(Topic ID: 245505)

Will JJP make more POTC?

By Nokoro

4 months ago

Topic Stats

  • 461 posts
  • 107 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by FryDaddy
  • Topic is favorited by 13 Pinsiders


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Topic poll

“Will JJP make more?”

  • Yes, more LEs 42 votes
  • Yes, more SEs 14 votes
  • Yes, more SEs and LEs 60 votes
  • Yes, some other version 88 votes
  • No, they are done. 152 votes

(356 votes)

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#42 4 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I think they lost their ass on this title and it was time to cut the anchor.
That delay really hurt the game.

The delay didn't hurt them the most, it was the cuts to the disc and the chest mech at the last minute that caused a LOT of orders to be cancelled.

Who knew the chest lid would be figured out by modders after the fact and the 3 disc mech wouldn't matter with so much else awesome stuff in the game? JJP had a pretty massive hit only they didn't know it and neither did the community until people started getting hands on it, and by then it was too late, production had been cut and the end was set.

#45 4 months ago
Quoted from Pinballer67:

3. demand for this title was quite poor all things considered until JJP announced they were pulling it from the line

Announcing the game was being pulled isn't the reason for demand. It's just that enough people FINALLY got to put their hands on one and play it and discovered it's awesome. Unfortunately, that happened AFTER Wonka was already pushed into the jjPotC line so no way to quickly reverse course.

It's a very Medieval Madness/Cirqus Voltaire line situation.

#70 4 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

By the way, how is it that B/W managed to produce tens of thousands of Super Pins profitably? Weren't a number of those similarly complex?

Economy of scale and proprietary, task-specific boardsets. Using a fair amount of off-the-shelf parts like JJP does is not cheap.

But I think JJP is making money, even on jjPotC, just not a lot (yet), which is another reason to squeeze profit out of another 500-1000 LE units that will satisfy pent up demand.

#72 4 months ago
Quoted from rai:

I understand the fewer pins made means there is less unit to spread all the R&D, advertising, Licensing, support service, factory/staff overhead.
this leads to a vicious circle: less pins means the cost of each one has to bear more of the burden of the above costs and the price goes up leads to less sales (etc.)
Woz was interesting (the biggest seller of JJP by far) because it debuted at $6500 maybe that's too low a price but then the game can sell thousands and thousands and soon enough can spread all those costs to thousands of units.
Suppose a smartphone costs tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to develop but if they sell hundreds of millions of units that R&D cost is next to nothing for each unit.
Myself, I'm not poor by any means but there is. certain point where even look at the price tag and say that's a lot of money. I mean who is buying these pins over $8000?
I have bought a few in that neighborhood but it's a still much less than the CE or SLE or Diamonds are asking for.

Well Diamonds and Platinums are just stupid because there's no difference in those pins except very basic trim. Idiot money. They don't even really count for the purposes of this discussion. Just a failed Stern money grab test.

#96 4 months ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

I would say these are not for sale to make a profit but more because POTC has had so many quality issues already some that own it are afraid it will literally disintegrate like an old pair of underwear down the road. At least now people can still get their money back.

Overblown and untrue. It's on route here and it's fine. Takes a lot more tweaking to get everything running smoothly, but it's literally the most complicated pin mechanically since WoZ, so to be expected - WoZ was very similar in that respect. An order of magnitude more complicated than any Stern.

It's also the top earner on the route at $1.50/play, 4 balls. People LOVE this machine. Literally double Deadpool Premium, the next newest pin at $1/play, 3 balls. If that's the reward for having to dial a pin in, I'll do that all day long.

#102 4 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

As is JJP CE games

You get more of actual value with a jjPotC CE than any Stern "rare" Beatles pin or SLE. Crazy money for either, but less crazy with JJP. By far.

#105 4 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

If you want rare the POTC standard that was $4000 less was the best buy

The LE is the best buy for PotC, hence the reason it sold out first.

#121 4 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

You mean the LE of 5000 lol
they stopped production they did not sell out

No one was buying the LE for rarity because it's easily Game of the Year (decade?), and that's enough. But they ended up getting a rare and very desirable pin almost by mistake.

