New York, NY
Yep, all those games will be available for pennies when the bubble bursts, just like the last 5,323 times someone made an identical thread online over the past 20 years.
So bide your time.
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Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Ask a different question. WHY would pinball prices come down?
Is there market pressure to lower prices? I don't think so. Demand keeps rising and the secondary market prices have a tight relationship with NIB prices.
Are there any recent development or manufacturing leaps that significantly reduce the effort/time/cost to market? Probably not.
The logic is always the same. "There are a lot of games being made and prices are higher than I want them to be."
And then 3 years later prices and demand are higher.
THe hoped-for recession likely won't help either. During the last recession prices didn't drop, people just held on to their stuff like the hoarding bastards pinball people are.
A full-on economic apocalypse is a different story but in that case we'd all have far bigger problems than expanding our pinball collections.
Quoted from Bigbad:Have to keep in mind that we havnt had a recession since games were cheaper economy has just been continuously expanding. With economists predicting recesssion around the corner I would like to think that we are about to see older game prices drop
And I would like to think I'll start pooping out $100 bills but sometimes wishful thinking just ain't enough.
Going by the past 20 years there's little reason to think your hoped-for scenario will happen any time soon. Older games have been RISING in price just as much as newer stuff, if not faster. Except for EMs.
Buy cheap EMs to your heart's content, TODAY, you don't even have to wait for the economic melt down.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:Ill go agaisnt the grain and agree with you, the recession IS around the corner, i see it everywhere, we are overbuilding like crazy again and houses are struggling to get sold now, new apartment complexes are hard to fill up, prixlces are dropping. The fed sees it coming too. Same shit, different decade
But this isn't a recession prediction thread, it's a "bubble will burst!" thread like thousands before it.
We'll grant you for argument's sake that there will soon be a recession, and we'll all be on soup lines and living in tents, foraging at night for scraps and fighting our neighbors to the death for moldy fruit and old school CRT color TVs. Why would that cause a decline in pinball prices when the previous recession of 2007-2009 didn't?
I love how every economic genius thinks they are the first ones to be right about the pinball market collapse being right around the corner:
2012:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again
2013:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop
2014:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble
2015:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-all-want-the-ass-to-drop-out-of-pinball
2016:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-will-the-stern-bubble-burst
2017:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-we-in-a-pinball-bubble
2018:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-i-feel-pinball-prices-are-going-to-plummet
2019:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-pinball-prices-come-down-
This RGP Post from 2000 is gold! He was probably complaining about a $900 or T2 or a $2000 AFM.
--------------------
Hey all-
Having been following the rgp for almost 2 years now..
I can safely say I've never seen such ridiculous price inflation since I
started collecting.
What's worse is that it seems to get worse every day..
My question to the group is, is this ever going to stop? What do you guys
think?
I've got about 2-3 pins I'd like to eventually add to my "keep" collection.
I've had two reoccurring thoughts:
#1) Man, with prices going through the roof, I'll never be able to afford
what I want in a few years better bite the bullet now and get them before I
can no longer afford them..(never mind I have no space for them!)
#2) These prices are absurd, reality is gonna have to set back in, and in a
few years, I can hopefully get the pins I want for better prices than
during this craze (which i'm hoping would end)..
What do you guys think about this situation?
Any/all comments welcome..
--
Thanks-
Steve
[email protected] (Remove "nospam" from email address)
Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:If there is another economic crash causing people to dump their games at below asking price, then by your logic there won't be anyone able to purchase said games because they too will be struggling to pay bills and spending $$$$ on a luxury device will be last thing on their minds. In actuality during times of economic depression, people forgo excessive external purchases and look to the home for fun, cheap thrills. If anything people will most likely sit on thier current collections. I'd be more worried if I was a manufacturer.
Yeah it's pretty funny that people who can't afford games at current prices think an economic meltdown, the likes we haven't seen since the 1920s, is somehow gonna help them build a pinball machine collection.
You'll be stealing week old bread to feed your family!!!!
Quoted from Darscot:I don't think the economy or a recession is going to cause a decline in pinball pricing. I do think prices will fall in the years ahead as people just age out. I think the industry is just too slow to acquire the next generation. They need to get on the marketing wave and learn to sell when the iron is hot. It baffles me how pinballs are constantly released so out of touch with current trends.
Did you try to wade through the wreckage of the threads I posted from 2000-2019?
People have been saying that for literally 20 years. Yet a new generation of players and collectors HAS stepped up. The hobby is supposed to be dead now that all of the guys in their 40s and 50s twenty years ago are at retirement age.
Quoted from Darscot:Very few of that 20s crowd are buying pins. I think as the current retired collectors start to die out prices will fall. The current 30-40 pin demographic chases new pins.
Right. But plenty of 30s crowd ARE buying pins.
