(Topic ID: 245505)

Will JJP make more POTC?

By Nokoro

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 1,366 posts
  • 200 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Dr-pin
  • Topic is favorited by 37 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Will JJP make more?”

  • Yes, more LEs 66 votes
    11%
  • Yes, more SEs 23 votes
    4%
  • Yes, more SEs and LEs 82 votes
    14%
  • Yes, some other version 148 votes
    25%
  • No, they are done. 273 votes
    46%

(592 votes)

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#314 4 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Wayne, what's up?
You dont want to sell more Pirate's?
You could unload a c-container easy.

Ive looked and thought about the numbers.
500 would sell easy, sold out in days.
Just the announcement alone would cause a stir.1000 would be my number if I was Jack.
How many WOZ YBR have sold? That would give you a good number.
I say go for 1000 Black Pearl Edition , no missing mechs. $10,500.

They are licensing with Disney - who could not possibly care less about some dumb pinball machines. Disney licensing requires that if you change ANYTHING related to the artwork, copyrighted names, etc, you have to go through the licensing review process again. So thats 6 months to a year delay. And we don't know the total sunk cost plus BOM for each game. They could absolutely only be making $500 on these things. And what if they make (I'm making this up obviously) $600 on Wonka, and expect to sell as many, or more. They do Wonka.

that said, I do think the demand seems to be higher now than the initial sales predicted. Only being able to do 1 game at a time does seem to hurt them a bit, as they can't let sales grow organically.

#367 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I think it's more a matter of experience, which you acquire by doing. I know EVERYBODY isn't cut out for it, but I think that most pinheads that are determined can learn the skills over time. I actually enjoy the fixing up about equally to the playing. Love the transformation from trash to treasure.

100% same here . I don’t use a rotisserie either; I hang the playfield from the ceiling and transfer from one to the other standing up. Easy to work that way and way easier on the back. Pop bumper nails do have to be done carefully. I just have to remember to predrill holes thoroughly so I’m not forced to put much pressure on the playfield when I screw things in.

#385 4 years ago

I still haven’t picked up one of these games but I plan to after we get back from our trip. I will say that Ron kruzman’s playfield install kit will be a lifesaver in addressing the clear issues.

He sells a kit that has routing bits for drilling out a newly cleared playfield - but what they are also good for is cleaning up broken bits of clear when issues like this arise - and he also sells a special glue which is thin enough to seep into cracks and spaces to seal up any gaps.

The glue is Also super sticky and adheres to the clear, and helps to reattach bits which have broken off. It’s not as good as doing it right the first time, but it’s FAR less work than doing a PF swap, and makes that almost not a necessity to get the game back to fighting condition.

#390 4 years ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

I think your enthusiasm for Ron's kit is going to end up in disappointment. His kit, yes is meant to do exactly as you stated however it was designed to work with properly cured clear and you're not dealing with a properly cured clear coat. I did buy his kit and it's super nice, but I HIGHLY suggest you email him and ask him if itll work on that issue. I'll bet you he says no and has some other choice words of advise about the manufacturer.

Having done several repair already with it.. I think I’m good. But you’re right, it will not fix major issues with clear that’s not done curing. For chips and areas where the clear needs to be re-adhered ... works great

2 weeks later
#400 4 years ago

Just joined the club!! Couldn’t be happier with this ridiculous machine. It may never leave.. and not JUST because it’s over 400lbs...

#403 4 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

You finally got one???
Used or new?
Sucker is disturbingly heavy.

Used but spotless, and heavy as hell!!

#406 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

I had to break mine down into three pieces to get it up the stairs because of our landing. Head, cabinet, and playfield. All the connections were in the head, and I was able to put it back together without issues ... but I took lots of pics.

That’s what I did, and typically what I do for all games now. I decided to bring the cab down the stairs with the playfield still in the game this time - it just felt less heavy than Hobbit.

The backbox is super heavy on POTC though, so that requires assistance to reattach. Only PITA is the cabinet woofer connector and the USB extensions, both of which connect to the Computer inside the PC box itself.
But not that hard to deal with

#417 4 years ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

I was lucky enough to get myself an le. I LOVE this game. BUT, I don’t know about everyone else but it took a lot of tweaking to get it playing solid. Mine does have playfield issues and i did order th replacement at a cost of 550+shipping, which is a total joke - what’s the point of a warranty? Anyway, not to get off topic,
Realistically, i think if the demand is there and jjp feels they can make $, they will remake it at some point, and unless something changes will still have pf issues....but it may be a different art package as JD is no longer part of the franchise.

