for the POA or for loops with ought all the crazy air balls in between.

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Think of it as voltage over a period of time equation.
A normal 1/8" EOS gap gives you 10ms of 50v to the coil before it cuts off the voltage to the high power coil.
A 3/8" EOS gap only gives you 7ms of 50v, because the high power coil cuts off earlier.

Leave it to the expert - thanks for the explanation, that makes total sense. Fun to learn something new on a Friday...

#14 9 years ago

Thanks for the replies! I already tried adjusting the EOS swtiches and that helped to reduce power somewhat, but the flippers are still way too strong imo. As a temporary fix (and experiment) I actually stuck a wedge of plastic with a self-adhesive side between the leafs to 'over' bend them to kick out the 50V even sooner and trigger EOS. Believe it or not I was able to get the desired flipper strenght doing this, but over time the plastic wedges started sliding around and eventually fell off of the switches. I'd like a more permanent, less sloppy, and safer fix.

I'm not exactly sure why they decided to use such strong coils on this pin. The ramps are not steep and there is a major abundance of functional plastics all over the place. Furthermore, there are no replacement plastics available for this pin and I doubt we'll ever see aftermarket parts made since this was not a very popular machine.

#15 9 years ago

I am going to try placing a resistor in circuit to see how that works. I'll post the results when I get there. Thanks!

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