Guess what the 20s crowd will be in 10 years?
They'll be in their 30s and they'll be buying pins. They are playing pinball right now, they just aren't buying.
Quoted from Darscot:This is the point I was trying to make, they need pins in the wild that the young crowd want to play, that will give them nostalgia in 20 years. Are they really going to pay top dollar for the Munsters or Willy Wonka, they wont even know what that is.
You guys need to get out of the house more.
Plenty of 20s people playing pinball and it has ZERO to do with nostalgia. Pinball is in bars now, that’s the primary location. People in their 20s are at bars.
In 10 years they’ll be buying games.
You guys are wrong just like the last 20 years worth of naysayers. Those 20 years of pinball pricing bubble threads are full of comments just like yours.
Quoted from bladerunner:One side: "Fake news!"
The other side: "This time it will be different!"
I am really happy there are so many more games to play.
PS: Just happy Pinball is doing better and having more hobbyists every day.
It's not just pinball, it's more more pinball!
Please don’t accuse me of ever saying anything as moronic as “fake news.”
Quoted from bladerunner:Ok, so you must think this time it is different?
Nah I just like reading old posts where people say “you’d have to be INSANE to pay $2900 for an Indiana Jones!”
One thing is for sure:
Pricing threads remain the cheapest pop on Pinside.
Want a thread that will go at least 2 pages?
BOOM! Just make a "bubble burst" thread. I guess that's why someone does it every three weeks?
Quoted from Dkjimbo:The 24's, Wheel of Fortunes, WPT, Avatar, etc are all sitting longer and longer if they aren't priced well be low 4k.
.
These are among the worst, least wanted Stern games ever made, and the fact that were ever going for anywhere near NIB was a freaking miracle!!
And they still go for Wayyyyy more than they should.
Things aren't fn "slowing down" by any significant measure.
Quoted from dung:End of the day games are too maintenance intensive to maintain for ops to make a real go at them. They do it as a favor to a well earning location. They do it because they are hobbyist that want to spread their passion. There are only so many of those instances though and its not going to change unless someone finds a way to massively reduce maintenance and increase reliability.
Thast's all well and good but IFPA registrations - players and tournaments - continues to rise significantly every year. Home sales are higher than ever. We get a flood of newbies joining pinside and complaining about high prices and asking about bursting bubbles every single month. I personally have had 4 straight years of increasing home sales...I cannot keep stuff in stock.
So how do you conjure that with your predictions of potential doom and gloom?
I keep hearing it but I ain't seeing it.
Just like 20 years ago.
Seriously read some of those old posts. They are as amusing as they are familiar.
Quoted from arcademojo:100% agreed. It was exactly the same way with me. My sales of games slowed down drastically and had more games offered for way below market value then ever before. Whole collection being dumped. I had to turn many down and pass them along to others. I know some people will argue that it didn’t hurt prices because they would still see them for sale at market value but what they don’t know is all the back door deals that were happening at the time.
This is total nonsense. If they were "complete collections" must have been garbage.
None of these bargain dumps ever made their way to RGP or Mrpinball, or Allentown, or any of the other places I was buying and selling games all the time.
Stop encouraging these "bubble burst" people!!!
Quoted from dung:I didn't say immediately I said long term. You seem to live under the delusion that a fraction of location play compared to 25 years ago is somehow going to breed a never ending supply of fresh blood for the hobby. It has an end. Location play died off mid to late 90's for many so the nostalgia factor won't be there which is what drove a lot of us into this in the first place.
Location play died long before the current crop of young players got involved.
By your theory they shouldn't exist. yet they do.
I'm tired of hearing the "nostalgia factor" bullshit. You have to be FORTY YEARS OLD to have nostalgia for pinball at this point.
Quoted from arcademojo:Yes it's CrazyLevi the disbeliever. Once again for the 100th time. Just because you didn't get the deals doesn't mean they were nonsense.
In FACT they were 100%%%%% TRUE AT THE TIME.
However you are correct. You wouldn't see them on RPG, MR Pinball or Allentown. The thing you are missing is most of the deals I got in that time were not advertised. They were people that were ready to sell on the spot and called me. None of the ones I was personally offered made it much farther. Because I bought them or passed them on to others. And most of them would come out and say they knew the games were worth more but just wanted the cash in x amount of days. Also we didn't have the crazy prices like we have today.
Maybe you didn't do enough advertising for games wanted or didn't do it in the right places back then???
Maybe it was just your area or just my area? But like I said, you don't know what you don't see. So you can refuse to believe if that makes you happy. I've been out of buying and selling for many years now and just enjoying what I have so makes no difference to me where prices go.