Just checked out the "this week in pinball" with the interview with Jack from earlier in the month. Jack's comments were approximately: "well... we'd have to talk amongst ourselves to decide whether we make POTC again. There's a lot of stuff in that game.. I know there's a lot of demand, but we want to keep producing more games..."

wOw. First time I'd read /heard something that implies they really had a huge challenge with this game. Looking forward to owning it for years to come...

#430 4 years ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

There is no way they're not making the game again. I don't know why this is debated over and over again. Jack has clearly stated they still have the rights to make more... I think when the used games are now selling for upwards of 2k more than what people paid its going to be made again. Heck Monster Bash prices got way out of control what happened even that was remade. C'mon! LOL
I think the biggest issue with this game is the parts, they probably don't want to place another order without knowing they can move enough machines to make another massive parts order. The demand is there, so I think you'll see more games.
JJP has already put WOZ back into production how many times already. If there is demand more games will be made.
I think you're going to see another 500 LE's created and they will all be sold within the first 10 days.

Jack himself appeared on a recent podcast, and when asked directly “will more POTC be made?” He said (paraphrasing) “... eeeeeh. Well yeah we’ll see about that. That’s something we’ll have to discuss internally. We have the license, there’s a lot that would go into it. But right now, we are focused on a Wonka and the next game which will be out before the end of the year”

This is definitely not as positive as the other comments I’ve been reading as far as production goes. I think it’s definitely possible that the BOM and engineering cost that went into this game makes it very unlikely to return in its current state. Perhaps they could do another run and charge $11500 for it, but, wow. The price was justified on this game, but only once everyone got their hands on it. At first it was “OMG 10K?!”

1 month later
#447 4 years ago

Sooo happy to have this at home. I do hope there’s another code update though!

#449 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

There's DEFINITELY another code update coming for jjPotC. Probably a number of them. Let's not pressure Keith into another heart attack, though. He's got a lot on his plate!

ANOTHER one? Yikes. Yep everybody stay calm. STAY!!!! CALM!!!

#452 4 years ago

Crikey, I seem to have missed that. I wonder if he's got an insulin pump. Diabetics in particular have had a horrible last 2 years in between prices for insulin skyrocketing (for no reason other than greed, I might add) and overall insurance and Medicare coverage plummeting. We could all do better with exercise and diet, but that is just BS.

1 month later
#458 4 years ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Really? I didn't see what the big hubub was about three spinning discs. I think adding that back would add nothing to the game, imo.

It wouldnt. Even the prototype - which looked cool - would have been impossible to read during gameplay, and it didn’t really spin the ball much (any?) differently than the single larger disc.

Putting the map disc on the LCD screen was one case in which this was the right call. It’s always a bummer when a mech gets “virtualized” but in this case the game is better for it.

4 months later
#477 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballTilt:

If you've been following this thread, almost every post saying why they won't make more said Johnny Depp and Disney had a falling out. I'm pointing out they may have made up. Also, Disney has no reason to renew the Tron license other than money, at least with pirates they could spin it as promoting the franchise that has a new movie coming soon.

Super doubtful if you look at the timeline. Disney has no movie in production yet - no script, etc. It could be 5 more years. JJP has the license for what ... 2 more weeks? They’d be throwing a Hail Mary in the middle of planning and executing the big move to Chicago, plus game 5. Why take the risk on a low-margin game? I guess I’m just saying I wouldn’t do it

Disclaimer: this is NO WAY implies that I wouldn’t REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate a code update!!!

1 month later
#530 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I think the shutdown had more to do with the cancelled orders and bad reaction from discgate and trunkgate.

If this is true, it means the R&D of the game was spread over fewer machines, effectively making them more expensive. The actual BOM wasn't technically higher, but you've got all those sunk fixed costs that have to be paid from somewhere.

3 weeks later
#662 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

People need to just click on the collections of those defenders that "the game will never get made", "it will be 12.5 k if it does", etc...
It is laughably predictable.

Even if that's true... who cares?

#773 3 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Holy shit......the amount of patience you have to have as a distributor to not want to rip the head off of misguided pinsiders is absolutely remarkable.
Joe that is impressive.

