(Topic ID: 241913)

Will pinball prices come down


By Bigbad

84 days ago



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  • 193 posts
  • 84 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 70 days ago by PinLen83
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    There are 193 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    #151 75 days ago
    Quoted from littlecammi:

    So pinball hunting in the future will be done by cross-checking Pinside membership with the obituary column?

    Yep. We'll call it "the pinhead sports pages!"

    #152 75 days ago
    Quoted from littlecammi:

    So she'll have a tiny house with a pinball room addition that is three times the size of the tiny house?

    No, she will sell off the pins and go on a European vacation with her friends.

    Been my experience youngsters go through funds like mad, saving is a unknown concept.

    #153 75 days ago
    Quoted from littlecammi:

    So pinball hunting in the future will be done by cross-checking Pinside membership with the obituary column?

    Unscrupulous car dealers do this all the time in the muscle car circles.

    Good friend of 30 years acquaintance passed away unexpectedly last year; his brother contacted me to give him an idea what the various cars and pieces were worth. The vultures were circling before the body was even cool.

    The first offer he got on a 1970 440+6 plum crazy B-body with original 4-speed drivetrain was criminal.

    #154 75 days ago

    Muscle cars is another interesting one, in highschool in the late 80s early 90s lots of kids drove muscle cars. Those same cars today are so far out of a teenagers price range they might as well be on the moon. I know a few guys that still have one but the vast majority have simple moved on and been priced out of the hobby. I can't imagine kids today ever being interested in that kind of car. They are much more likely to spend on experience than material possession. I know prices are still crazy high but will that last forever? Seems like that hobby will eventually age out as well.

    #155 75 days ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Muscle cars is another interesting one, in highschool in the late 80s early 90s lots of kids drove muscle cars. Those same cars today are so far out of a teenagers price range they might as well be on the moon. I know a few guys that still have one but the vast majority have simple moved on and been priced out of the hobby. I can't imagine kids today ever being interested in that kind of car. They are much more likely to spend on experience than material possession. I know prices are still crazy high but will that last forever? Seems like that hobby will eventually age out as well.

    Along that argument, muscle cars are still out there and plenty desirable. Prices are not bottoming out because high school kids cannot afford them. Pinball is no different. Classic pins will always have a demand and owned by mature individuals with more discretionary income.

    #156 75 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Along that argument, muscle cars are still out there and plenty desirable. Prices are not bottoming out because high school kids cannot afford them. Pinball is no different. Classic pins will always have a demand and owned by mature individuals with more discretionary income.

    Peak on Mopars looks to have been 2007-2008, there has been a notable drop off since.

    Some oddball models yes still will attract big cash but the trend the last few years has been slowly going down.

    No one stated they were "bottoming out" but it sure looks like the peak was hit.

    Guys that were money smart cashed out well.

    #157 75 days ago

    I agree.... what goes up must come down.
    Supply and demand...

    Too many games coming out...
    Limited space... too much choice..
    Remakes, vaults etc....

    Prices will come down...

    I remember when few years back when classic bally Williams 93 to 95 wouldn't stay on market for 2 minutes....
    Now it's the opposite and they have come down a lot in price....

    Whoever thinks they will keep going up is silly

    #158 75 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Some truth to this.
    People throwing around 40 year olds and pinball machine nostalgia, got a flash for you!
    I'm well past 50 and pinball games were largely dead in the arcades I frequented in my youth. There might be one or two stuffed in the corner, I can even remember one location which had a Hercules but in the very late 70's to mid 80's on the CRT was king. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Galaga, Defender and the like were all the rage.
    Seeing the same shake out in the auto collectors as the generations that love one decade pass away interest also dies off. People still collect them but the prices fall off along with the interest.
    I tell people at work what some new pins are selling for and they think owners are nuttier than squirrel poop. That is a high bar for the industry to deal with and they will have to or you are going to see the same thing that is going on with Harley right now. Harley threw in its lot with older retired riders and they are all aging out now and sales are dwindling. Younger riders have little to no interest in an overly expensive bike that was marketed to "old people"
    Harley purchased Buell which was suppose to be the bridge for younger riders to transition to Harley but then Harley stupidly killed the franchise. My wife was working for Harley at the time and had a front row seat as this was going on and it is a perfect example of thinking short term and ignoring the long term.
    And now Harley is paying for it. Other industries should take heed.