#124 4 months ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

There is a sliver of pure gold in this response. Thank you Steve for your frankness. This is news to get excited about!!!

Well, we know we have Wonka, then Guns n Roses in the Fall, then Toy Story in 2020, then...is Muppets still out there? It's the only one from that leaked list that hasn't happened, but I kind of hope it's not happening. Plus JJP is hooked up with NamcoBandai, so there's a slim chance one of their properties (or a mishmash Namco World design with many of them) could be a pin (which would be fantastic)

I also really, Really, REALLY hope JJP got the Harry Potter license and Stern was just trolling them. Sterns version would just not come close to doing justice to the license. I'm already bummed enough Stern got Princess Bride. That is a ready-made JJP title if there ever was one.

#136 4 months ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

beatles has nothing to do with production costs but licensing costs.

Nope. False. The base cost of making the machines doesn't rise exponentially by changing the armor. And Golds can be have now for less than $7k, so the "hard" costs with license are likely just a little more than a pro.

#168 3 months ago
Quoted from chad:

Is GNR really happening , or just pure speculation?

It's happening. Eric's designing it, and great things are expected.

#171 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I could not be more excited about another Eric Munier pin! The GNR theme does absolutely nothing for me though. Hopefully it will be another big winner like pirates where the theme is almost irrelevant.

Once you mainline the complementary heroin that ships with each one, you won't care about the theme, just the colors.

#174 3 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

Am I the only one that thinks POTC is more design, audio, gameplay packed than "toy" packed?

Chest with redirect forks
Spinning playfield wheel
Rocking ship
Across playfield canon shot
Spinning pops
Maelstrom w/diverter
Rollover buttons
5 Flippers
Lockdown action button

That's at least as much as WoZ:
Rising witch
Tree pop bumpers
State Fair pop bumper
Flying monkey
Spinning house/upper pf
Throne saucer with lit wizard (not really a toy more like a feature)
Rollover buttons
6 flippers

#183 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yeah but wouldn't the BOM be sorted out well before production begins? I'm really not buying this.

And the BoM approved was bigger with the tri-discs and closing chest lid until they cut them for reliability.

#307 3 months ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Common sense apparently is not so common. I agree! The game is feature rich and makes me wonder if expense to profit didnt exactly pan out. It also appears the game had a fair amount of mechanical issues out of the box and a crap clear coat job. If what I just said is true, they'd be a fool to run another batch honestly. I think they're in the mode of on to bigger and better things (except GNR) gack! Lol

Clearcoat job was fine (nice, actually). They just didn't let it cure long enough. It was still too soft on the layers underneath when they started bolting stuff to it.

#309 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Hate fueling speculation on something I know little about but I Wonder if the late in the game decision to opt for New playfields (no triple disk) propagated some of this issue and limited cure time? Seems like they have the playfields 6 months prior to line assembly (which they did) but this one I suspect threw them a curve.

That's why I'm fine with getting a half-price playfield I can let cure for a year or more myself. JJP isn't losing any money on these PF replacements since even at half retail price, there's a bit of a profit buffer built in, and it lets me control the cure time. I'm sure that will be fine when it comes time to swap it in.

#311 3 months ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

I have a build date of Jan 19. Just got it 3 weeks ago and played it 5 times as my ship is getting fixed Thursday
With that being said did that help the curing or not? It was in climate controlled building for few months fully assembled so with bolts and such put on it in January it might not make a big difference...I don’t know

If it was built in Jan, stuff was bolted on when the playfield was still too soft, so you're likely in the same boat as everyone else. I wouldn't worry about it. Just throw some cliffies on it and play it, and buy the half price safety playfield you can let cure for a year or years until you use it and it will be plenty hard by then.

#321 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

Unless the replacement playfield is fully populated that is some of the worst advice ever for doing a full playfield swap on a JJP POTC is for only the most highly skilled pinhead

And your solution is? There's one actual solution. Have a spare playfield so it CAN be fixed in the future OR live with the chipped up, bubbled up playfields that get worse over time. At least if you have a brand new, properly cured playfield you can get the machine back to like-new condition. Without that, you're screwed as an owner.

