Really Skymont that's what it's come to cheering on drfrightner that's sad

I think you need to invest in a new calculator if it's telling you 1700 is less than 1000.

Dude you do not own a DI or you would not have just made those stupid statements!

Clearly explains my 7 years of talking shit aboot them.

But I'm glad you're here, we all need a new Cornelius every once in awHile.

This post is begging for a reply... clearly you're lost in the woods on this one. Stern has some kind of program to design pinball games, and within that program is the parts available. I don't remember the last time I saw a part on a stern game that hasn't been repeated over and over again. Not to mention they reuse ENTIRE playfield designs like Batman or Beatles. Stern is not being accused of putting much original into their games these days that is just a fact. Look at Black Knight where is anything new there? Where is the effort? No one even the people who like the game are saying anything other than yes the playfield is barron.

JJP games have a screen twice the size of any Stern game. JJP includes cameras Stern does not. JJP are typically wide body clearly adds cost, Stern are not. In fact when is the last time they did a wide body anyone remember? JJP games for the most part are all powder coated, even LE Munsters wasn't powder coated most of the armor is BLACK.

JJP is doing things no one has ever seen with playfields like adding metallic flakes never saw Stern do that. But last but not least all JJP games are a one of a kind, designed from scratch with no thought to parts, or how to get them. In other words everytime they do that they must get custom parts where Stern just orders the same things as last time.

Clearly Stern makes more money off their games, because they don't put as much into them, plus they re-use designs, parts and more. There is good things about that, their games are using tried and true parts, where as JJP are using one of kind parts. Pros and cons here... but give me a break JJP games put three maybe five who knows possibly 10 times more into the games than Stern hence the higher price.

There is an old saying if you don't like the price don't buy it. I'm no longer buying Stern LE's unless they put some effort into the games to make them worth $9000.00. There isn't a single not a single Stern game that runs $9000 new that has as much into them as an LE JJP. Who can argue that point?

C'mon!

Here is the bottom line if JJP dummies down what they do like Stern, which is an option, they can't sell games for $6500.00. Its not possible.

A standard JJP has more pound for pound than ANY Stern LE by a mile. No one could argue that no one. Now you could argue that a Stern game is more fun, better this or that, but we're not talking about those aspects, just which game put more into the game itself.

Not a single stern game ever made, ever, has as much creative effort put into the game as anything JJP has ever created. Does Stern have game more fun than JJP yes they do, but they can't make a case they put more into a game than any JJP.

Why is it JJP starting putting full color screens in their machines from day one, while Stern kept producing typical dot matrix screens for years after?

There isn't a debate here... JJP puts more into their games, they're more original, more toys, wide body with big screens, simply put the real question is how can Stern charge 9k for black knight, while Wonka LE is the same price. Explain that?

Yeah it does explain it... the minute Stern saw WOZ they knew they better do something. Either get goofs like you to trash them, make a better machine and go over the top. Which one happened... oh yeah goofs like you starting dumb threads like this one to trash them.

Because I'm yet to see a single machine from them that stacks up to everything JJP puts into a game. Just admit it I gave you points why JJP is better you didn't dispute one. You didn't dispute you accuse people of making up shit, but I proved you make up shit.

You're a clown! That is a fact!

There is innovation in JJP that hurts beyond the layout, however let's hit a few key points.

1. Fun to play has zero to do with innovative and more about overall experience.

2. Let's reserve some judgement as Brian Eddy had yet to show you what is up his sleeve.

3. There is a place for everyone and having a variety at our disposal is certainly a good thing.

Jack makes a great finished product. I think both companies make a fun game. My kids prefer Deadpool, Iron Maiden and Ghostbusters over any JJP. They like dialed in 4th. They haven't played Wonka do let's see but it's not always about pushing the envelope. Sometimes fun to play, funny callouts and good screen animation can sway a player to come back.

When the bashing stops on both sides i will stop. That goes for both Stern Fanboys and JJP Fanboys.

That’s not a bad/defective paint/clear job by the manufacturer. That’s someone opened a door and chipped the paint. Lol.

I've read hundreds of "soft paint" "easily chipped paint" threads in car forums over the years. Seems the same to me. But I'll let you have this one, I'm not interested in engaging on it any more.