    I don't know where you grew up, but pinball was most certainly not dead in any of our local arcades(South central PA) in the late 70s or at anytime in the 80s. There's no question that pinball was 2nd fiddle once the Pacman craze hit in 1980. And really, I think the downward trend started sometime In 78 with the arrival of Space Invaders.

    That being said, the arcades I frequented throughtout the 80s always had plenty of pins to play. They were Always located in the back of the arcades and were quite popular, as there was usually a wait to get on them. It wasnt uncommon to see at least 10 to 15 pins in any of the local arcades that probably had an average of 40 games vid/pin on site.

    I think location pinball along with video games pretty much died or started dying in the mid 90s. Thats when the home video game consoles got so good that there was just no way arcades were ever gonna be able to compete with that level of diversity or convenience.

    That same technology is on an upward moving escalator. Theres no stopping it and theres no getting off. I believe that within the next 10 to 15 years VR/AR will be so good that it will be the end of many different kinds of entertainment, including pinball. Just my 2 cents.

    #159 75 days ago

    Supply and demand. Historically it was one machine on location for many players. Now it’s one player many machines in home use. Track pinside or IFPA membership since 2008 and there has been an exponential increase in players. Supply has not been able to keep up as production techniques are hopelessly inefficient. These are not cars or washing machines where 1000s are made in a day or week. In a recession the smaller manufacturers of pins will probably go under, production will fall, prices will probably hold. If you see a downward trend in pinside new membership prices may fall, but the bubble burst seems a way off. Maybe when all the current 40/50 year old males start dying off.

    #160 75 days ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    I don't know where you grew up, but pinball was most certainly not dead in any of our local arcades(South central PA) in the late 70s or at anytime in the 80s. There's no question that pinball was 2nd fiddle once the Pacman craze hit in 1980. And really, I think the downward trend started sometime In 78 with the arrival of Space Invaders.

    Here in Southeastern CT there was no shortage of arcades in the area, they just seemed to explode in growth over night. Almost without exception they were all arcade machines with the odd pin here and there which were virtually ignored. There were arcade machines in every corner store, bowling alley, magazine stand and tobacco shop, it was the damnedest thing. I played Asteroids regularly in a Barkers department store! Can you image the local Sears with a few machines in a corner?

    My mom lost her mind trying to track down daily as I'd bail out of school and hit the nearest place with newspaper money. Hell one downtown arcade had a ROW of Defender games it was so hot at the time.

    The only pins I can recall from my youth are Xenon, Hercules and some EM that was in a drugstore. I know it was an EM, just can't recall which.

    PA seems to be a hotbed of pin activity for a long time, perhaps an oddity to your region? Or a lack of pins an oddity to mine.

    Edit: One thing I just realized, prior to arcade CRT games coming on strong, there was only one arcade in the area I can think of. By 1980-1984 there were perhaps 6 that were in walking distance. And games stuffed in every shop you can think of.

    #161 75 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Here in Southeastern CT there was no shortage of arcades in the area, they just seemed to explode in growth over night. Almost without exception they were all arcade machines with the odd pin here and there which were virtually ignored. There were arcade machines in every corner store, bowling alley, magazine stand and tobacco shop, it was the damnedest thing. I played Asteroids regularly in a Barkers department store! Can you image the local Sears with a few machines in a corner?
    My mom lost her mind trying to track down daily as I'd bail out of school and hit the nearest place with newspaper money. Hell one downtown arcade had a ROW of Defender games it was so hot at the time.
    The only pins I can recall from my youth are Xenon, Hercules and some EM that was in a drugstore. I know it was an EM, just can't recall which.
    PA seems to be a hotbed of pin activity for a long time, perhaps an oddity to your region? Or a lack of pins an oddity to mine.
    Edit: One thing I just realized, prior to arcade CRT games coming on strong, there was only one arcade in the area I can think of. By 1980-1984 there were perhaps 6 that were in walking distance. And games stuffed in every shop you can think of.

    I think youre right. PA has always seemed to be like a hot spot for pins. Especially when I first started looking to buy my first pin, which was about 15 years ago. It may have something to do with our seemingly unusual amounts of strip malls that had arcades. After the arcades dried up the pins must have ended up in local collections. I have no proof of this phenomenon, but I always felt like this was true.

