(Topic ID: 104518)

Will Stern ever consider a widebody?


By pinmister

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 37 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by ek77
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    Topic poll

    “Would you buy a new Stern widebody if design and integration was excellent?”

    • Yes 39 votes
      37%
    • No 66 votes
      63%

    (105 votes)

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    One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    5486883144_3d974b85c6.jpg

    #1 6 years ago

    I was playing my STTNG the other night and had an epic game resulting in reaching the final frontier. The feeling was very rewarding and I kept thinking to myself how awesome the design was and how the widebody really made the difference. The integration of the underside subway ramps and the overall layout is truly a masterpiece. It got me thinking, should Stern consider a widebody? It seems like there is only so much you can do with limited real estate. Would more space bring more integration and more for the designers to work with? With the rumor of upcoming Star Wars pinball, I got to thinking it would make for a great widebody pinball title. What are your thoughts?

    -3
    #2 6 years ago

    The subway ramps are a nightmare on STTNG and are the number one most unreliable, most breakdown prone, piece of hardware in all of the modern machines (not difficult to fix, but too many failure points that completely disable the entire game). It's still a great game though, but besides that and twilight zone (which I am not a huge fan of) and IJ (which I used to be a fan of but alot of people don't put it in their A list) most widebodies are not great games.

    A Titles
    STTNG
    Twilight Zone
    Indiana Jones

    B Titles
    Wizard of Oz
    Guns and Roses
    Demolition Man
    Judge Dredd
    Batman Forever

    C Titles
    WWF Royal Rumble
    Road Show
    Popeye

    Those are I believe all of the modern domestic Widebodies. ( I think Jolly Park is a widebody, not sure of Verne's World).

    Going backwards to the Stern's, Ballys, Gottliebs, Williams and Atari's of the early 1980's and most of those aren't great either.
    The Atari's are stinkers,
    Williams had Laser Ball, Pokerino, Scorpion and Stellar Wars,
    Bally had Paragon, Future Spa, Embryon, Hot Doggin, and Space Invaders.
    Stern had 7-8 titles
    Gottlieb went nuts with over 20 titles (I think nearly every system 80 is a widebody)

    #3 6 years ago
    Quoted from kbliznick:

    The subway ramps are a nightmare on STTNG and are the number one most unreliable, most breakdown prone, piece of hardware in all of the modern machines. It's still a great game though, but besides that and Twilight Zone (which I am not a huge fan of) and IJ (which I used to be a fan of but alot of people don't put it in their A list) most widebodies are not good games.

    ...in YOUR opinion. My STTNG went pretty much trouble-free the 5 years I owned it. Played the hell out of it too. I like almost all the widebodies except for Popeye really. That being said, Stern should stick with the standard width machines.

    #4 6 years ago

    I would like to see what they could do and create one. I always like more space for creativity. Looking forward to JJP next pin the Hobbit and Lawlors original.

    #5 6 years ago

    I really like wide body's. Woz..
    Tz...sttng...wwfrr...all great games that I own. There not leaving any time soon!

    #6 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pimp77:

    ...in YOUR opinion. My STTNG went pretty much trouble-free the 5 years I owned it. Played the hell out of it too.

    No, not in my opinion, but rather "in my experience" as a full time tech. There are too many failure points on it where one thing fails and the whole game cannot continue to function.

    3 troughs with 4 optos, 2 optos, and 2 optos. 3 poppers in those troughs 2 diverters, 2 cannon motors, 2 cannon shooter coils, 2 optos in the cannons, the 2 moving wiring harnesses in the cannons, The 4 home and fire switches on the cannons, the drop target that prevents the balls from entering the subway. The tie back wire on the subway, the extra ribbon cable to the aux driver board to run the diverters (and other flashlamps).

    If any of these fail, a wire comes off, a transistor or coil burns, or whatever, the game can not load the 3 balls into the 3 subway troughs and the game won't start or play correctly. The software cannot handle any of these things being broken and will cause it to continuously load balls.

