Flint, MI
Quoted from LTG:I don't think they've had a weak seller.
With reruns of the title, later maybe a vault edition. Things seem to be going good.
LTG : )™
(Topic ID: 125482)
Utrecht
Quoted from CrazyLevi:And we don't know shit about how Nelly is selling vs. how they expected it to sell.
This comment made me wonder whether Stern is keeping track of expected sales vs actual sales (and some logical consequenses related to that).
Regina, SK
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Nellie is not a regular Stern game....it's a boutique pin made in partnership. They are not being made in normal Stern quantities and there will be no surplus surprises here. No reason for OP to even bring it up.
TWD is selling just fine (not my favorite), so I'm not sure why it was brought up. The fact that they brought out a Premium after the fact shows the the LE sold out quick. Lyman has said, even with it's incomplete code, it's performing well on location.
Wrong facts, wrong conclusions.
Go back and read my original comment. "Nelly. Ok, not really a Stern game, but their finger prints are all over it." Although its not a Stern game, Stern is promoting it. Hell, there is even a cartoon Gary Stern advertising it. That's why, I, the OP, brought it up. Geez.
Don't know where your getting your facts about Walking Dead either, but just look at the popularity of the game posted here alone. NIB units aren't even selling and those open used ones are taking a huge hit. Of course your going to support your own child, but doesn't mean the facts are true about it doing well on location. Heck, I have no interest in WrestleMania, Nelly nor Kiss but I will play them on location.
To quote yourself, Wrong Fact, Wrong Conclusions.
Quoted from Riffbear:Kiss would be a hit like Rolling Stones. LOL
Rolling Stones should have been pretty huge. To me, its evidence that a bad game won't sell regardless of theme. I'm not really a Rolling Stones fan, but if that pin had been as cool as AC/DC or Metallica, I still would have loved to have it.
Its different than Kiss, where I'd actually be averse and somewhat embarrassed by owning it.
Edit: I meant to add that I'm not a Star Trek fan, but thats going to be my next game. Its cool enough to overcome the theme for me. Can't imagine Kiss doing that.
Quoted from Pins4me:Go back and read my original comment. "Nelly. Ok, not really a Stern game, but their finger prints are all over it." Although its not a Stern game, Stern is promoting it. Hell, there is even a cartoon Gary Stern advertising it. That's why, I, the OP, brought it up. Geez.
Don't know where your getting your facts about Walking Dead either, but just look at the popularity of the game posted here alone. NIB units aren't even selling and those open used ones are taking a huge hit. Of course your going to support your own child, but doesn't mean the facts are true about it doing well on location. Heck, I have no interest in WrestleMania, Nelly nor Kiss but I will play them on location.
To quote yourself, Wrong Fact, Wrong Conclusions.
Alright, Vern, let's break it down at a 6th grade level.
You were stating that Nellie would be a weak seller, part of "3 in a row" from Stern. This is not a regular run, it is a novelty, and is not intended to be a big seller. You're argument is broken at this juncture already, but let's dive further.
Where are you getting your facts about TWD? Please, reveal your "inside" information! Simple logic shows us the the LE sold out quickly, and warranted the Premium version. This was the first time Stern didn't announce a Premium at launch, and its existence is based solely on the demand with the LE selling out. Lyman Sheets himself, as well as Ops on Pinside have stayed that it performs well on location. Hell, the TV show is huge, and even the non-pinheads will drop change into it based on the theme alone.
So, you're entire "3 in a row" argument has no merit. Take a good look in the mirror, accept your failure, let it wash over you, and try to better yourself.
I don't think they make Kiss. Metallica and ACDC still tour and get a lot of radio play, big fan base with fans still in their 20's and up.
Kiss, not so much. Fans older (40's and up) base smaller, and music not relevant - no real radio play, even on classics stations.
Quoted from RTR:I don't think they make Kiss. Metallica and ACDC still tour and get a lot of radio play, big fan base with fans still in their 20's and up.
Kiss, not so much. Fans older (40's and up) base smaller, and music not relevant - no real radio play, even on classics stations.
They've made WWE and have clearly made a few other very strange decisions.
So who knows? Kiss would be a huge step backwards. They should do Iron Maiden or Pink Floyd.
