I totally agree with you!

I’d rather lose color changing GI than a cool mechanical feature of the game. All the inserts are rgb which I like purely for making it easier to understand shots. Although I believe the color GI changes based on the bonus you can select in the fly for completing the PIRATE lames. Maybe an LE owner can chime in in that one.

Correct, and for each chapter if it wants you to target say the Blue shots the GI signals the color you need to aim for.

Rich people don't start thinking like poor people because they found a penny on the ground.. Insignificant scales are still insignificant even in a crisis.

I agree that it won't move the needle with Disney - I was just trying to help clarify the point he was trying to make. Your point is correct in that most companies don't give a damn about pinball royalties (especially Disney)

A lot of good clean back and forth banter here. I was in the camp with it will never be made again because Steve from JJP posted in one of these threads that it never would happen (he would know). That was about a year ago. But now … JJP Facebook page said to contact your distributor to show interest. Keith said the same in a online interview with Buffalo Pinball. Eric said the same in his online shindig. All 3 within a couple of weeks. Then I heard a couple of days ago that a parts supplier was getting asked if they could support another run. Maybe they are just "entertaining the idea" or "gather data to make a case for it to management" or something like that. Maybe it's just something to stir up some discussion during this downtime to see how serious the demand is. I own a JJPOTC that will likely never be sold while I'm still physically able to play it, so it doesn't really matter to me. If some parts become available, I might buy a few spares.

Would JJP Facebook, Keith, and Eric all say to contact a distributor if they knew that Pirates was really done? On the other hand, wouldn't JJP contact the distributors to tell them to record a "interest" count? Joe responded that JJP hasn't indicated anything. Hmmm.

All the pieces to this puzzle have been revealed, it's up to you whether you want to put them together and believe them. Jack said "what's wrong with building a little demand" in regards to when/if it would be remade. Jjp has a history of making new editions of games. JJP has the license per Jack to make more. JJP has already paid all the costs to design this and have the molds/fixturing/training done, they can reap a higher profit now by just paying their overhead and parts cost on any new run.

We need some sort of betting in this thread from the strongest voices on each side. The loser has to pay money to charity

My guess is licensing isn't a big issue. Why would JJP even start building a game if there wasn't a clear path to continue to build future games. I think the bigger issue is strictly cash flow. My sincere hope is they build more of these games so they can stock spare parts. Clearly the demand is there, and JJP already knows this. That being said there is almost zero chance the game will sell for $9500....my guess is if they see some success with the next few titles then they will do another small run of POTC and price the game at market value ($12.5K+)...I know this irritates some, but why would JJP leave money on the table? Yes they would sell less units, but at a much higher profit with less cash outlay....

Because 12.5K is the market value due to at least 2 factors: 1) limited number of machines that have been built, and 2) the fear that no more will be made by JJP.

If (or when) JJP starts making them again those first 2 factors become less of a force at raising the price of the pin. JJP will likely price it closer to 9.5K - 10.5K in order to sell units in the volume they would like. If they have a new LE that people think looks better, and the PF's are in great shape it could affect the price of the current ones.

Not really the discussion. It's not that Disney is financially against it... it's that there really isn't some magically significant incentive to make it happen.

Point being just because it's 'some money' doesn't mean it's necessarily enough to overcome any other possible objections. I really doubt Disney is the stick in the mud on this one anyways. But the idea that Disney will get a 5-6 digit sum is going to make them to pop up and pivot.. not really a factor IMO.

This is all about JJP's opportunity costs analysis...

100% agree with this ^

PFs will be better. They seem to have solved that issue.

It will also impact the current versions. I actually think the ever increasing numbers of ones changing hands are indicative of that already; even the realistic possibility is enough to sway some to sell (or not buy and wait it out)

Dreams are free boys ! I just hope they make more games so they start stocking spare parts.

For sure...and in related news we may NEVER get parts for Hobbit ...

Things are never good when you can't support your existing customer base.

This just in... Don’t forget to sign up so you know the moment the POTC announcement comes

https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/su/dwfbWyN

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maybe...maybe not...mine is perfect....the good news is you won't have to fork over any cash, because theres little chance they'll make a standard game. We all know u don't like to pay for all the nice upgrades that are on the LE....

Like everyone, I can only speculate if they will make more, but the idea that there is easy money to be made since they've already sunk costs into the design, etc. is not how well run companies think. It's all about maximizing return-on-investment. Would you be happy making 3% when you could make 8% investing someplace else.