#325 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

Buy one that has stood the test of time if none can so be it move on there is always another game out there

This is the dumbest statement ever. There is no other game like jjPotC, so this doesn't hold water.

#331 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

No, the dumbest statement ever is the idea of buying a $10,000 game and buying a " half price safety playfield you can let cure for a year or years" because the $10,000 cant hack HUO WTF

It's not a JJP-only problem. Stern Beatles is as bad or worse, but I haven't heard of any playfields being replaced at all. Iron Maiden also has the bunching around posts one some playfields to varying degrees.

You have no real-world solutions. Mine works, yours doesn't.

#335 3 months ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Best solution to NIB playfield cracking and damage.
Problem solved.

Problem not solved. The posts and other components have already pushed into the clear and bunched up around the edges. Totally different than starting with a properly cured playfield.

Beatles has this problem, Iron Maiden has this problem (to a lesser extent), jjPotC has this problem, TNA has this issue, and a couple Wonkas I've seen also have it. It's not an isolated issue but it is relatively new, within the last year or so.

#338 3 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I have to say the playfields should of been cured by the time they arrived & populated. I know I had some soft ones after a day or 2, but it was likely 1-2 weeks or longer from Mirco shipping them.

I always cure playfields for a year. 6 months is probably enough, but I do a year. The top layers might be hard, but the ones underneath are the ones that take the most time to fully harden.

#340 3 months ago
Quoted from Vdrums:

would baking a play field in high temp harden the clear coat?

Probably, but I have no idea how much or how long. I've always done the "open air+time" method.

#347 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

I don't care whose problem it is I will take exception with anyone who thinks buying a $10,000 game that you need a back-up playfield is a good idea. Advising a fellow pinhead to do a full playfield swap when you do not even know if he can build the rotisserie needed to do the work is even a worse idea

I've never had a rotisserie and done dozens of swaps. It's not required. And having the playfield means it's AVAILABLE for the current or future owner. Non-availibility is a bad thing.

#348 3 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I don’t get why this hasn’t been corrected at all?
So we have widespread issues with potc, issues with ybr and now it’s reportedly rearing it’s ugly head on wonka.
If I were them I would want to get this straightened out .

And Beatles, and Iron Maiden, and TNA. It's not a JJP/Mirco issue alone.

#352 3 months ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

So all these companies all of a sudden forgot how long they should cure their PFs? This wasn’t happening 5 years ago. I still say this is a Mirco materials/process issue. Doesn’t really make sense all these pin manufacturers just forgot how to cure PF’s. Or now they just won’t wait to cure correctly. Doesn’t add up to me at all. Are we to believe all these pin manufacturers where waiting 6 months to a year to cure their PFs before and now they are not?

Pretty sure it's a result of changes to what chemicals can be used in the process. The list of acceptable items has been getting shorter for the last 10 years. Many of them are outlawed in much of the world now. There's a new learning curve and we're the guinea pigs.

#356 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

"Clearcoat job was fine (nice, actually). They just didn't let it cure long enough. It was still too soft on the layers underneath when they started bolting stuff to it."
Both these statements are by you how are they both accurate

Because there are multiple ways to cure clear? You can accelerate the process chemically or let just time do it. You know this right? They can both be true for different processes by different manufacturers. It can also be true for the SAME manufacturer if they didn't let the low VOC chemicals cure long enough. These are not mutually exclusive statements.

#357 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

lol pic's or it did not happen

I didn't have a lot of pics handy, but here's the guts of a Theatre of Magic I did laying in the bottom of the cabinet, where they stayed while the playfield was out being repaired and cleared. Put it back together over a year later.

I've also included some of the points that were repaired.
IMG_0098 (resized).JPGbackoftrunk (resized).jpgballexit (resized).jpgballlaunch (resized).jpgbehindtarget (resized).jpgfrontoftrunk (resized).jpg

Here's a pic as it was coming back together - without a rotisserie:
overall (resized).jpg

#359 3 months ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

Well I hope whatever is actually going on comes out into the open. I know of JJP ,Stern and American pinball having this clear issue but have not heard of a clear issue with any CGC or Spooky titles. Not including the early MM done by Stern for CGC. Seems like CGC might have the best overall quality of any pin manufacturer right now from what I have been hearing. However remakes only appeal to certain folks. Wonka seems to show no one is currently fixing the clearcoat problem. Too bad.