Personally think Pink Floyd could be a huge hit tho I'm not even a fan of the band. Just imagine what they could come up with using the floyd……
Quoted from Pins4me:Before everyone gets upset, I am not slamming Stern. Love their games and thank goodness they exist.
But first they came out with WrestleMania. They missed the popularity window by a decade or more.
Then Nelly. Ok, not really a Stern game, but their finger prints are all over it.
Now things are looking more and more realistic that Kiss will be the next pin.
So, will Kiss sell well, or be the 3rd(ish) weak machine in a row?
I say ish because Mustang sales started slow, but I think more and more people are warming up to it and its gaining some steam. Walking Dead is borderline. The machine had such great potential. What timing to release that title, but Stern kind of crippled it without the full license and horrible voices. Now people are unloading it and selling them for much less than they should get.
Don't get me wrong, yes, each one of these titles will sell some and I am sure Kiss will sell more than the previous 2. But the mass appeal I don't think will be there. I would think Stern cant afford to keep making weak sellers.
This is irrelevant. Cycle time is "king". If you have a theme that does not sell. Make another theme. Just do it fast enough that it does not matter. Stern is a business. It is all about driving speed. Move faster then the next person. KISS will sell a bunch and then they move on. NEXT!!!
Quoted from jar155:I don't know why everybody thinks that Iron Maiden would be a big hit. So many people outright hate metal. Far more than enjoy it. On top of the music genre, the art isn't a super great fit for many others.
I agree in one sense but in another, back in the day the fundies hated both bands pretty equally. Fade to Black was supposed to be a suicide song, Eddie was some sort of D&D demon or whatever. Very few of the people I see loving that machine (or AC/DC for that matter) seem to be big fans, they just dig the machine. Heck, I'd love to see a Ghost (Ghost BC in the US) machine made for the hysterically fake Satanic pop-metal band from Sweden but there's obviously no commercial argument to made there. =) Metal and pinball make as much sense to me as the horror/zombie fetish, or tha boobies. Guys + beer (or what have you) + nerdy fun = these themes, even for the otherwise respectable in the group. Personally, I think the licensing approach would want to seek out cult themes more than commercial, even if just to swing the balance of development costs towards the actual game and away from the lawyers.
I do know this though (I'm 39): my 7-year-old came home from playing pinball and promptly made an AC/DC Pandora station on her laptop. She's declared herself a fan and even said that was the machine she'd like in her bedroom - but she doesn't want it under the bunk bed, "in case the bed breaks and falls on it!"
Quoted from emkay:I do know this though (I'm 39): my 7-year-old came home from playing pinball and promptly made an AC/DC Pandora station on her laptop. She's declared herself a fan and even said that was the machine she'd like in her bedroom - but she doesn't want it under the bunk bed, "in case the bed breaks and falls on it!"
Hah, that's really cute. My 5-year old loves AC/DC (the pinball machine) too. He calls it the "underneath game" because of the lower playfield.
Quoted from jar155:Hah, that's really cute. My 5-year old loves AC/DC (the pinball machine) too. He calls it the "underneath game" because of the lower playfield.
lol.. It annoys me, she gets down there more often than I do.
Quoted from Cornelius:I bet a Nirvana pin would be hot.
And a hip-hop pin would be really cool too! Please don't flame about the validity of hip-hop as an art form. I know, I know, some people love it, most people hate it. I used to love it and now I hate it and I feel like a grumpy old man, telling kids to get off my lawn with their A$AP Whatevers.
As much as I hate the idea, you're probably right - a Nirvana pin could be hot. Maybe not just yet but if the interest keeps growing, I could see one for the rapidly approaching 30th anniversary. Yeah, that's right: 30. Grumpy old man indeed. That said if aiming for a demographic were the plan, I would think a Rush pinball machine could be a sleeper hit.
Oh and I love hip-hop and listen to quite a bit of it (A$AP Rocky, Jedi Mind Tricks, Lupe Fiasco, etc) but I couldn't see any marketability in the pinball world unless someone like Snoop got behind it. There's still a significant... um, cultural.. divide. Bit of a homogenous hobby in my experience.
