That’s an SE no thanks...

Hey its a POTC....same game play with less bling ... just saying

With pooling up the ass. THIS is why we need new runs of this game. The pooling in those pics is out of control.

But that one has "playfield issues" surely and is worthless according to some ...

Debating with with certain pinsiders is pointless. Once their mind is up they pointlessly beat their chests for months on a given topic, before being distracted by their next great crusade...

Well, I hope they do, most likely priced out of the market though.

I think Eric, got short changed here, so much talent ,time and effort he spent on this.

Pooling and chipping are not a concern of yours? I know it makes you feel more comfortable for you to assume your opposition you're arguing with are babbling idiots and are 100% wrong, but it isn't that simple. They made too few. Yes, they made limited amounts because they fucked things up. They took away vital features and initially pissed people off. That cost them sales, at first. The fact is they screwed stuff up, their target audience realized that even with the disk and trunk mess ups, that the game was still great.

Now they are probably feuding and waiting for Disney to figure out this whole Johnny Depp domestic violence issue, whilst struggling with horrible playfield issues. So yes, I see why more haven't been made. Is cost a factor? Many seem to think so, but all their games are loaded down. That wasn't an issue before and it most likely isn't the only one, now.

Will we jump on any old pirates that comes onto the market place regardless of blatant quality issues? No. Do we still want the game? Of course.

So stop assuming because you have an opinion that the other side must be blatantly retarded. The world doesn't work that way.

Yes, my mind is made up, as you said. It is made up that want one. Not just any on fire piece of shit example. A nice one... as do most of us. Not you obviously, but most of us.

I have an SE, not by choice, but late purchaser and only one I could find. I put $1k into it and I think it's better than a non-mod LE.

Hey man - u can always do a play field swap if your really worried about it....just saying....as you're never gonna see a NIB game for $9500

Same here...I actually love the SE! I added the star map add on that IMO, is better than the original star map...I also added the trunk mods and a few other mods...it really makes the game unique!

Same here. At the time, I was also told all LE's were gone. I added better powder coating and the best mods.

It's ironic that fewer SE's were produced than LE's.

Its basically the same game minus a few nice items....I like all the LE upgrades although I don't think the powder coating is that great

The only differences from what I remember were the following:
Star Map
Spinning Pop Bumper Toys
Powder Coated Rails
Devils Triangle
Invisglass
Sound Control
Shaker Motor

I ended up adding a devils triangle...got it from a guy who had an LE who bought an extra, Shaker Motor, Sound Control Mod and the aftermarket star map...makes the game more personal...and I also love the stainless vs the powder coat!

sounds about right...all are good upgrades although I still don't know whats up on the star map I somehow always convince myself it makes sense to pay another $1K on JJP games ...shaker, glass, exterior volume/headphone jack, and powder coating alone are worth almost that amount.

RGB GI is the big one and the one you can’t mod back into the game. Also own a SE.

With all of this banter back and forth, I'm still left wondering what the actual opportunity for JJP might be... I'd really like to see them remake but it's hard to imagine the same hype driving presales of an unseen R&M (before epidemic) can match the reality of POTC (after epidemic).

I think we'll need to wait a few more months for the economy to settle for any real clarity. Although government has printed $4T to prop things up, it won't last long. Values of pinball games are propped up by resale value. I'd have a much MUCH harder time buying $7k+ games if I thought I couldn't resell and recoup most of my money (if trouble hits...).

Here are my from-ass-estimates of demand TODAY (prior to an economic recession):
100 units @ $15,000 - there are enough rich comfortable pinheads to sell 100 of anything (see Elvira SE)
250 units @ $12,500 - it may be the GOAT, but to even reach 250, I think they'd need to say final/last opportunity and add a few enhancements (chest mod, Lior mods)
<500 units @ $9500 - I'm less certain about this considering the volume from Chicago Gaming... I mean, if they could sell 1000 of MBr, then you'd like to think POTC would sell 5000... but our community must be too small.

I don't understand how people can say with absolute certainty that they're not going to make this title again from a company that has made how many different versions of Wizard of Oz? It's not like you're talking about a different company. They make pinball machines. That's what they do.

Here's a machine that's already designed mapped out and a proven build. All you have to do is order the parts. Code already sounds like it's in the final stage. It's not an unknown entity. Hell, they even have a company making the playfields already for them. You really think all of them are replacements? If they were so close to bankruptcy why would they even replace people's playfields?

Would you rather release a new game and have people bitching about the code for 2 years or crank out something that people want and is complete?

Just look at Chicago gaming. They can make any game they want but they're still milking what is selling.

I had one, got offered stupid money for it so it had to go. I debated it hard because I loved the game. Looking at the track record of Wizard of Oz I had to bet that they were going to make it again at some point.

Disclaimer: I have no inside knowledge and I'm just speculating like everybody else.

I don't think anybody is 100% certain of anything. Over a long enough period of time if demand stays high and keeps rising someone will make more. Look at mm. That took around two decades and ended up costing about double it's prior nib price though...