At this point. Only one person agrees with that long diatribe

I see this all the time on track forums. 911 vs Vette. 911 sucks. Too much money. Blah blah blah. I just want to enjoy the community. I don't care about who is better. I just want to have fun. I know Jack, I know Gary, I know Gerry, I know a lot of the guys who design the games. I've been around the coin op industry for a long time. Unboxed my first game in the early 90s. First game was actually Pinbot. We had one in the shop and I convinced my dad to put it in the break room. Haha

Can I ask you a question? Do you have a life outside of posting on this website 24 hours a day??? I'm being dead serious. I've been in Atlanta for a week, I did yard work yesterday, I have to go and see my staff tomorrow, going to Indy next week. I can only check this website like once a week most times, seems like you pin your eyeballs open as in the movie Clockwork Orange so you don't miss a thing. Does anyone have as many posts as you? Do you sleep inside a pinball machine? These are all serious questions. I'm actually thinking you don't have a life outside of this message board.

The real humorous thing is, there is no contest here. Stern is the giant in pinball. JJP is a very small niche player originally designed for collectors. It isn’t Stern vs. JJP, that is ridiculous by any business sense comparison. JJP is a niche boutique player and in the same category as Spooky and other small manufacturers. In all JJP existence they’ve made only 5 games. During that same period, Stern has made many times that and employs 350+ people at their factory. They don’t lay them off constantly like JJP does on their small lines, with lots of temp workers, hence many quality issues coming off the line from time to time. JJP fan boy defenders do give us all a good laugh though, so keep it up. It’s funny, you don’t hear Spooky or other niche fanboys in these threads. Lol

OMG I'm wondering how much of a brain you have left after all that glue you sniffed.

Let me point out a few things here... you say they pick outdated themes.

Lets address:

WOZ: The single most beloved movie of all time and sales proved it as they're somewhere between 5000 and 6000 machines sold. BTW never done before. BTW in case you don't know items from this movie have sold for the highest prices of any collectible items in history. Dorthy shoes over 2 million, the Lion suit nearly 2 million, what are you talking about????????

Hobbit: Probably one of the most read books in history, and as for the movies they grossed BILLIONS with a B just so you know. Hobbit was never done as Stern did Lord of the Rings. I might point out that people read the book Hobbit not Lord of the Rings in school. People know Hobbit, LOTR is much lesser known title until the movies.

Dialed In: Is a unique themed game, and if we compare Dialed In to say Sterns last original theme Black Knight, c'mon there is no comparison none what so ever.

Willy Wonka: This might be the single most beloved Children's movies of all time, who doesn't love Willy Wonka. In case you're not aware they re-made this movie with Depp, you can still go to the candy store and pick up Wonka candy. Are you serious right now?

Guns N Roses: Ranked as one of the greatest rock bands in history. Again are you serious right now?

Pirates: Yes this theme was already covered by Stern, however theirs was produced over 10 years ago. The series of movies grossed multiple billions of dollars, and I repeat multiple billions of dollars. I might also point out that JJP version of the movie series is ranked as one of the ten best games ever made while Sterns is not!

Toy Story: Coming soon is the biggest digital movie franchise in the history of film. So again can you explain here?

Dude you're straight up dumb for those comments.

Now lets look at Stern...

1) Deadpool: Not even based on the movie. Love the game but there isn't a person on earth who wouldn't have rathered based on the movie. I would call this into serious question.

2) Munsters: A TV series from the 1960's that apparently has lost a lot of its fanbase.

3) Beatles: They didn't even use their best songs.

4) Black Knight: Did anyone really need this theme? I think not!

So what in the hell are you talking about questionable themes? Give me a break!

You are such a small minded delight. So kind in what you say to others. You’re a real treasure here on Pinside.

Lies. Now you are the one who should check your facts.

6 years of college down the drain!

I don't see the need to be demeaning and argumentive. There can be great opinionated dialogue without attacking each other. Some really good points are being made but then they are severely discounted do to a need to "fire back"... I read between the lines and there is a lot of truth to what everyone here is saying.

Just put frightener on ignore and move on with your life already. Seriously, it's too short to spend time arguing with people like that.

I WAS WONDERING THER SAME THING BUT ABOUT STERN

I agree with everything except two:

- GnR. Yes, they are one of the all time greats, but they also haven't done shit in 25 years that anyone cares about. But, at the same time, Stern did Iron Maiden so... even?

- Deadpool. Deadpool is on fire right now as one of the biggest Marvel franchises, and the movies are incredibly accurate to the style of the comics. Basing it on the movie would be less true to the movie than basing it on the comics. That statement should hurt your head because that's Deadpool... He is all about breaking the 4th wall and all forms of time and inter-dimentional space travel. He is beholden to no timeframe, universe, comic or movie. You should think of the movies as Deadpool stepping out of his comics to make movies, not as movies based on a comic. In that sense, basing it on imagery from the movies would tie Deadpool down in a way that Deadpool would never allow himself to be tied down. You must respect the Wade Wilson. BOOM!