    None of these are difficult to fix, but the sheer number of failure points makes this a common problem with this game.

    #7 6 years ago

    agreed kbliznick - for a location game, probably not a first or 50th choice.
    but one in home environment and everything is properly fixed, they are quite reliable.
    We've sold 3 in the past year and haven't heard a peep from any of them [knocks on wood].

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from dannunz:

    I really like wide body's. Woz..

    I have a friend who is an operator. He stated recently that his WOZ out earns every other machine on his routes and by a considerable margin. He said WOZ kills it on location.

    #10 6 years ago

    With Stern's crazy pricing, how much would a wide body cost? $10K? $12K for the LE?

    #11 6 years ago

    Not sure if it would effect tooling for the manufacturing process, but if it did, I doubt they would want to incur the cost of that just to make 1 or 2 wide body pins.

    #12 6 years ago
    Quoted from Magic_Mike:

    With Stern's crazy pricing, how much would a wide body cost? $10K? $12K for the LE?

    They could knock some money off….just leave out the coin mechs!

    JUST KIDDING! No attempt to start a war!

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinmister:

    I have a friend who is an operator. He stated recently that his WOZ out earns every other machine on his routes and by a considerable margin. He said WOZ kills it on location.

    I have a friend who is and operator. He stated recently that his WoZ does not perform any better than his other pins. He said WoZ is average on location.

    #14 6 years ago

    They already did Flight 2000, Big Game, Iron Maiden, etc.

    #15 6 years ago

    Will Stern ever consider making a wide body? NO, that costs extra.

    #16 6 years ago

    No

    #17 6 years ago

    He might.

    5486883144_3d974b85c6.jpg

    #18 6 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    He might.

    5486883144_3d974b85c6.jpg 31 KB

    Only two pop bumpers in a wide body?

    #19 6 years ago
    Quoted from kbliznick:

    No, not in my opinion, but rather "in my experience" as a full time tech. There are too many failure points on it where one thing fails and the whole game cannot continue to function.
    3 troughs with 4 optos, 2 optos, and 2 optos. 3 poppers in those troughs 2 diverters, 2 cannon motors, 2 cannon shooter coils, 2 optos in the cannons, the 2 moving wiring harnesses in the cannons, The 4 home and fire switches on the cannons, the drop target that prevents the balls from entering the subway. The tie back wire on the subway, the extra ribbon cable to the aux driver board to run the diverters (and other flashlamps).
    If any of these fail, a wire comes off, a transistor or coil burns, or whatever, the game can not load the 3 balls into the 3 subway troughs and the game won't start or play correctly. The software cannot handle any of these things being broken and will cause it to continuously load balls.
    None of these are difficult to fix, but the sheer number of failure points makes this a common problem with this game.

    My "in YOUR opinion" was to the statement you made that "most widebodies aren't good games". Didn't read that way, but that's what I meant. I say most ARE good games.

    #20 6 years ago

    We have a few in our collection.... If its a great theme.. I would be in.. To each their own .. All good.

    #22 6 years ago

    Since when is Roadshow a C title? Just because it's stuffed full of awesome things and yet doesn't bankrupt you doesn't mean it's C list. It's just not over-priced.

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jackontherocks:

    Only two pop bumpers in a wide body?

    Demo Man fits that bill as well....

    Later,
    EV

    #24 6 years ago

    I really like that tie that Gary is wearing in the picture. Trying to find one. I did come across this website with other pinball neck ties...

    http://www.zazzle.com/pinball+ties

    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pimp77:

    My "in YOUR opinion" was to the statement you made that "most widebodies aren't good games". Didn't read that way, but that's what I meant. I say most ARE good games.

    Sorry about the confusion. I diu edit my post about the same time you were replying to say most aren't great games. I realized saying most aren't good games was a bit too harsh.

