The subway ramps are a nightmare on STTNG and are the number one most unreliable, most breakdown prone, piece of hardware in all of the modern machines (not difficult to fix, but too many failure points that completely disable the entire game). It's still a great game though, but besides that and twilight zone (which I am not a huge fan of) and IJ (which I used to be a fan of but alot of people don't put it in their A list) most widebodies are not great games.

A Titles
STTNG
Twilight Zone
Indiana Jones

B Titles
Wizard of Oz
Guns and Roses
Demolition Man
Judge Dredd
Batman Forever

C Titles
WWF Royal Rumble
Road Show
Popeye

Those are I believe all of the modern domestic Widebodies. ( I think Jolly Park is a widebody, not sure of Verne's World).

Going backwards to the Stern's, Ballys, Gottliebs, Williams and Atari's of the early 1980's and most of those aren't great either.
The Atari's are stinkers,
Williams had Laser Ball, Pokerino, Scorpion and Stellar Wars,
Bally had Paragon, Future Spa, Embryon, Hot Doggin, and Space Invaders.
Stern had 7-8 titles
Gottlieb went nuts with over 20 titles (I think nearly every system 80 is a widebody)

...in YOUR opinion. My STTNG went pretty much trouble-free the 5 years I owned it. Played the hell out of it too. I like almost all the widebodies except for Popeye really. That being said, Stern should stick with the standard width machines.

I would like to see what they could do and create one. I always like more space for creativity. Looking forward to JJP next pin the Hobbit and Lawlors original.

I really like wide body's. Woz..
Tz...sttng...wwfrr...all great games that I own. There not leaving any time soon!

No, not in my opinion, but rather "in my experience" as a full time tech. There are too many failure points on it where one thing fails and the whole game cannot continue to function.

3 troughs with 4 optos, 2 optos, and 2 optos. 3 poppers in those troughs 2 diverters, 2 cannon motors, 2 cannon shooter coils, 2 optos in the cannons, the 2 moving wiring harnesses in the cannons, The 4 home and fire switches on the cannons, the drop target that prevents the balls from entering the subway. The tie back wire on the subway, the extra ribbon cable to the aux driver board to run the diverters (and other flashlamps).

If any of these fail, a wire comes off, a transistor or coil burns, or whatever, the game can not load the 3 balls into the 3 subway troughs and the game won't start or play correctly. The software cannot handle any of these things being broken and will cause it to continuously load balls.

None of these are difficult to fix, but the sheer number of failure points makes this a common problem with this game.

agreed kbliznick - for a location game, probably not a first or 50th choice.
but one in home environment and everything is properly fixed, they are quite reliable.
We've sold 3 in the past year and haven't heard a peep from any of them [knocks on wood].

With Stern's crazy pricing, how much would a wide body cost? $10K? $12K for the LE?

Not sure if it would effect tooling for the manufacturing process, but if it did, I doubt they would want to incur the cost of that just to make 1 or 2 wide body pins.

They could knock some money off….just leave out the coin mechs!

JUST KIDDING! No attempt to start a war!

I have a friend who is and operator. He stated recently that his WoZ does not perform any better than his other pins. He said WoZ is average on location.

They already did Flight 2000, Big Game, Iron Maiden, etc.

Will Stern ever consider making a wide body? NO, that costs extra.

No

He might.

5486883144_3d974b85c6.jpg

Only two pop bumpers in a wide body?

My "in YOUR opinion" was to the statement you made that "most widebodies aren't good games". Didn't read that way, but that's what I meant. I say most ARE good games.

We have a few in our collection.... If its a great theme.. I would be in.. To each their own .. All good.

Since when is Roadshow a C title? Just because it's stuffed full of awesome things and yet doesn't bankrupt you doesn't mean it's C list. It's just not over-priced.

Demo Man fits that bill as well....

Later,
EV

Sorry about the confusion. I diu edit my post about the same time you were replying to say most aren't great games. I realized saying most aren't good games was a bit too harsh.

I seem to be taking a lot of heat for my rankings. Better sound and non linear software and I would rank roadshow higher. WOZ to me is a B title once you get past the hype. Haven't played It 'since 3.something on the code, so hopefully it plays better now. Not a fan of the layout or the single ramp.

Back on topic I don't ever see Stern doing a widebody, unless the hobbit starts outselling their games.

Thanks, I just bought this tie. I hope to wear it at Expo.
http://www.zazzle.com/pinball_neck_wear-151600925951693044

Stern doing a wide body, I could see them having two bash toys instead of just one!

Nope, and I'm glad

I would pick many of the 80s titles over some of the modern titles you list just go's to show good theme does not equal good game nether does a wide body game.

...and if they remade these, I would change my vote to Yes!

hasn't Gary said on many ocassions that standard body plays better (because all the action happens vertically), and widebodys spend too much time sideways? I don't forsee Stern ever going widebody unless there's an absolute need for it.

I like widebodies. I like the range in shots. I don't know why people don't care for them. For the Superpins, the flippers are more than powerful enough to make all wide angled shots, which were really the only issue with early 80s machines.

I own them all other than Popeye, and would buy the one I had back in a heartbeat.

But alas, Stern will never make one. If they can't find a way to make the next machine cheaper in some way and yet charge more, and then the next cheaper still and yet charge even more, etc etc etc, it won't get done.

I didn't think Gary would make a walking dead either... I've always liked widebodys, after playing a few pins and walking up to my sttng I think to myself "now this is a pinball machine" lol! I'd like to own a dm man someday just to grab the bull by the horns

I don't often agree with Gary Stern, buuuuut on this occasion:

Sums it up for me. Waaaay too much time spent trying to get the ball back to the flippers as it rolls all over the seemingly infinite real estate of the playfield. I don't need every game hyper fast but I straight up like vertical action better than a ball rolling around side to side off slings and rubber rings all day.

That said... I really like Embryon

The issue is not that a widebody is good or bad but just that it make no difference ether way.