Man this thread is a dumpster fire.

It's a dumpster fire outside an abortion clinic.

Frightener seems to be losing it.

How can someone who posts more keystrokes per capita than anybody here accuse others of having no lives?

That Shit just doesn’t fly. You can’t post on a pinball forum - AT ALL - and play the “get a life” card. I don’t care how much yard work you claimed to do yesterday.

Major truth here...shit is getting way, way deep. We all hope that JJP is around for a long time ( thread topic), but the blatant JJPPOTC pumping, while ignoring actual facts is insane. Greg nails it, anyone w a brain sees it, yet the most intense/ blind fanboy action I've read in memory. Wow, just wow..

Wow this is the pot calling the kettle black,you spend all your time here like JY64 doing your best to tear down anything JJP.Now that's a fact!

Sounds like I'm missing some fireworks...glad I used ignore MONTHS ago.

It's at the level were it's actually worth it to read.

You’re right... there is no comparison. You’re making the argument that Chevy is better than Rolls Royce.

Nah..just read through some of it last night..
Amazing how far some will go to defend the indefensible...

Could it actually be possible to like BOTH companies ( the horror), but call out a lemon when it's due without pandemonium?

Probably not...

If a Rolls Royce had orange peel on a decent # of vehicles, bet your ass they would have already been dealt with beyond rose colored glasses...

Ahh no facts to check he bought the game. He told me he bought the game. What other facts should I check?

OMG. You're actually making a very clear and very non-defensible argument. You even followed it up with another statement you couldn't defend if you're life depended on it. This is exactly what i don't get about this website, you're free to slander a company, and that is okay. Strange! JJP is in no way trying to be a niche company. Show me some evidence of that!!! Please and if you can I will leave pinside forever!

Secondly there is no giant not Stern not anyone. This is just another case of you not understanding the coin op world we live in right now... Stern is a blip as is JJP as is all the pinball companies. The companies that make all the money in the coin op world are the companies who sell everything having to do with redemption. When you go to Dave and Busters how many pinball games do you see? When you go to the mass majority of bowling centers how many do you see, or family fun centers, you see almost none ever. So to be clear no pinball manufacturer is what you called GIANT! Pinball falls within the coin op industry, and anyone making pinballs are on the lower side of the industry for several reasons. Most coin op now is either some sort of win something game, or shooter games not pinball. There is however a thriving pincade, and retro arcades thriving but they're actually teh nich not the bowling, family fun center industry.

So to be clear all pinball is nich which includes Stern! So lets start there. Secondly anyone who makes a pinball game isn't trying to only sell 100 to 500 games and be niche. JJP sold over 5,000 Wizard of Oz pinball games how is that niche? Please explain? WOZ is one of the highest selling pinball games in history again how is that niche? Explain!

NOTE: In another reply on this topic I clearly explain when comparing total number of games sold we're talking about the modern era last ten years. But if we're to compare WOZ to every pinball game ever made it would still end up as one of the highest selling games in history. In the modern era since the demise of Williams/Bally and emergence of Stern, JJP, American Pinball to everyone else between.

Okay here is where I really laugh! JJP has licensed Wizard of Oz, Toy Story from Disney, POTC from Disney, Guns N Roses, and Hobbit from Warner. How is that niche like Spooky? Explain!

Spooky has licensed nothing, but did some limited run games based on Rob Zombie and Alice Cooper. Spooky actually tells you they're doing 500 games max where as with Willy Wonka they are saying 5000 games. How and why should they be compared?

Lastly, JJP makes their games better than Stern on every single level and I mean every level how is that niche?

The highest resell value of any pinball made in the last 10 years is all JJP not Stern. How is that niche? Leaving out the failed games where they only made 15 or whatever games, we're talking full production of games. How is that niche? Explain!

JJP has sold over 1500 Dialed In, over 5000 WOZ, 1000 Pirates, and planning to make thousands more Guns N Roses and Wonka how is that niche?

Explain!

All the companies you would call NICHE like American Pinball or Spooky has yet to license a single movie yet you throw them into the same category. Explain!

The difference here I use facts you just throw out non-sense. You and the other fanboys don't like facts. I get it!

None of the arguments I've made are to say however that Stern doesn't make more pinball games, doesn't have more experience, more track record, or won't be the future #1 pinball suppliers. Not saying that. But I'm also not saying they will be either... things change fast when your goal is to be #1. Seems Deep Root is making that their goal, who's to say they won't get there? You don't have a crystal ball.

I'm argue facts! Sorry if facts aren't part of your OPINIONS!