If the line is underutilized because their new titles aren't selling well, then maybe making more POTC's is better than leaving idle capacity. Stern makes a bunch of titles a year and knows that they will occasionally have a relatively weak seller, so have made Vault Editions to take up the slack an integral part of their strategy. But JJP is still struggling to release 2 games a year after being in business for 7-years, so I doubt making more Pirates is Plan A. That's probably why Jack doesn't ruled it out because it could certainly be a fall back - and Eric & Keith naturally want to support their design. The main, super rich investor loves pinball, but all the signs are that he didn't buy JJP as a hobby, and is pushing a new strategy for better returns.

The point here is the development of a game costs a million (sunk cost). Maximizing sales of that game at the highest possible price is how you maximize ROI in this business.

It's hard to see how restarting and moving the established company, firing some of the most valuable and knowledgeable staff is a pure ROI move. It sounds like the rich investor loves pinball, has someone other that Jack convincing him to do stuff, and is pushing for more new games. If I owned the company and had plenty of spare money, I'd absolutely prioritize new games (for me!) too.

Yes, but hasn't that ship sailed. You can milk a product but that's not the sign of a growth company.

Agree that moving manufacturing and reorganizing at the same time that you're trying to develop & demonstrate a winning product strategy is tough to pull off. But I've personnally seen it happen a number of times in the name of improving financial performance - usually when management is under real pressure or is listening to some high-price, outside consultant.

All this chatter about them doing feelers and trying to see what part suppliers can get them and what not makes me think JJP could potentially be a rudderless ship so to speak.

Is there an unknown issue with GNR or the following title(toy story) that this has all of a sudden become a priority for them?

I’d just like to be able to order some spare parts already!

Sometimes the value is in spreading their brand more than whatever money they make in licensing fees.

Hard to say but everything I’ve ever heard is Disney is a real PITA to deal with on licensing even though they do license many things. No way to know for sure.

Disney were previously difficult. Things are easier now. And it depends on the license. Unfortunately (or fortunately at this point), the JJP POTC license is bare-bones and involves very little (limited access to assets, actors, etc.).

They had to get approval from every character on the game, art in pf, cabinet, and on the video display. Being that there is 20+ I’m sure it wasn’t easy, they mentioned this is one of their very first streams of the game.

If this was "from" and not "for" each character, I'd expect them to leverage the Black Pearl ship or something for any art changes.
But either way, they've already got those approvals if they want an extension on existing assets.

same as I do now

me owning a game has zero impact on its value.

Well, I am pretty cool and if your infatuation with me is any indication, then it would probably go up slightly; just because of how totally awesome I am.
My particular game would likely be worth a premium to someone like you that has such a stiffy for me.

Good question, but unfortunately I highly doubt he'll ever own the game...its too expensive and way too high tech for his taste...I mean come on who would want RGB lighting

Eric also mentioned in his last stream that that was the reason that Sao Feng isn't in the game at all despite being a bigger character than say Marty or Scrum. He said that Chow Yun-Fat wouldn't allow it no matter what, dollars didn't matter so it was a no go. I can't imagine having to deal with the rights and agents for 22 different actors who all have different dollar requirements and/or expectations for something like this.

And then once in a game, having Disney still okay what you did or not.

What a nightmare.

LTG : )

I really Dont understand this turnaround.

Does movie companies and actor theese days fight for less exposure?

No idea on that.

As far as the Pirate movies. Only time I know of that the actors and actresses own their audio and video rights. Which makes it near impossible to use them. Your people have to cut a deal with their people, some cheap, some expensive, at least one said no. Then what ever you get access to and put in a game. Then you'd still need Disney's approval, what if they say no ?

No idea how much money you'd burn on lawyers, agents, actors, actresses. And how long all this would take going back and forth with all of this and then also Disney.

We would have never seen the game.

Eric and JJP made a great game with what they did have to work with.

LTG : )

Makes you wonder if they should have just made a generic pirate pinball machine would it have been that much different?

Lots of posts on JJP’s Facebook page asking for another run of POTC. If your on FB jump on to JJP’s page and let them know you want POTC.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Once you are knee deep in something there might be no turning back. And last night on the Twitch feed Eric said he watched all the movies many times for ides. So a generic pirate pin might not have been his best work.

LTG : )

940 posts in this thread when it could've been answered with a...... Maybe.

Yeah, but...the answer is E-All of the Above!

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True, but where is the fun and drama in that?

Chow Yun Fat isn’t a Hollywood guy - he’s not desperate to get his face everywhere; he’s SUPER good financially, and doesn’t GAF basically.

I’m really curious to see how many people will actually put their money where their mouth is if this game is remade - 10-12K is nothing to sneeze at, and if it’s another fiasco for JJP they could be done. That would not be good.

.

Huh?

Right here. I'll take the Pepsi challenge for a new one. I'll bump this thread for you too.

I can tell you how I will react..

$10,000 for an LE - I’m in!
$12,000 for an LE - I’m out!