Great so an imaginary and undocumented marketplace with no evidence of existence occurred where pinball machines were being given away in 2009, which proves it will happen again when the "bubble bursts" any day now. I find it amusing to suggest that none of these bargains or market trends made their way to RGP, Mrpinball, and pinball shows...you know the places where people buy and sell pinball machines, and that these super secret deals that none of us knew about are supposed to prove that yes, the market had collapsed but only a few lucky in-the-knows knew about it.
Back in the real world...
Quoted from taylor34:As much as Crazy says it didn't happen, prices did dip some in 2009.
I will concede that and ALREADY HAVE pointed it out. It was a very small slowdown that was quickly followed by a huge jump that has caused monthly "bubble burst?" threads ever since.
A brief slowdown it was. A market collapse or "bubble burst" it was not. For the most part people just held on to their stuff.
Quoted from arcademojo:Talk about a broken record and over exaggerating. .
Not wasting any more time. Just go back to sticking your fingers in your ears and going Blah, blah, blah in your safe place.
Sorry you missed out on the good deals.
Have a good day sir!!!
We just did a "good deals" show off thread last week!
I got plenty of "good deals" back then and still do. What comes out of the woodwork for people with connections (or just good luck) isn't indicative of the market as a whole and I think you know that. I bought a Jackbot for 1000 bucks a couple months ago and a TAF for 3K last year, does that mean the market has tanked?
Work with me here buddy! 
1 week later
Quoted from Honch:but I sure as Hell didnt find any anywhere. It wasnt for lack of trying either.
They were out there dude!!!!
Just not on RGP, mrpinball, at pinball shows, on Ebay, on Craigslist, or anywhere else pinball people buy and sell games. Or so I'm told. That's how badly the bubble burst back then!
Quoted from Hobbypinball:But they are all hobbies primarily based on disposable income and nostalgia.
Tired of hearing about "nostalgia" as that's clearly no longer true.
Today's current crop of up can coming thirtysomething collector has zero nostalgia for pinball.
It's almost as if you guys continually completely ignore everything that has been said in this thread, and posted over the past 20 years on this very subject that everybody here seems obsessed about.
Quoted from gdonovan:One way to look at a hobby is the number of members entering and the number exiting.
Just because SOME 30 somethings are entering does not mean it is equal or greater than those exiting.
Ask Harley.
Why would I ask Harley? I don't give a shit about motorcycles.
Pinball dude. We are talking about pinball. And you are making the exact same argument others have made for TWENTY YEARS about pinball. Please refer to the key post in this thread where I helpfully put together 20 years worth of these arguments and predictions of doom which never came to pass.
Quoted from Darscot:Is there anyone else in this thread that needs CrazyLevi to post a few more times. I'm still having trouble getting his stance on the subject. I think maybe if he can stubbornly post the same thing about 50 more times it will become clear.
LMAO
You don't seem to have any problem with others regurgitating the same tired arguments in this thread 50 times.
I did you a favor and stayed out of yet another similar moronic thread posted on this last weekend. Some appreciation you showed!
Quoted from gdonovan:And when you pass away?
Personally I couldn't care less, as I'll be dead.
But on the other hand, you could have come up with a pretty sweet strat. Just wait 20-30 years or so and wait for these game to get super cheap!
Quoted from Lermods:Allentown sure was crowded...
Yeah but just wait till all of those people start to die!!
Quoted from littlecammi:So pinball hunting in the future will be done by cross-checking Pinside membership with the obituary column?
Yep. We'll call it "the pinhead sports pages!"
Quoted from UNCgump:If you adjust for inflation, they're not that historically high, esp when you consider what you get.
It's inflation calculator time baby!
I'm trying to figure out why this subject captivates pinside so. It's the easiest way to get a pop without saying anything new or even that interesting.
Is it just that we all desperately want pinball to be cheaper, even though, deep down inside we have to know that's impossible, because if the top games we all want suddenly became cheaper, they'd instantly sell from all the jackals here and the prices would instantly rise again?
Quoted from Darscot:Kettle I would like to introduce you to pot. It captivates you more than anyone.
I am captivated as to why it's so captivating.
Surely you have something more to offer than dull remarks! I think you might have some thoughts on the matter?
Quoted from Marvin:golden age, LOL. not even close.
It's fair to call it a golden rennaisance
Things are happening now that you would have been batty to predict in 2000.
11 months later
Asking prices continue to be higher than ever. If anything They’ve increased since March.
Where are the bargains dammit?!
Quoted from Dr-pin:I'm fine with current price as long as quality, replaceability and mechs reflect game cost.
Looking at my jp pro.
It weights like a card board box. The electronics are the cheapest money can Buy, the playfield looks like the moon and The most advanced mech, are three pop-bumpers.
One of the best things Stern did was get their games down about 50 pounds. I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of lugging these these all over the world.
If they could get rid of another 50 pounds that would be fantastic. Would a metal lower cab hold up as well as the metal heads they make now?
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