You claim to argue facts but then make statements like “Spooky has licensed nothing,” Spooky did license Rob zombie and Alice Cooper games , not sure why you’d ignore those or claim that since their production was limited that they are not licensed . Also you might be surprised how many games went over the production number of 5,000 , you claim that WOZ with a production run of 5,000 is one of the highest selling pinball games in history . Did you know that Bally Rolling Stones sold 5,700 units ? And a ton of other games have sold over 5,000 units ? If you want to argue using Facts , you should probably use facts .

B218AA78-B567-454B-ADCE-7ED7C462A0F7 (resized).jpeg

While I do agree with some of his arguments, I have have to agree with you that his statements of things as "facts" in many cases is just not true.
While some of this may be "in fact" how he feels or what he believes to be true, they are simply not factual statements.

1) Sorry, but no. I'll give you that it's up there on a lot of list as far as films go, but it is not the most beloved movie off all time. That statement is simply not true.
BTW, I own a WOZ and love the movie and love the pin.

2) Plenty of pinball machines have production figures of 5000-6000 or even much higher. Twilight Zone(15,235 units), Lord of the Rings(5,100 units + 500 LEs), Indiana Jones(12,716 units), The Addams Family(20,270 units + 1000 golds), Star Trek The Next Generation(11,728 units), The Simpsons Pinball Party(5900 units) and thats just in the top 20 ranked pins on this site. Not even counting stuff like Terminator 2 (15,202 units).

Highest price of any collectible in history? Not even remotely close. I've been in the collectibles industry my entire life (buying and selling coins etc.) and the 2 million mark is not even remotely close to the highest price ever paid for a collectible. I can name dozens of collectibles that have far exceeded 2M mark in my field alone. Namely the 1933 $20 which sold in excess of 10 Million. Thats just one filed and doesn't even count things like art, antiquities, cars, books, and other high end collectibles. There are even stamps and base ball cards thats have exceeded the 2M mark by quite a bit.
Looks it up, I assure you those are actual facts.

I'll give that it's "one of the most", although by that argument the next pinball machine should be Muslims the Pin.
The Koran is the most read book of all time and has sold the most copies.
Second only to the Holly Bible, I can hardly wait for Jesus Christ the pin.

Oh and by the way, more copies of Lord of the Ring (150 Million copies) have been sold than the Hobbit (just over 100 million copies).
Book sales would indicate that LOTR is not the lesser know of the two.

I'm sorry, but the things you present as "facts" are as fucked up as a soup sandwich.

I'm not a fan boy for any company one way or the other. I own JJP, Spooky, Stern, Bally, Williams, Data East etc. and love them all.
I give my money to the company that put out the pin that I want to own (whomever that may be).
I don't understand the BS about pitting the companies against each other and which ones the best.
Just be happy that multiple companies are now making pinball machines.
It was only a decade ago when Stern was the only manufacturer making new machines (at least in any numbers).
I hope the market can continue to flourish and support all of these companies.
It will be a sad day if we have only one pinball manufacturer to choose from.

Okay see here is my problem with people on pinside who post what you said... its because you didn't read what I said. Had you given what I said the full read you wouldn't have made this post. BTW I'm not mad or anything, just pointing out if you read what I said you wouldn't have said this.

1) I didn't claim WOZ was the highest selling game in history, what I said was its one of the highest selling games within the last 10 years. In other words since pinball has made some sort of a comeback, I'm not referring to any heyday era of pinball just today the modern day pinball era. So what are the top selling games I don't see Stern releasing numbers so maybe we'll never know for sure but here is my guess of the top five: WOZ, ACDC, Ghostbusters, Metallica, Star Wars. That would be my guess. My point on this issue is really simple... how can this guy claim JJP is a niche supplier when they sold over 5000 units of WOZ, 1500 Dialed In, 1000 POTC, and so on? How are they a niche pinball company when they license Guns N Roses, Toy Story, Willy Wonka?
How are they a niche company when they have a massive factory, with clearly the second most employees only to stern? The guys point is not based on facts is my point. Just a JJP hater which is sad.

2) Again if you go back and read what I said I pointed out that Spooky had license with both Zombie and Alice Cooper. BTW Alice Cooper and Zombie are friends and even tour together. Its my understanding they wanted a pinball game and I doubt very seriously much if any money was dolled out in advance. Rob Zombie is not Queen, Beatles, ACDC, Metallica these two haven't sold millions upon millions of albums. However if you read what I said I said they haven't licensed a film!!! Personally if someone wanted Quiet Riots license I'm sure you could get it fairly easy, along with Zombie and Alice Cooper and their appeal would be niche. Hence Spooky you can argue is a niche pinball supplier. On the other hand Queen, or say Led Zeppelin are far from niche, and would have hundreds of people buying who do not like pinball. To get those licenses you're going to need some credentials same as JJP getting Guns N Roses.

