(Topic ID: 245505)

Will JJP make more POTC?

By Nokoro

4 years ago


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  • 1,366 posts
  • 200 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Dr-pin
  • Topic is favorited by 37 Pinsiders

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“Will JJP make more?”

  • Yes, more LEs 66 votes
    11%
  • Yes, more SEs 23 votes
    4%
  • Yes, more SEs and LEs 82 votes
    14%
  • Yes, some other version 148 votes
    25%
  • No, they are done. 273 votes
    46%

(592 votes)

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There are 1,366 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 28.
#551 3 years ago

I hope they make more just so there are more parts in stock. I worry that parts will reach unobtanium status.

#552 3 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

I don’t know the margins, I had thought initially they were losing money on Woz when it was being sold for $6500. Based on that, I’d think they got margins down a bit from that and raised prices so I think maybe I’m in the ballpark. I could be totally wrong, though. my example was purely illustrative and shows the need to be producing in volume, not building 250-500 units of potc.

Makes sense....which is why Stern is so successful

#553 3 years ago
Quoted from Palmer:

I hope they make more just so there are more parts in stock. I worry that parts will reach unobtanium status.

Its my understanding that wire forms are still unobtainable !

#554 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Its my understanding that wire forms are still unobtainable !

I've been waiting for shooter lane wireform. The piece that screws down was welded in the wrong spot and the ball hits it on plunge. It does work at least, and I can still play thankfully, but my game shipped with an extra-difficult (random!) skill shot.

#555 3 years ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

I've been waiting for shooter lane wireform. The piece that screws down was welded in the wrong spot and the ball hits it on plunge. It does work at least, and I can still play thankfully, but my game shipped with an extra-difficult (random!) skill shot.

Same situation for me on my CE.

#556 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Makes sense....which is why Stern is so successful

yeah, I think the one of the stern distros stated the build cost for a game was in the neighborhood of $3k against a pro street price of around $5500. I'd guess stern premium and LEs have slightly higher build costs, but margins are significantly higher.

#557 3 years ago

I'd guess Stern is the only company making good gross margins on pinball machines. Maybe CGC is too, even despite their delays? Stern also has the biggest payroll by far. I have no idea what their net margins would be. I wonder if JJP is even cash flow positive yet.

#558 3 years ago

FWIW, I think he could sell 250-500 black pearl potc's for $12500. Given the price of the LE, its easy to see. Do you want a used POTCLE for 11500+ or a NIB black pearl for 12500? Easy choice for me.

#559 3 years ago

where are you getting used POTCLE's for 11,500

#560 3 years ago
Quoted from luch:

where are you getting used POTCLE's for 11,500

Average recent LE sales versus asking prices. Most low play HUO examples with no playfield issues seem to be selling between $11,500 - $12,500. More for NIB of course, but there can't be many of those left.

#561 3 years ago

It’s not like stern is making a profit of 3k on each machine as you have to calculate shipping cost to the distributor and also take the cut from the distributor so the profit is actually a lot lower than 3k.
I work in the amusement business in Belgium and if stern is able to produce a stern pro for 3k cost price, that’s amazingly cheap considering how complex of a product a pinball machine is to manufacture and code nowadays!
I believe the 3k cost is also a number from quite some years ago.

And selling the game for a NIB price of 11,5k, would there be much demand? Now it’s rare, once they announce it’s back available it’s a different animal for sure!

I don’t believe jjp would have a lot of profit on potc, even if they have a profit of let’s say 2k on the game.
Why would they stop making it than? Than demand must be low or they rather make a less complicated game on the line with more profit margins?
It’s all speculation but cutting a game run short is a strange situation for sure!
It’s all speculation though as only jack can answer this one!

#562 3 years ago

they won't make much money doing a run of 250-500 potc. Unlikely potc ever gets rerun unless demand is considerably higher, and I doubt it is, and/or they can get the margin up/build cost down. Otherwise it doesn't make sense financially. They are better off moving to the next cornerstone game and getting sales volumes up.