    Ha!!! Our Sears actually had a small arcade as well. It was pretty good too, because the games were so well maintained and there was never any crowds. I loved it!!!

    Your comment about several Defenders being lined up in one arcade really takes me back. They did the same thing around here, especially with Ms Pacman.

    #162 74 days ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    I agree.... what goes up must come down.
    Supply and demand...
    Too many games coming out...
    Limited space... too much choice..
    Remakes, vaults etc....
    Prices will come down...
    I remember when few years back when classic bally Williams 93 to 95 wouldn't stay on market for 2 minutes....
    Now it's the opposite and they have come down a lot in price....
    Whoever thinks they will keep going up is silly

    7395EF70-F2EC-4DBC-A310-755924926145 (resized).png
    #163 74 days ago

    We are standing in the golden age of pinball. Deals abound, but the sky is very far from falling. IMO.

    There will be winners and losers, but overall.

    We are in that golden age and I'm loving it.

    #164 74 days ago

    What's really funny is that I've said and have had many arguments over the years on forums that pinball prices will continue to rise for the foreseeable future.

    Of course I got lit up for comparing a pinball machine to being similar to an investment by the pinball bubble police. I was told if I really thought my games were going to hold their value for any length of time I'm just kidding myself.

    Pins are obviously not something that could ever seriously be thought of as a part of any real portfolio, but they certainly hold their value quite well. Its one of the few hobbies where you can pretty much break even if or when you're ready to move on to something new.

    #165 74 days ago

    If you adjust for inflation, they're not that historically high, esp when you consider what you get.

    #166 74 days ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    I think the next time the economy goes into the toilet you'll see people dumping machines on the market to pay the mortgage. Excess supply and less demand will force prices down.

    I guess that means you'll be selling your Tron VE?

    #167 74 days ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    I agree.... what goes up must come down.
    Supply and demand...
    Too many games coming out...
    Limited space... too much choice..
    Remakes, vaults etc....
    Prices will come down...
    I remember when few years back when classic bally Williams 93 to 95 wouldn't stay on market for 2 minutes....
    Now it's the opposite and they have come down a lot in price....
    Whoever thinks they will keep going up is silly

    Classic B/W from the 90s are coming down "a lot" in price???

    REAAAAALLLLY. Where, pray tell? Uzbekistan?

    #168 74 days ago
    Quoted from UNCgump:

    If you adjust for inflation, they're not that historically high, esp when you consider what you get.

    It's inflation calculator time baby!

    I'm trying to figure out why this subject captivates pinside so. It's the easiest way to get a pop without saying anything new or even that interesting.

    Is it just that we all desperately want pinball to be cheaper, even though, deep down inside we have to know that's impossible, because if the top games we all want suddenly became cheaper, they'd instantly sell from all the jackals here and the prices would instantly rise again?

    #169 74 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I'm trying to figure out why this subject captivates pinside so. It's the easiest way to get a pop without saying anything new or even that interesting.

    Kettle I would like to introduce you to pot. It captivates you more than anyone.

    #170 74 days ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Kettle I would like to introduce you to pot. It captivates you more than anyone.

    I am captivated as to why it's so captivating.

    Surely you have something more to offer than dull remarks! I think you might have some thoughts on the matter?

    #171 74 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I am captivated as to why it's so captivating.
    Surely you have something more to offer than dull remarks! I think you might have some thoughts on the matter?

    I don't think you understand the meaning and context of that idiom. (I totally did a Freudian and put a T in place of the M on the end of that post, LOL)

    -1
    #172 74 days ago
    Quoted from Azmodeus:

    We are standing in the golden age of pinball. Deals abound, but the sky is very far from falling. IMO.
    There will be winners and losers, but overall.
    We are in that golden age and I'm loving it.

    golden age, LOL. not even close.

    #173 74 days ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    golden age, LOL. not even close.

    It's fair to call it a golden rennaisance

    Things are happening now that you would have been batty to predict in 2000.

    #174 74 days ago

    People have predicted 27 of the past 3 recessions ... just buy a game you might like and enjoy it ... expect to get zero dollars in return and you'll be happy when the time comes to sell.

    #175 74 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    It's fair to call it a golden rennaisance
    Things are happening now that you would have been batty to predict in 2000.