I think Spooky is doing a great job if they're making money. But they're announcing only 500 of this or that... JJP is announcing 5000 Wonka's are available how does this guy compare Spooky to JJP? Hopefully you see my point!

I am dumber for having caught up with this thread

Are Wonka playfields chipping yet?

WOZ is the most beloved movie of all time and let me point out why. 1) Its prints are stored in the US vault. 2) The movie is 80 or so years old and it still sells, still airs on TV, Disney does a prequal, and based on the popularity of the film a spinoff Wicked is the #1 broadway play in history. Hollywood Reporter ranked top 100 movies of all time WOZ was ranked #2 behind Godfather. IMDB has WOZ as the #8 highest rated film of all time. Dude the movie is going to be 100 years old soon and people keep watching the movie, how can you sit here and honestly say its not. When I say beloved its a family film, Godfather is not a family film.

There are several posts I talked about this and I think I was clear I'm talking modern era within the last 10 years. See there is a major difference here... back in 1990 every single bowling alley had pinball machines, today they do not, every roller skating rink had pinball games today they do not, movie theaters had pinball games today they do not. We can't compare today to the heydey of Williams and Bally. Furthermore WOZ at 8 to 10k at 5k units would be drastically higher grossing game then even Adams Family if you want to argue it that way. With that being said I'm talking about Modern Era since Stern to JJP and everyone else. I would be guessing but ACDC, Metallica, Ghostbusters, WOZ those are probably your top 4 or 5. Even if you throw in the entire history of pinball Woz is still one of the highest selling, but I never said the #1 seller just one of.

The Lion Suit just sold for 3 million dollars that puts that in the top 10 all time. We're talking about a fur suit here that just sold from a movie that is 80 years old. How much would Dorthy shoes sell for today probably 4 million dollars its the single most iconic thing you can buy from a movie. Clearly if someone found which apparently they did Steve McQueen's Bullet car, how much is that worth? I've seen cars sell for 150 million dollars, a car vs a pair of shoes cmon. I would agree Steve McQueen's Bullet car which I think Ford now owns is probably worth 5 to 10 million to a billionaire car collector but you can't compare a pair of shoes to a car. Cars are in another category all together. The most valuable non-car item used in a movie if sold today would be Dorthy's shoes hands down. The lion suit just proved it selling for 3 million dollars a couple years ago. So what would Dorthy shoes sell for now... 5 million?

Your funny! But the most read book I guess is the Bible so yeah lets do a Bible pinball. LOL

WOZ may be "the most beloved movie of all time", but I'll take Dialed In over WOZ any day.

I wanted to be an early adopter of WOZ, but all the early missteps were a big turnoff (and I got my deposit back). After playing a friends, I realized the game wasn't for me anyway.

Pat/Ted did a wonderful job with Dialed In.

I just read this one article here: https://www.kansascity.com/entertainment/wizard-of-oz/article1247255.html

Calling the shoes: Dorothy’s ruby slippers remain the holy grail of Hollywood memorabilia

“The ruby slippers occupy an extraordinary place in the hearts of movie audiences the world over,” said Bob Iger, chief executive officer at Walt Disney, calling the shoes a “transformative acquisition” for the academy’s museum

visitors to the National Museum of American History in Washington, D.C., inevitably make a beeline for the ruby slippers displayed there, one of the museum’s most-asked-about artifacts.

As for movie items, nothing is bigger than Dorthy shoes, and now the Lion suit sits in the top 10 items ever sold. WOZ is and always will be the single most beloved movie in history. The whole point is some guy who clearly doesn't know what he's talking about called JJP a niche supplier. My point is how do you sell 5,000 copies plus of a game and you consider them a niche? How do you license Wonka, Guns N Roses, Toy Story, Hobbit, and call this company a niche?

That was a really dumb statement I would say!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bible-adventures-pinball-discussion-thread

Big Dialed In fan here also,I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on a Wonka because I love DI so much.
What’s your thinking on this ?

The license does nothing for me, so I'm not seriously considering it. Need to go play one @ AYCE GOGI (up the road from me). It's possible that after playing it I change my mind (but doubt that will happen). I'm VERY interested in the next 2 under development (GNR/TS).

Thanks for sharing!!! I'll give it a read!

I've called Wonka Dialed In 2 ... if you like Dialed In you'll love Wonka. Wonka has a movie tie in to another beloved classic so in some ways you'll probably like it better. When you have a party at the house, people will instantly bee line right for the game, because they love the movie!