It would be a mistake. You have to give yourself a chance of selling big numbers. I don't know about the US but in the UK ( and likely most of Europe ) it's a very bad idea. So bad you would probably sell more Gary Glitter machines.
Quoted from dgoett:that why they sell out every show they perform here?
Im happy they are, I just have the impression that bands like metallica, acd/dc and kiss assumably are "bigger" amongst more people in US, than Iron Maidne. Although I hope im wrong 
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Alright, Vern, let's break it down at a 6th grade level.
You were stating that Nellie would be a weak seller, part of "3 in a row" from Stern. This is not a regular run, it is a novelty, and is not intended to be a big seller. You're argument is broken at this juncture already, but let's dive further.
Where are you getting your facts about TWD? Please, reveal your "inside" information! Simple logic shows us the the LE sold out quickly, and warranted the Premium version. This was the first time Stern didn't announce a Premium at launch, and its existence is based solely on the demand with the LE selling out. Lyman Sheets himself, as well as Ops on Pinside have stayed that it performs well on location. Hell, the TV show is huge, and even the non-pinheads will drop change into it based on the theme alone.
So, you're entire "3 in a row" argument has no merit. Take a good look in the mirror, accept your failure, let it wash over you, and try to better yourself.
Ok Harold, lets break it down further. Like it or not, Stern sold Nelly, its their DNA. Why would you make a machine if it wasn't going to be a seller? Limited run or not, if its not going to sell, then don't make it! Bad seller.
When did I say I had inside information??????????????????? Now your spreading rumors about me.
Of course there would be demand for a game like Walking Dead. That title alone sold tons, but once the machines hit the market, the demand went away and people started selling their machines because it didn't live up to expectations. Yes, the tv show is great! Best show on tv, but the pin fell flat. It was crippled because of licensing issues.
Take Star Wars as an example. If they even hint at making it, the pure energy of this site alone will help determine how many units could be sold. Maybe Stern will say only an LE then once those are presold move onto the Premium. Then if the game hit the market and it was Jar Jar Binks making all the voice call outs and the game stunk, that title would fall flat too!
Look at Star Trek. Paramount bent of backwards to provide voices and music. Star Trek is a rock solid seller. I even hear its going back on the assembly line to make more.
AMC keep their license too tight. Walking Dead failed as a pin.
I have already said this, but you didn't listen. If I were Lyman Sheets I would be telling the public Walking Dead is the best machine Stern has ever made. Stern should keep him happy and positive especially on a machine that's flat.
Dude, look at the ads here on Pinside alone. People are dumping WD. No one is buying new ones. Everyone is taking a loss. I wish I could wear your John Lennon rose glasses and see things differently as you do, but sorry, Nelly and WD and lemons. No one is making lemonade of this one either. There is no POP for WrestleMania either. About the only thing going for it is the new hardware and LCD monitor. Once that wears off, its dead.
I have already stated I love Stern machines. Without them still in existence, its possible this website wouldn't exist because more vendors may have had no interest in making new machines. This thread isn't a slam Stern one. Its the opposite. I don't want to see them dig themselves into a hole of bad seller after another after another. You can keep your rose colored glasses on and say their sales will be fine, but you can only make so many bad sellers in a row before action will need to be taken.
Things look positive for Stern right now moving into a new location. They probably took on more staff to do so. Lets all help keep the money flowing. But if very few of us are going to buy the next machine, that river of cash turns into a stream then a trickle.
Quoted from RTR:I don't think they make Kiss. Metallica and ACDC still tour and get a lot of radio play, big fan base with fans still in their 20's and up.
Kiss, not so much. Fans older (40's and up) base smaller, and music not relevant - no real radio play, even on classics stations.
I'm not sure what the fixation is with appealing to young people... They aren't the market, you can't force them to be the market. Making a game for people that aren't going to buy anyway is foolish.
Even though I still don't like Kiss as a theme (I'd be on Iron Maiden like a winter coat!), its precisely the music theme they've been successful with -old, but active bands. Its mostly old crusty dudes with cash buying them.
Trouble is Metallica and especially AC/DC are cool. ( to old and some young ) The latter have had recent massive tours and big selling albums. Kiss are not cool to anyone except a few out and out fans.