#563 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Average recent LE sales versus asking prices. Most low play HUO examples with no playfield issues seem to be selling between $11,500 - $12,500. More for NIB of course, but there can't be many of those left.

pinside average is not the reality , most are around the 12k -14k range , so yeah were close give or take

#564 3 years ago
Quoted from luch:

pinside average is not the reality , most are around the 12k -14k range , so yeah were close give or take

Thats about right....all depending on mods, condition, game plays, etc.....my bet is fully modded out POTC's with little games plays in almost perfect condition (no game is perfect) are fetching close to $14K ....

#565 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Thats about right....all depending on mods, condition, game plays, etc.....my bet is fully modded out POTC's with little games plays in almost perfect condition (no game is perfect) are fetching close to $14K ....

Seems like 12k is the sweet spot if you want to sell a HUO LE in a reasonable amount of time. This LE has been for sale at 14.5k OBO for 3 months..

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/90559

#566 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

FWIW, I think he could sell 250-500 black pearl potc's for $12500. Given the price of the LE, its easy to see. Do you want a used POTCLE for 11500+ or a NIB black pearl for 12500? Easy choice for me.

Maybe would work in the us, but I Dont think you sell many units in europé. With taxes, freight etc that means a nib-machine will land close to 16k dollar, which is for almost Everybody beyond doable/resonable.
I honestly think for jjp, the normal le pricing is as far as you're able to go, if you want to sell machines.

#567 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Seems like 12k is the sweet spot if you want to sell a HUO LE in a reasonable amount of time. This LE has been for sale at 14.5k OBO for 3 months..
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/90559

I hear ya....a guy sold a loaded LE for almost $15K not to long ago, and that didnt have the dauntless mod

#568 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I hear ya....a guy sold a loaded LE for almost $15K not to long ago, and that didnt have the dauntless mod

That’s kind of the key right there, “not to long ago”. Not to long ago you didn’t have to pay $10 for a roll of toilet paper and Wonder if your job or 401k would be there tomorrow. For a select few maybe but for JJP to roll the dice and capital on a 14k Maybe would be a foolish decision in this economy. Everyone wants to see new releases or even old ones back but few I suspect will be jumping to drop 10k plus on an unnecessary hobby purchase for Many months.

#569 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I hear ya....a guy sold a loaded LE for almost $15K not to long ago, and that didnt have the dauntless mod

Always gunna be one offs.. my buddy bought a NIB POTC-CE for 16k last month.

#570 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Always gunna be one offs.. my buddy bought a NIB POTC-CE for 16k last month.

Pretty big story behind that...It’s not like it was listed here in the US. Guy took a big gamble. One off is right haha

#571 3 years ago

And a ce sold for 21k today.. crazy times

#573 3 years ago

I do hope they remake the game. I want one back

#574 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

That’s kind of the key right there, “not to long ago”. Not to long ago you didn’t have to pay $10 for a roll of toilet paper and Wonder if your job or 401k would be there tomorrow. For a select few maybe but for JJP to roll the dice and capital on a 14k Maybe would be a foolish decision in this economy. Everyone wants to see new releases or even old ones back but few I suspect will be jumping to drop 10k plus on an unnecessary hobby purchase for Many months.

I get it....theres several factors that drive value and ultimately sales (timing, market, demand, geography, condition, mods, emotion, etc...)? I was merely suggesting that a HUO, low game play, full loaded POTC LE could sell for as much as $15K .... I don't think its a crazy price although it could take a while to find a buyer...

#575 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Not to long ago you didn’t have to pay $10 for a roll of toilet paper

Couldn't you 3D print some ?

LTG : )

Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
#576 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Couldn't you 3D print some ?
LTG : )

I'm sure he could...but it might hurt a little

#577 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I'm sure he could...but it might hurt a little

He could customize the fit.

Of course if he sold the TP Mod on his website, you'd have to go there in person to be fitted.

LTG : )

1 week later
#578 3 years ago

Does anyone know why Butch Peel left JJP?
First Frank, then TPF and covid cancels of events for awhile. Move to Chicago...
Now Butch...JJP cant catch a break.

#579 3 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Does anyone know why Butch Peel left JJP?
First Frank, then TPF and covid cancels of events for awhile. Move to Chicago...
Now Butch...JJP cant catch a break.

Posted from another thread.