Spooky-made TNA has the bunching. Don't know on what scale.

CGC hasn't had bunching to my knowledge, just chipping and cracking on the original MMr run, but it seemed to be pretty limited.

There are plenty of people in pinball that do clear really well and don't have these issues. I wish JJP would hire one of them as a outside consultant to figure this out and get the issue solved. It's not an unknowable/unsolvable.

#362 3 months ago

Meh. I've done it so many times without, no need to start now. I can do most 90's pins eyes closed. Star Trek TNG is my only nightmare. Never want to do that one again.

#363 3 months ago
Quoted from Rick432:

Wish I had your talent.

I think it's more a matter of experience, which you acquire by doing. I know EVERYBODY isn't cut out for it, but I think that most pinheads that are determined can learn the skills over time. I actually enjoy the fixing up about equally to the playing. Love the transformation from trash to treasure.

#369 3 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

please stop trying to lump TNA in.
for a few reasons:
1. It was a small number of total TNA pf that had chipping
2. TNA issue appears to be completely different than what was seen on Beatles, Maiden; and those are different than what is seen on POTC
3. TNA was already rectified by game 420 ish so Spooky is the one that seems to have found the root cause, addressed the issue, and from what it seems... even took care of customers.3
4. it is not doing any of us good to generalize things when there are likely different issues going on at the root cause.
TNA root cause in my opinion was a single human muscle freak that was screwing up in production. Not a systemic issue with pf
STERN issue appears sporadic and limited to primarily 1 of their 3? contracted pf makers which is why it comes and goes, some people are impacted and some are not. It appears to be a ink not bonding combined with too quick of production speed that allows bubbling of art and clear at posts.
JJP issue is 100% a mirco issue. It appears he is doing a very poor job of prepping blanks, the direct print machine is over flooding the ink and that layer is not binding properly, so then the clear is chipping. Chipping clear infers plenty of cure before assembly.
I believe the only commonality is that all three issues were exacerbated by star posts causing greater pressure points now-a-days than how they were jeweled and made in the past. The posts are putting more pressure on the pf from ball impact.

Nope. Maiden and Beatles is exactly like what's being seen on jjPotC and Wonka. I know - we've had the issue to a small extent with the Maiden here, and the Beatles I've seen look just like jjPotC and Wonka's bunching.

#379 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

Whysnow the Monk is doing what many do deflect blame toward others so to make JJP look good

OMG. I'm just pointing out that the problem with playfields is widespread. There's nothing false in what's been reported, and I'm not leaving JJP information out. Hell, I was the first one to post a pic showing that Wonka has the same problem. There's no intent to show that other manufacturers have this problem too just in order to "make JJP look good." IF that was my intent, WHY would I put the Wonka pic out there? You're ridiculous.

But I do kind of like that you're calling me The Monk now.

3 weeks later
#402 89 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Great new invention that might fix the star post problem. Man, wish the pin companies would have had these available... [quoted image]

If these are plastic, something very much like this is already on the bottom of the posts on the slings for most (all?) jjPotC from the factory.

1 month later
#448 48 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Sooo happy to have this at home. I do hope there’s another code update though!

There's DEFINITELY another code update coming for jjPotC. Probably a number of them. Let's not pressure Keith into another heart attack, though. He's got a lot on his plate!

#453 46 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Crikey, I seem to have missed that. I wonder if he's got an insulin pump. Diabetics in particular have had a horrible last 2 years in between prices for insulin skyrocketing (for no reason other than greed, I might add) and overall insurance and Medicare coverage plummeting. We could all do better with exercise and diet, but that is just BS.

It's easy to miss threads on pinside if you check the topics you've posted to mostly and only check the general list every so often. Happens to me all the time.

It would be cool if robin would program the topic list to have an "you might like" section at the top with three or four threads that pinsiders with similar thread posting habits to you have also posted in (like an old-school Netflix or TiVo suggestions, etc). Each time you went to the topic list it could refresh the suggestion threads.

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