    It's true. The 90s B/W pins were the pinnacle of pinball excellence and nothing that cool would ever happen again as far as the online community was concerned.
    But then there was a guy in Australia threatening to remake MM and held onto the rights to do so for years without doing much more than taking people's money. NOBODY ever believed remakes would materialize.

    Actually that business model still works today now that I think of it. But the reality is, no one ever could have predicted 20 years ago that there would be this much of a revival in the pinball world. Its fantastic and all the credit goes to Stern.

    #176 74 days ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    Classic B/W from the 90s are coming down "a lot" in price???
    REAAAAALLLLY. Where, pray tell? Uzbekistan?

    How much was afm, totan, CV, af, etc couple years ago , and how much are they now...
    How long were they on the market before they got sold?
    I'm not talking about Nigeria I'm talking about Canada...
    Restored monster bashes, afm etc were going for 10 to 13 k cad here couple years ago...
    Selling immediately...
    Is it the same now?.
    Maybe in the states but in Canada it's not...

    #177 74 days ago
    Quoted from Liakos:

    How much was afm, totan, CV, af, etc couple years ago , and how much are they now...
    How long were they on the market before they got sold?
    I'm not talking about Nigeria I'm talking about Canada...
    Restored monster bashes, afm etc were going for 10 to 13 k cad here couple years ago...
    Selling immediately...
    Is it the same now?.
    Maybe in the states but in Canada it's not...

    As far as I can tell Totan is selling for more now, than ever. AFM has always been in that 6-8 range (where it is now). Perhaps MB might come down some.

    But look at every other BW title. They are all going up. Adams? Up. TZ? Up. Just about every B-title? Up.

    Have you looked for a BSD, WcS94, Johnny, or Fish Tales recently? Up

    #178 71 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    With the current cost of machines, they might break even on them after several years, that is, if they aren’t splitting and do their own maintenance and repairs.

    There is a GB on location that made almost $24k in 3 years. I doubt the maintenance/time down was even an issue. Granted, it's in a busy area, and it was a popular title also in a known popular pinball location.

    #179 71 days ago
    Quoted from PinLen83:

    There is a GB on location that made almost $24k in 3 years. I doubt the maintenance/time down was even an issue. Granted, it's in a busy area, and it was a popular title also in a known popular pinball location.

    A pinball machine made $24,000 in 3 years?!?

    #180 71 days ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    A pinball machine made $24,000 in 3 years?!?

    Yes sir. That is not a misprint.

    *Edit: It's actually $25k*

    #181 71 days ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    Classic B/W from the 90s are coming down "a lot" in price???
    REAAAAALLLLY. Where, pray tell? Uzbekistan?

    Not sure its price so much as quality - ie B/W from the 90s that are in rough shape aren't moving at "new" prices. There are more parts/plastics etc. available and owners are fixing them up - those will get bought at the "new" prices.

    #182 71 days ago
    Quoted from PinLen83:

    There is a GB on location that made almost $24k in 3 years. I doubt the maintenance/time down was even an issue. Granted, it's in a busy area, and it was a popular title also in a known popular pinball location.

    There will always be exceptions to the rule in the market. Spam sells remarkably well in Hawaii, and David Hasselhoff is big in Germany!

    220px-MontySpam (resized).jpg
    #183 71 days ago
    Quoted from BrianBannon:

    My experience in late 2008 and through 2009 was different, picked up a number of deals that were certainly well below market prices and available to anyone that wanted them. It was probably the last time I bought any pin on ebay. Also, it was the only time I can recall being contacted and offered games by people that simply needed to raise cash and had no interest in buying another pin. It was short lived though, prices picked back up quickly and treated the recession like some sort of speed bump.

    Last time I remember super great deals was that time. It was regular to find people dragging old machines out of the basement to unload them for cheap prices and listing them on craigs list. It had a several year run.

    I use Addams family as an indicator. That machine is now close to 6k for a players condition machine.

    But, It is now in pinball like it was with harleys. New demand is being well met, so resale on your slightly used machine has dropped in value from what it could have brought 4 years ago.. There was a time when you could buy a new harley, ride it, sell it for the same or more than you paid. Not any more. Not for quite some time.