Based on what Kaneda said it wasn't Butch's decision, he didn't want to leave, and was a total shock to him. Again this is just what Kaneda reported. However, according to Kaneda Butch's daughter reached out to him and said "It was definitely unexpected and abrupt, he never would of quit working for JJP. They made it clear they didn't have a role for him anymore and that it was permanent. We were all in disbelief, very sad".

There's probably other things at play as we don't know the company's internal workings. Things at JJP may be changing but I still think are trying to make the highest quality loaded pinball machines in the business. At the same time it's sad to see people like Butch be let go when they did an incredible job.

#580 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Posted from another thread.
Based on what Kaneda said it wasn't Butch's decision, he didn't want to leave, and was a total shock to him. Again this is just what Kaneda reported. However, according to Kaneda Butch's daughter reached out to him and said "It was definitely unexpected and abrupt, he never would of quit working for JJP. They made it clear they didn't have a role for him anymore and that it was permanent. We were all in disbelief, very sad".

Well yeah, that may be Kaneda's spin. But there are always two sides to every story. This isn't a movie where there is a good side and a bad. There must be more we don't know. Life isn't this black and white.

#581 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Posted from another thread.
Based on what Kaneda said it wasn't Butch's decision, he didn't want to leave, and was a total shock to him. Again this is just what Kaneda reported. However, according to Kaneda Butch's daughter reached out to him and said "It was definitely unexpected and abrupt, he never would of quit working for JJP. They made it clear they didn't have a role for him anymore and that it was permanent. We were all in disbelief, very sad".
There's probably other things at play as we don't know the company's internal workings. Things at JJP may be changing but I still think are trying to make the highest quality loaded pinball machines in the business. At the same time it's sad to see people like Butch be let go when they did an incredible job.

Thank you. It was the other thread that sent me searching the past hour for more Butch news.
I think with so many strikes across the plate for JJP, I worry about future of company.

#582 3 years ago

Kaneda said Pat Lawlor is calling all the shots and he didn't interface well with Butch. So butch got shown the door.

BTW there is a playboy bunny named Pat Lawler. Cool right?

#583 3 years ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

Well yeah, that may be Kaneda's spin. But there are always two sides to every story. This isn't a movie where there is a good side and a bad. There must be more we don't know. Life isn't this black and white.

Quoted from Doctor6:

Well yeah, that may be Kaneda's spin. But there are always two sides to every story. This isn't a movie where there is a good side and a bad. There must be more we don't know. Life isn't this black and white.

Actually there's three sides to every story Your's Mine and the truth
If you listen to Kaneda you would think Pat is part of the axis of evil!
This dude just fills in large unknown areas with his own spill and it's
usually bad spill when it comes to JJP!

#584 3 years ago

Whatever the reason, I for one, will miss him. I spoke to him a couple of times, once before buying the 2.0 lighting system for WOZ and once after he helped me with a technical issue. He was an enormously nice guy who seemed to really care about what he did. The manuals that he put together alone show you how much he cared about quality and use-ability.

#585 3 years ago
Quoted from fnosm:

Kaneda said Pat Lawlor is calling all the shots and he didn't interface well with Butch.

Lets review this for a second... 1st he rails against POTC for months and months. He basically said the game is horrible. He hated the game. Then he does 500 podcasts ripping on JJP for never doing anything right, essentially saying they need stronger leadership. So let me see if I get this straight ...

1) He tried to BUY a POTC CE so that makes him a total hypocrite because he must have bashed the game across 50 podcasts. Was that his way of admitting he was wrong? He likes to rub in peoples faces he's some kind of important person in the pinball world. Last I checked he doesn't own a game, doesn't make games, doesn't sell games, doesn't design games, doesn't make mods, isn't a top tournament player, so tell me again how he's important? I'm lost!

2) NO ONE from JJP would tell Kaneda anything why would they... he bashes the company along with many other companies honestly on a weekly basis. . You can't trust anything this guy says because... I mean isn't this the guy who told us Aliens was being remade. I'm still waiting!