Inflation adjusted MMr LE was about $1500 more than an original MM.

196DB06C-6760-4866-B758-346420DD894C (resized).jpeg

Maybe. Look at a game like Tron. Super basic, low BOM and the resale market is ridiculous for it. Stern could have re-run that multiples times by now and sold lots of them, way more than a GOT or third time around AC/DC vault but they haven't. Why? Disney Licensing (same as Pirates)? Something else? There has to be a reason because the cash is just sitting there and is currently being collected by everyone who sells a "modded Pro" for crazy dollars now a days. I can understand not doing LOTR since it is the Whitestar board set and has a bigger BOM, but Tron is an absolute no brainer. Disney even has the Tron coaster coming out next year at WDW so they should have at least some motivation to pump the license if given the opportunity, yet everyone waiting for that re-run is still waiting.

Thanks to all who contribute to this thread. Its always interesting. I have never seen one title generate so much passion.

Check any of the countless TRON vault threads and you will see a similar story.

i dont see much passion here. Just normal pinball talk. I definitely dont have any real passion for this title. Just a fun one topic to discuss currently... not much else going on in pinball, ya know.

I think the recent petition page gauging the current demand says a lot...

that a petition page is silly...

If people have interest, then contact your distributor. Your distributor is the link to the manufacturer and has more sway and value in their data.

why contact your distributor when u can purchase directly from JJP?....just go to the source...that way they know people really really really want to get this game built....I'm sure they'll get right on it

actually a good point.

Calling your distributor AND JJP is not a bad idea at all.

Exactly, because JJP doesn't already know this information so they need their distribution network to remind them...otherwise they might forget to order parts

I mean... I suppose you could call them and tell them you dont want it to ever get made again? but that would seem a bit odd

As Keith pointed out - they pulled POTC due to initial sales being poor and they had Wonka ready and felt it would be a monster success. I saw pulling POTC off the line as a temporary move and not a permanent one.

JJP has spent so much time and effort on designing and coding on POTC and they built very few. I can't imagine that they are going to throw it away when POTC has seen so much appeal and demand after a few months in the market. JJP has to capitalize when one of their machines has that much demand. They have done it several times with WOZ and I would expect another LE of POTC (at least) to sell more pinball machines. I think the lull in production is more the COVID situation, and moving the production to Chicago. They will make more POTC's - the only real question for me is the price JJP will set them at.

What about licensing? That expires too...

In for the LE when JJP decides to make more!

I would think that would have to factor in. However, I don't know how much longer they have on it now (they may have plenty of time), or the cost or ability to extend it (if they needed to)

I was told that it is not currently a factor, but have no way of verifying.

Guessing someone that has better sleuthing skills could figure out when the license started and how long it runs for. Guessing that they can be extended as needed also. (also guessing that Disney would be happy to take extra fees at this time as they appear to be struggling a bit in Covid world)

At TPF, Jack said they had 3 years remaining on the current license. Getting that lame cereal-box-class license extended should be trivial as well.

so 3 years from March 2019? so all the way to March 2022?

Disney was losing 500 million a WEEK due to domestic park closures... you think some JJP royalties are going to grab their eye?

I think his point is that with losses Disney may be less likely to reject the license extension request. But who knows...

I thought they made about a 1000 units which certainly isn’t great but more than “very few.” It also took distributors some time to sell their inventory after production stopped - including foreign distributors shipping games back to the US (pretty crazy even if favorable exchange covered shipping costs).

Hard it understand why a beautiful, packed, big license game didn’t sell better even with the delays and surrounding drama, but there’s plenty of reasons for JJP to question how many will truly pony up $10k+ at this stage. Maybe they will but it sure isn’t an obvious business decision.

At this point you have to believe the investors want a series of major sellers, not the failed model of OK seller, WOZ, crappy seller, WOZ...

Really?!? No RGB GI? I don’t recall that being advertised as missing on the original flyers....

Correct, standard editions do not have the RGB GI.

This is a most un-JJP like way to roll.

They also did this on DI and I believe in Wonka

What a shame to hobble such beautiful games.

No edition of DI has colour GI, and I'm thankful for that. The colour changing inserts provides more than enough colour in the game.

why? clearly they are making the LE game more enticing to the buyer...for me personally its pretty easy to justify an additional $1K on JJP games.

I personally really dislike color changing GI. Totally cool with white. Color changing inserts is more than enough.

Granted I focus on playing games and less on lighting and modding and other accessories.

Yep. So much easier to see and play the game with white GI. Color GI never seems bright enough. Hobbit and DI are so much easier to play in a dimly light room than JJP's other games.

well now you know what version of POTC to buy...don't buy the LE ...too many nice upgrades

My mistake - i was actually thinking about the lit ramps for some reason.

I generally agree - however, the occasional use of the effect to lit the whole PF in one color (for example, CGC's MB changes) are pretty cool looking. But if you overdo it, it just gets lost.