I mean.. Joe’s big showroom is a CHURCH!

#892 3 years ago
Quoted from fnosm:

This is a most un-JJP like way to roll.

They also did this on DI and I believe in Wonka

#899 3 years ago
Quoted from RJW:

No edition of DI has colour GI, and I'm thankful for that. The colour changing inserts provides more than enough colour in the game.

My mistake - i was actually thinking about the lit ramps for some reason.

#900 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I personally really dislike color changing GI. Totally cool with white. Color changing inserts is more than enough.
Granted I focus on playing games and less on lighting and modding and other accessories.

I generally agree - however, the occasional use of the effect to lit the whole PF in one color (for example, CGC's MB changes) are pretty cool looking. But if you overdo it, it just gets lost.

#945 3 years ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

I really Dont understand this turnaround.
Does movie companies and actor theese days fight for less exposure?

Chow Yun Fat isn’t a Hollywood guy - he’s not desperate to get his face everywhere; he’s SUPER good financially, and doesn’t GAF basically.

#946 3 years ago

I’m really curious to see how many people will actually put their money where their mouth is if this game is remade - 10-12K is nothing to sneeze at, and if it’s another fiasco for JJP they could be done. That would not be good.

#948 3 years ago
Quoted from chad:

I know this has no bearing on this topic and
I read just now that Disney is eliminating Jack Sparrow from future pirates movies and no more Dead Pool , as well to all the male lead characters in their movies. Anyone for a Mrs Hulk pinball ha ha.
So JJP get busy making more of the Pirates...

Huh?

#984 3 years ago

For what it's worth (read: nothing basically), as an owner, I would certainly like to see them remake the game. Because: PARTS! Eventually these games will break down and we don't want an Alien/TBL fiasco. Even if this imaginary desire for owners to see the price shoot up double was real, the game will drop like a rock if they start breaking and parts aren't available. Not everything in this game is off-the-shelf Williams stuff.

#999 3 years ago
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:

American Pinball games are just as "packed" for $6k-$7k. The remakes and Alice Cooper are also a solid value in the $6k range. There is no "value all day" at $11.5k. That's a splurge, plain and simple.

Gonna have to agree about AP games. I don’t have ACNC but it is definitely trending in the right direction. Nothing has yet compared to the Black Pearl mini playfield and the firing of the cannon.

3 weeks later
#1004 3 years ago
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:

Haven't played the pin very much but that was my favorite part as well. A very good gimmick.

It's still fun - one thing that is pretty vital to it holding up is that you frequently have to work very hard to make that one corner shot, and it's pretty easy (especially as a game goes on) to lose the ball over the side. You don't make it every single game; I've had lots of games where I never get the chance to sink the ship. Big part of the "one more game..."

#1007 3 years ago
Quoted from gliebig:

The worst is game over with xball still lit. So hard, but feels so good when you collect it.

LOL just had a game where I couldn’t pull off getting the EB. Major shame. Yep.

#1044 3 years ago
Quoted from JoinTheCirqus:

Yeah, we heard ya the first time, but they’ll never do it. Can’t do that to all the original customers, talk about a major shitstorm. Original creation would have been awesome.

Plus the fact if you ever played the prototype with the 3-way wheel, it didn’t make the ball go any differently (it actually moved around less if you can believe that) and it would have been a maintenance nightmare. Imagine all the whiners who don’t understand why their NIB game does play like a video game day 1.. and now they have to troubleshoot a complicated 3-part spinning mech? No thank you.

#1055 3 years ago
Quoted from ViperJelly:

One argument against a remake is that they would be competing with themselves and their new releases. GNR and Toy Story would have to compete with POTC for sales and assembly line time. The market for JJP games is smaller than that of a stern pro and in some ways they could be their own worst enemy.
But if there is a real chance to make additional $$$ then they should absolutely make it happen. Hopefully they have some insight into what potential sales could be.

This is consistent with how Williams did it back in the day. Even top selling games would eventually be discontinued so as not to cannibalize the market. Different time now though, so who knows.

#1061 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I'm of the opinion that is exactly why they stopped POTC... low margins and believing 'once you see wonka you'll forget all about POTC...' - but we saw how that actually went.