Quoted from Pins4me:Ok Harold, lets break it down further. Like it or not, Stern sold Nelly, its their DNA. Why would you make a machine if it wasn't going to be a seller? Limited run or not, if its not going to sell, then don't make it! Bad seller.
When did I say I had inside information??????????????????? Now your spreading rumors about me.
Of course there would be demand for a game like Walking Dead. That title alone sold tons, but once the machines hit the market, the demand went away and people started selling their machines because it didn't live up to expectations. Yes, the tv show is great! Best show on tv, but the pin fell flat. It was crippled because of licensing issues.
Take Star Wars as an example. If they even hint at making it, the pure energy of this site alone will help determine how many units could be sold. Maybe Stern will say only an LE then once those are presold move onto the Premium. Then if the game hit the market and it was Jar Jar Binks making all the voice call outs and the game stunk, that title would fall flat too!
Look at Star Trek. Paramount bent of backwards to provide voices and music. Star Trek is a rock solid seller. I even hear its going back on the assembly line to make more.
AMC keep their license too tight. Walking Dead failed as a pin.
I have already said this, but you didn't listen. If I were Lyman Sheets I would be telling the public Walking Dead is the best machine Stern has ever made. Stern should keep him happy and positive especially on a machine that's flat.
Dude, look at the ads here on Pinside alone. People are dumping WD. No one is buying new ones. Everyone is taking a loss. I wish I could wear your John Lennon rose glasses and see things differently as you do, but sorry, Nelly and WD and lemons. No one is making lemonade of this one either. There is no POP for WrestleMania either. About the only thing going for it is the new hardware and LCD monitor. Once that wears off, its dead.
I have already stated I love Stern machines. Without them still in existence, its possible this website wouldn't exist because more vendors may have had no interest in making new machines. This thread isn't a slam Stern one. Its the opposite. I don't want to see them dig themselves into a hole of bad seller after another after another. You can keep your rose colored glasses on and say their sales will be fine, but you can only make so many bad sellers in a row before action will need to be taken.
Things look positive for Stern right now moving into a new location. They probably took on more staff to do so. Lets all help keep the money flowing. But if very few of us are going to buy the next machine, that river of cash turns into a stream then a trickle.
As far as WNBJM is concerned, price point is too high. Just won't sell in real numbers.
Twdle sold out quickly, pros sold great, so stern schlepped up a preemie version. It's a great pin despite the disappointed VO's, and the le's aren't making a run for the bank in buyers remorse sales #'s. In fact, your the lone voice of strongest hatred on this title, which is fine by me, but don't present your opinion as facts.
Quoted from TOK:Rolling Stones should have been pretty huge. To me, its evidence that a bad game won't sell regardless of theme. I'm not really a Rolling Stones fan, but if that pin had been as cool as AC/DC or Metallica, I still would have loved to have it.
Its different than Kiss, where I'd actually be averse and somewhat embarrassed by owning it.
Edit: I meant to add that I'm not a Star Trek fan, but thats going to be my next game. Its cool enough to overcome the theme for me. Can't imagine Kiss doing that.
Want more than one thumbs up for this. I would have LOVED a Rolling Stones pin, I love the band. But the pin is so meh I just could not do it. Makes me wish for another RS pin lol. It's like they killed that band ever getting a good pin - which is a huge shame.
Quoted from jungle:Trouble is Metallica and especially AC/DC are cool. ( to old and some young ) The latter have had recent massive tours and big selling albums. Kiss are not cool to anyone except a few out and out fans.
+1
Quoted from seven:I'm waiting for the Hootie and the Blowfish pin. That would be epic!
Pretty sure that license is unavailable, but don't be surprised if Stern comes out with Experts of Darius.
Quoted from rommy:Want more than one thumbs up for this. I would have LOVED a Rolling Stones pin, I love the band. But the pin is so meh I just could not do it. Makes me wish for another RS pin lol. It's like they killed that band ever getting a good pin - which is a huge shame.
The Bally pin is fantastic. Just finished my full restoration. Backglass art is alittle rough on the eyes but the gameplay is excellent.