    #184 71 days ago
    Quoted from maddog14:

    Last time I remember super great deals was that time. It was regular to find people dragging old machines out of the basement to unload them for cheap prices and listing them on craigs list. It had a several year run.
    I use Addams family as an indicator. That machine is now close to 6k for a players condition machine.
    But, It is now in pinball like it was with harleys. New demand is being well met, so resale on your slightly used machine has dropped in value from what it could have brought 4 years ago.. There was a time when you could buy a new harley, ride it, sell it for the same or more than you paid. Not any more. Not for quite some time.

    Careful there or you’ll have crazylevi rambling on again how it never happened.
    But yeah had the same experience those years. The average Joe home owners were selling their games like hot cakes. Whole collections at a time. Usually something like 1 to 3 pins and a few arcades. It was a great time for buying.

    #185 71 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    This RGP Post from 2000 is gold! He was probably complaining about a $900 or T2 or a $2000 AFM.
    --------------------
    Hey all-
    Having been following the rgp for almost 2 years now..
    I can safely say I've never seen such ridiculous price inflation since I
    started collecting.
    What's worse is that it seems to get worse every day..
    My question to the group is, is this ever going to stop? What do you guys
    think?
    I've got about 2-3 pins I'd like to eventually add to my "keep" collection.
    I've had two reoccurring thoughts:
    #1) Man, with prices going through the roof, I'll never be able to afford
    what I want in a few years better bite the bullet now and get them before I
    can no longer afford them..(never mind I have no space for them!)
    #2) These prices are absurd, reality is gonna have to set back in, and in a
    few years, I can hopefully get the pins I want for better prices than
    during this craze (which i'm hoping would end)..
    What do you guys think about this situation?
    Any/all comments welcome..
    --
    Thanks-
    Steve
    sell...@hotmail.nospam.com (Remove "nospam" from email address)

    Well he wasn't wrong. Pin prices have increased like crazy. I cant buy them anymore but I don't whine about it either... much.

    #186 71 days ago
    Quoted from PinLen83:

    Yes sir. That is not a misprint.
    *Edit: It's actually $25k*

    That's gotta be the outlier of all outliers.

    Where is the location?

    #187 71 days ago
    Quoted from PinLen83:

    Yes sir. That is not a misprint.
    *Edit: It's actually $25k*

    A stern Pinball made 25K dollars in 3 years ? How many playfields, boards, coils did it go through?

    #188 71 days ago
    Quoted from whitey:

    A stern Pinball made 25K dollars in 3 years ? How many
    playfields, boards, coils did it go through?

    How many PF’s? You likely don’t like Sterns and that is
    totally ok, but you really think you need to change out PF’s before
    a stern game hits 25,000 plays? Let me find the ST on location
    link.

    Not all make it that long but this one got in the $25000 in
    earnings range

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-star-trek-with-4938-plays-pics

    #189 70 days ago
    Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

    How many PF’s? You likely don’t like Sterns and that is
    totally ok, but you really think you need to change out PF’s
    before
    a stern game hits 25,000 plays? Let me find the ST on
    location
    link.
    Not all make it that long but this one got in the $25000 in
    earnings range

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-star-trek-with-4938-plays-pics

    It’s not in the $25k range... it’s in the $15k range. Op says he had a 50/50 split. So the game has paid for itself and a little extra.

    #190 70 days ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    It’s not in the $25k range... it’s in the $15k range. Op says he
    had a 50/50 split. So the game has paid for itself and a little
    extra.

    Hmmm. That is a bad split if one of his games does that much volume. He needs to renegotiate

    #191 70 days ago
    Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

    Hmmm. That is a bad split if one of his games does that much
    volume. He needs to renegotiate

    I’m super impressed it’s made that much - of course, that’s spread over 4+ years. You start doing the math and you’re not making much.

    It would be really interesting to calculate the machines monetary impact on the location... although the variables you’d need to track would require some pretty heady research and stats analysis. Could be done... but you’d probably piss off all of your customers with the process

    #192 70 days ago

    I'm sure prices will continue to rise until the day before I
    decide to sell mine, thats the day they plummet and will be worthless.

    #193 70 days ago
    Quoted from whitey:

    A stern Pinball made 25K dollars in 3 years ? How many
    playfields, boards, coils did it go through?

    Original play field. Only required general maintenance. No
    catastrophic failures. Maybe a board failure here or there. Can't say with authority about the boards that failed or didn't.

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