Keith Johnson said exactly why they stopped production on the “Bro do you pinball” podcast: the whinging over the triple spinning disc removal led to lesser presales, which lowered projections and lost them the margins on large parts orders, game became unsustainable. Then Wonka came around the corner and they went full in on that game

#1069 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Same thing?
Low Margin build vs the new hotness that would otherwise be competing with said low margin build.
The low margin is what makes the game high risk vs the opportunity gain of selling another game with higher margins and (you think) higher demand.
JJP was living so thin they can't even be bothered to stock a service/parts department inventory for the game they just freaking built.
Demand was already looking up by TPF when they announced YBR... but they wouldn't commit to the build. That means they either 1) don't believe the demand was enough/real or 2) Think they would be better off building another title.
Given the party line answers given around that time... I still put my money on #2

Just adding more detail

1 month later
#1083 3 years ago
Quoted from STxPinball:

There is one thing that all pinball players can count on when it comes to JJP. JJP listens to it's customers! They have made it clear that they listen to their customers and potential customers. The company's mission and drive is to be the best pinball company in the market with the highest level of brand loyalty. JJP will produce more POTC machines perhaps as a "Gold Edition" or something of that nature. Producing more POTC pins would create another degree of separation between JJP and Stern because it would prove that they do indeed take into account their customers wishes. JJP will go down as being the 'Player's Favorite' amongst pinball manufacturers because of the quality of their products and their high level of customer loyalty.

I think it would be great if JJP remade this game (what if we need parts?!) but I have to believe they wouldn’t listen to their fans at a loss. At least I hope not!

#1112 3 years ago
Quoted from Noma2017:

I wouldn’t bet on license expiration. COVID could toll some of those time periods and even if the contract isn’t explicit, there could be some reasonable understanding coming from Disney given the circumstances.

Not how licensing works though.

#1117 3 years ago
Quoted from Noma2017:

How so? Only hard and fast time periods with no force majeure clauses that could explicitly cover or implicitly cover time periods in which a business is shutdown by the government? Just asking as I don’t know.

Hard and fast exact date time periods. Has nothing to do with “government shutdown”, Disney licensing agreements are NOT unclear. Falls into the category of “tough luck, pal.” They could be granted an extension of the contract allows, but typically this is for a specific time period and not just “we were shut down for a few months, sorry!” Depends on their terms though.

#1121 3 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Exactly. Disney is not going to "help a guy out" just to be nice.
Assuming that JJP does not have some sort of (unusual) re-issue clause, they would not only have to repurchase the license, but would need to go through the lengthy product approval process again. Yes, it would probably be easier the second time through, but it would not be automatic. And who knows how many other people would have to sign off again (Depp, etc.).
Unless JJP can expect a new large run of games (not the 300-500 that people are talking about here), it is unlikely that it would make economic sense - regardless of how many pinsiders would like it.
Personally, I think it would be great if they could re-issue it. I just find it very unlikely - unless they can do a new full-size run of games updated for whenever the next movie gets released. And even then, it would probably be better to just do a whole new game design in that case.

I STILL think that they could get away with not relicensing the game, and just reissuing the layout and rule set with a tweaked set of art. I couldn't possibly care less about the Pirates movies, and was going to skip this one until I actually played it and couldn't get it out of my head

#1132 3 years ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

I think John or Wallace Shawn are good possibilities. Also, Tom's brother, Jim Hanks does all the Woody voice work outside of the theatrical films, so he could be a possibility. He does the direct to video things like Toy Story of Terror and any of the video games, etc.

Tom did Toy Story of Terror. Jim Hanks only does the video games and commercials, and I think he was Woody in the Buzz Lightyear cartoon but that’s it. Anyway, guaranteed Jim would do VO for the JJP game.

#1135 3 years ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

They'd have to also redo all the video and gameplay screen and animations, the avatars, everything. All traces of the movies characters and the license then start from scratch, for a limited re-run? This will not happen, dude.

If they're doing that, might as well see if they could apply a different license - something a little more economical and timely, perhaps. Doesn't have to be a pirate theme at all

1 month later
#1152 3 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Deeproot has Pinball?!?!

Deeproot has a plan ?!?!

#1165 3 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

I hear ya. I guess it just comes down to whether he was agreeing to the bet or agreeing with the statement from smalltownguy2. The fact that we're debating it means he didn't actually say anything at all, I suppose.

"I'll take that bet" means you are taking the opposite end of the proposed bet. Keith was saying something will be released before year's end. Not clear if he means a "new" game or what.