Quoted from underlord:. . . your the lone voice of strongest hatred on this title, which is fine by me, but don't present your opinion as facts.
First off, I don't hate TWD. Lets correct that FACT right there. Its one of my go to machines whenever I hit the arcade. The call outs being replaced with the directions here really improve the overall game. Otherwise, the hick that sounds like he is from The Dukes of Hazzard just doesn't cut it for most. But arcades aren't allowed to alter machines like that due to licensing issues.
Second, my voice is not alone. I guess you choose to ignore all the disappointed peoples opinions in this title on Pinside alone. The game had such potential. The topic was prime. The licensing issues crippled it.
Third, if you go back and read my initial post, I don't even list TWD as the topic of this thread. I stated TWD was boarderline. Hence asking pinheads if they thought Kiss would be the "3rd ish" weak seller. Nelly first, WrestleMania being second.
So please, don't present your opinion as facts.
Personally I'm not big at all on band themes but do find AC/DC to be a great game. Metallica is only so-so to me. I think the game's sells will depend on how good it plays, artwork, and the usual criteria. Seems crazy to me that Stern is doing another band past their prime, but consistent with band themes of RS, Metallica, and now KISS. Wonder if they'll ever do one of a band that is more modern and still marketable to the younger generation of Pinball buyers than these other bands?
Quoted from rommy:Want more than one thumbs up for this. I would have LOVED a Rolling Stones pin, I love the band. But the pin is so meh I just could not do it.
I happen to really like The Rolling Stones LE it is fast and has great flow. I also like Elvis, AC/DC, and Metallica. The music pins have been a success in my opinion and I look forward to Kiss or any other music pins. With most pins going into bars or bar-cades it only makes sense to have a music pin on location-bring it on Stern.
Quoted from jints56:3 things for me to consider buying a Kiss (if it comes out)
1. Price
2. Code development
2. Must be early music before the disco crap started
hehe.... it would be a crap pin playing "i was made for loving you".....
Quoted from MinusWorlds:Why can't somebody just make a Led Zeppelin pin?!? Mama Mia you want to talk about a hot pin?!?
Here's the back glass.
image.jpg
nah.... IRON MAIDEN would be the most obvious choice!!!!
Quoted from Pins4me:First off, I don't hate TWD. Lets correct that FACT right there. Its one of my go to machines whenever I hit the arcade. The call outs being replaced with the directions here really improve the overall game. Otherwise, the hick that sounds like he is from The Dukes of Hazzard just doesn't cut it for most. But arcades aren't allowed to alter machines like that due to licensing issues.
Second, my voice is not alone. I guess you choose to ignore all the disappointed peoples opinions in this title on Pinside alone. The game had such potential. The topic was prime. The licensing issues crippled it.
Third, if you go back and read my initial post, I don't even list TWD as the topic of this thread. I stated TWD was boarderline. Hence asking pinheads if they thought Kiss would be the "3rd ish" weak seller. Nelly first, WrestleMania being second.
So please, don't present your opinion as facts.
You are not good at turning things around. But you do like to argue... 
Inflame much? 
I had stated in other twd threads that if this pin was a turd, regardless of theme, that I would not endorse it. License issues and VO's are minor minor parts of this pin. Flow, replay potential, immersion, all better aspects.
I have zero interest in wwe, used to watch in the eighties, not since. Mustang is actually a very fun pin, even a Pro on location. I enjoyed it.
So, will Kiss be 'weak-ish' pin #3? Only Stern will know for sure, but we can watch for a preemie version and if none can happily assume.
One thing I know for sure.... it will be one hell of a beautiful machine.... I love KISS (and IM, Metallica, AC/DC, Slayer, Exodus, Testament.... list goes on....) and even if the KISS gameplay does not turns out awesome, there's no way of going wrong with the external art!
Quoted from AlexSMendes:nah.... IRON MAIDEN would be the most obvious choice!!!!
1428410536.jpg
Iron Maiden would be a bigger dud than Kiss, regardless of all the cool artwork..
Iron Maiden's artwork would be a disaster for mainstream adoption. It's the kind of crap that you associate with the weird kids in high school who wore trench coats and black boots. That stuff disappears from your home by the time you're 20 unless you're committed to that ponytail and wallet chain lifestyle.