    #26 6 years ago

    I seem to be taking a lot of heat for my rankings. Better sound and non linear software and I would rank roadshow higher. WOZ to me is a B title once you get past the hype. Haven't played It 'since 3.something on the code, so hopefully it plays better now. Not a fan of the layout or the single ramp.

    #27 6 years ago

    Back on topic I don't ever see Stern doing a widebody, unless the hobbit starts outselling their games.

    #28 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinmister:

    I really like that tie that Gary is wearing in the picture. Trying to find one. I did come across this website with other pinball neck ties...
    http://www.zazzle.com/pinball+ties

    Thanks, I just bought this tie. I hope to wear it at Expo.
    http://www.zazzle.com/pinball_neck_wear-151600925951693044

    #29 6 years ago

    Stern doing a wide body, I could see them having two bash toys instead of just one!

    #30 6 years ago

    Nope, and I'm glad

    #31 6 years ago
    Quoted from kbliznick:

    The subway ramps are a nightmare on STTNG and are the number one most unreliable, most breakdown prone, piece of hardware in all of the modern machines (not difficult to fix, but too many failure points that completely disable the entire game). It's still a great game though, but besides that and Twilight Zone (which I am not a huge fan of) and IJ (which I used to be a fan of but alot of people don't put it in their A list) most widebodies are not great games.
    A Titles
    STTNG
    Twilight Zone
    Indiana Jones
    B Titles
    Wizard of Oz
    Guns and Roses
    Demolition Man
    Judge Dredd
    Batman Forever
    C Titles
    WWF Royal Rumble
    Road Show
    Popeye
    Those are I believe all of the modern domestic Widebodies. ( I think Jolly Park is a widebody, not sure of Verne's World).
    Going backwards to the Stern's, Ballys, Gottliebs, Williams and Atari's of the early 1980's and most of those aren't great either.
    The Atari's are stinkers,
    Williams had Laser Ball, Pokerino, Scorpion and Stellar Wars,
    Bally had Paragon, Future Spa, Embryon, Hot Doggin, and Space Invaders.
    Stern had 7-8 titles
    Gottlieb went nuts with over 20 titles (I think nearly every system 80 is a widebody)

    I would pick many of the 80s titles over some of the modern titles you list just go's to show good theme does not equal good game nether does a wide body game.

    #32 6 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    They already did Flight 2000, Big Game, Iron Maiden, etc.

    ...and if they remade these, I would change my vote to Yes!

    #33 6 years ago

    hasn't Gary said on many ocassions that standard body plays better (because all the action happens vertically), and widebodys spend too much time sideways? I don't forsee Stern ever going widebody unless there's an absolute need for it.

    #34 6 years ago

    I like widebodies. I like the range in shots. I don't know why people don't care for them. For the Superpins, the flippers are more than powerful enough to make all wide angled shots, which were really the only issue with early 80s machines.

    I own them all other than Popeye, and would buy the one I had back in a heartbeat.

    But alas, Stern will never make one. If they can't find a way to make the next machine cheaper in some way and yet charge more, and then the next cheaper still and yet charge even more, etc etc etc, it won't get done.

    #35 6 years ago

    I didn't think Gary would make a walking dead either... I've always liked widebodys, after playing a few pins and walking up to my sttng I think to myself "now this is a pinball machine" lol! I'd like to own a dm man someday just to grab the bull by the horns

    #36 6 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    I like widebodies. I like the range in shots. I don't know why people don't care for them.

    I don't often agree with Gary Stern, buuuuut on this occasion:

    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    hasn't Gary said on many ocassions that standard body plays better (because all the action happens vertically), and widebodys spend too much time sideways?

    Sums it up for me. Waaaay too much time spent trying to get the ball back to the flippers as it rolls all over the seemingly infinite real estate of the playfield. I don't need every game hyper fast but I straight up like vertical action better than a ball rolling around side to side off slings and rubber rings all day.

    That said... I really like Embryon

    #37 6 years ago

    The issue is not that a widebody is good or bad but just that it make no difference ether way.

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