#1173 3 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

Stop making complete and total sense.

The devil you say! LOL

#1182 3 years ago
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:

Ok. Well, like I said, someone else may read it differently than me. It seemed to me that his implication was that it would take a lot to start the line back up for POTC (buying all the parts, etc.) and that JJP's heart was no longer in it. But I could be wrong.

He didn't actually *say* that, but it's a logical conclusion to draw. Spinning up parts isn't like ordering off Amazon. Plus who knows what the supplier lead times are now, if they're even working at capacity yet.

3 weeks later
#1214 3 years ago
Quoted from Butch2099:

Look at how many versions of WOZ were made and nobody really asked them to make them (IMHO). Here is a game that they KNOW they can sell. Even pre-order with non-refundable deposit. Hell, I would pay in full if they promised I would get one within 6 months.

If I were JJP, I'd open up a "put your money where your mouth is" interest list. All of a sudden everybody who's "in Day 1 on the remake!" will suddenly have car or house issues, or a wife who changed her mind...

#1222 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

JJP will sell a lot of jjPotC, even on a waitlist.
The one thing that has shocked me in this pandemic is how much money is still out there, changing hands. I assumed pin sales would slow down (I bring pins in, make mods, then send them on their way to keep my pin addiction in control), but that hasn't been the case. All of them have sold within a month, and some have been PRESOLD before I even listed them. Distributors I talk to have been saying they're very busy, too. It's the opposite of what I expected 8 months into this pandemic.

Agreed - I can only assume it’s people spending their vacation funds, since we can’t really go anywhere right now. I can say for sure that our vacation money is currently being spent on a whole new kitchen

#1270 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

That was long ago. Keith has since coded GnR. I am sure POTC will arrive soon when he writes the final chapter to his perfection

Yep. We want Keith to keep healthy! we also know he coded a POTC beta at least 6 months ago, so for Pete’s sake release it!

1 year later
#1331 2 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Exactly why they should make more.

There’s no possible way they will make more. The game doesn’t have a large profit margin, so new parts run are a risk. The factory is set up for standard bodies, wide bodies don’t make financial sense right now, the development team is almost antagonistic against the game, and the license is expired. I wish we could close this thread

#1336 2 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

You may be right. But I will go ahead and just say it. I don't care if I get downvotes or not (my upvote to downvote ratio may take a hit).
The loudest critics for not building more of a pin, be it POTC or TRON or whatever, come from people that already own the machine. And no offense to you Rdoyle1978 or Rarehero (both of which I tend to agree with on most things), but it sure seems that way to me.

I'd actually LOVE it if they built more because that would mean I can get replacement parts for it. Right now, forget about it.

#1338 2 years ago
Quoted from Heater:

This entire thread has entertained me to no ends. With absolutely no inside information or idea what JJP is going to do, people have speculated on if they were going to do another run. Ideas were offered based on rumors and/or logic. Yet people get "offended" if one group says one thing or another (again, based on rumor). Trolls come in and say the opposite just to get a rise. Owners state "no way" in dreams of protecting their "investment". Others think JJP is "Stupid" if they don't because the price has gone up. I jumped on the chance to get my LE when it came out because of the theme. I didn't care when disc and chest gate happened. I've waited patiently for the code update which is going to make this great game even better. As a owner, I pray they make more games. First because it would mean spare parts for it and second, would love to see more of this game in people's homes and arcades.

100% agree with all of this. There's no conspiracy. Do note however that JJP themselves (Pat Lawlor, specifically) did clearly state that they are not doing any more widebody games, and the factory is not set up for it.

#1347 2 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

They really should have replacement parts, even if they don't run it again. IMO. Not a huge inventory, but enough to be able to have people service them.

No argument here. It's a little scary knowing something will eventually break which may not be easily fixable. That's what made me eventually sell my Pinball Magic (... uh, along with 100 other reasons

#1349 2 years ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

If there is extremely high demand for a product, and it sells for three times more on the second hand market, you think you would go broke if you started production again?

Hej!

Define "extremely high demand"?
How many have sold on the second hand market?
How many would JJP need to *break even* if they started up small runs of parts.
Small runs are very expensive - they would have to increase the price considerably, and then how many buyers would drop out?

We do not know the answer to any of these questions, so it is hard to know the business model

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