Idk why so many slam kiss as a theme, if the machine is in the same league as metallica and acdc id certainly be tempted!
By no means a kiss fan but it's a great theme and the music (even the disco stuff) is pretty damn memorable.
Not really a relevant band tho i guess but rather kiss than anyrhing in the current top 10 thats for sure!!
Quoted from jar155:Iron Maiden's artwork would be a disaster for mainstream adoption. It's the kind of crap that you associate with the weird kids in high school who wore trench coats and black boots. That stuff disappears from your home by the time you're 20 unless you're committed to that ponytail and wallet chain lifestyle.
Maybe you'd prefer a justin bieber or lady gaga pin machine - what can you tell me about those "weird kids" who also listens to AC/DC and Metallica?
Quoted from AlexSMendes:Maybe you'd prefer a justin bieber or lady gaga pin machine - what can you tell me about those "weird kids" who also listens to AC/DC and Metallica?
It's a perception thing. Both Metallica and AC/DC are more accepted by the mainstream. You hear Metallica and AC/DC at sporting events in the stadium, you see their stuff in ads, and many of their songs are recognizable (without instant negative connotation) by millions of people who aren't fans of either band. You play "You Shook me all Night Long" and you'll have dudes in their 60s tapping their feet and teenage girls singing along. Play "Enter Sandman" and the same thing happens. Pull out some Iron Maiden and watch those same people just wait for it to end.
KISS enjoys mainstream love too as their songs appear often on classic rock and mainstream rock stations.
Quoted from AlexSMendes:Maybe you'd prefer a justin bieber or lady gaga pin machine - what can you tell me about those "weird kids" who also listens to AC/DC and Metallica?
AC-DC and Metallica are far more mainstream than Iron Maiden ever dreamed of being. As much as you might love Maiden most have never heard of them or think they are a satanic band of one sort or another.
Quoted from PersonX99:ok, who remembers seeing Kiss meets the Phantom of the Park on TV??? LOL
I watched that when I was like 8 years old.
Quoted from paulywalnuts23:Iron Maiden would be a bigger dud than Kiss, regardless of all the cool artwork..
I'd love to take this bet.
Quoted from paulywalnuts23:AC-DC and Metallica are far more mainstream than Iron Maiden ever dreamed of being. As much as you might love Maiden most have never heard of them or think they are a satanic band of one sort or another.
There is more to the world than the US
Jar155 - There's just too much wrong with your posts I can't quote just one, but you are so wrong.
Quoted from MinusWorlds:I'd love to take this bet.
There is more to the world than the US
Jar155 - There's just too much wrong with your posts I can't quote just one, but you are so wrong.
I wish we could as well, as I am sure Kiss would out sell Iron Maiden, regardless of how many pinsiders are Iron Maiden fans..
Quoted from MinusWorlds:I'd love to take this bet.
There is more to the world than the US
Jar155 - There's just too much wrong with your posts I can't quote just one, but you are so wrong.
Stern isn't going to build a machine that has minimal US appeal in comparison to other licenses. I get that we have fans of the band here on Pinside, and I get that you may like the band a lot, but don't let that alter your perceptions of where Iron Maiden stands in regards to the mainstream appeal. I mean, I really like Pearl Jam. A lot. Millions of people worldwide love Pearl Jam. But no, it wouldn't make for a successful pinball license.
There is more to the world than the US
Jar155 - There's just too much wrong with your posts I can't quote just one, but you are so wrong.
You know.... I had to count to 1.000 and bite all of my fingers... sometimes is better to just let go....
Quoted from paulywalnuts23:I wish we could as well, as I am sure Kiss would out sell Iron Maiden, regardless of how many insiders are Iron Maiden fans..
Not a chance.
It wouldn't even be close. A LARGE part of the pin market is overseas. Do you have any idea whatsoever how big Iron Maiden is there? Any? They are the Beatles of Heavy Metal there and Europe LOVES their heavy metal. They have sold over 85 million albums. Yes KISS has sold more than 100 million I know this, however they over market themselves, or Gene does, and haven't been relevant in years, if not decades. Iron Maiden is still very much relevant even if you can't see that.
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