3) Kaneda whines like a baby about how JJP needs better leadership, and because and only because he thinks Pat Lawlor booted him from a JJP fan club facebook page he does a full blown BASH PAT podcasts. I mean you can't make this stuff up. Willy Wonka is a successful game as was Dialed In with virtually no mechanical complaints. So Pat is trying to streamline the company, help make the company profitable, using his vast experience and now Kaneda whines about that... HUH! I thought he said JJP needed more leadership. So the guy who made the biggest selling pinball of all time not to mention Twilight Zone is reshaping the company some how that makes Pat a villain? Again I thought this is what Kaneda said multiple times JJP needs more than anything. Hey whether or not Pat's changes are what you want to see from JJP, doesn't matter because Kaneda bashing on Pat taking control of the company goes against virtually everything the guy has said for the last 200 podcasts. .

Move the manufacturing close to your engineers, developers I guess that is a bad idea as well? I don't think so! I'm not defending Pat just merely stating Kaneda likes to have his cake and eat to and it doesn't work that way. Kaneda (Chris) gets kicked out of everything he stated so himself... so because JJP doesn't actually think you're a fan and removes you from their facebook group doesn't warrant a tirade podcasts. I'd say grow up, but we're talking about a guy who cares more about winning a 2 dollar plastic award than probably anyone in the World. I'm not longer listening to his podcasts because I can't stomach listening to this guy anymore brag on himself while putting everyone else down... but I'm still going to vote for him for the 2021 Twippy. Why? Can you imagine if he didn't win he might jump off a high rise building in New York and we shouldn't want that to happen. LOL

#586 3 years ago

Back to the point about POTC being built again I would only say again... they built WOZ again and again so anything is possible.

With that being said I honestly think they've moved onto a new page. Guns N Roses has to be done and would have shipped if it wasn't for the virus right? That game is going first. How far off can Toy Story be? Pat was done with Willy Wonka over a year ago and how long does it take to develop a new game... one year? I would bet just about anything that Pat is playing Toy Story right now. I would bet they're trying to finish up the CGI FX fx for Toy Story, pricing out parts, lining that sucker up as we speak. I honestly think their plan was release Guns at TPF and Toy Story at Pinball Expo.

I'm just guessing but I think JJP has two games piled on top of each other right now and those two games will be the priority!

Eric might already be moving on to game #8 by now. I think you're going to see the new JJP (Chicago version) focus on the future.

Pinball collectors probably don't want more games, but honestly I hope they do make another batch because the game deserves it!

#587 3 years ago

Do you know what I love about this game MORE THAN ANYTHING... that mod companies are STILL making COOL mods for it!

I also hear even more mods are on the way that really shows how cherished this game really is! No matter more games or not its going down as a classic! To the people who put this game on location you guys are pinball heroes because you're allowing a very valuable game get discovered on a daily basis. Again I hope they make more but I honestly think you're going to see Guns and Roses and game #7 right behind it. The fact that we're talking about it just proves how great it is.

AND IF WE COULD JUST GET THAT NEW CODE!!!! HINT HINT!

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#588 3 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Rather than asking ourselves whether JJP will make more POTC, I prefer to ask why didn’t JJP make more? When JJP was running the game, it was selling yet they stopped production around the 1000 game mark. Was it a high BOM, was demand saturated, was design susceptible to breaking, was it impossible to source parts, was the cost to reup the license high or maybe there was a lack of desire to renew by licensor. Of the possible reasons, having a high BOM doesn’t register as a legitimate reason because JJP could simply raise selling price.
Jack and Eric have been interviewed numerous times, but we have yet to hear why JJP stopped making JJPOTC, so we are left wondering. Why JJP quit running POTC holds the answer to whether JJP will consider running more. Some interviewer needs to ask Jack why?

I thought this was answered and it came down to ordering parts. The parts need to be ordered in large quantities to get to a reasonable BOM and Jack didn’t see the demand at the time so they continued on to get to the next game.

#589 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

I've played both and the single disk that's in the production version actually produces more ball movement.... but man that triple disk version was sweet looking and neat to see.

I agree and also played both versions. The triple disk is or was the best way to go as far as being cool and unique.it did not throw the ball around any differnt then the single disk and was probably better then the single as far as throwing the ball to fast and out of control.

#590 3 years ago
Quoted from Crumbalimb:

I agree and also played both versions. The triple disk is or was the best way to go as far as being cool and unique.it did not throw the ball around any differnt then the single disk and was probably better then the single as far as throwing the ball to fast and out of control.

Magna Slings...triple spinning discs....people will love/hate everything.

#591 3 years ago

License is the only reason Jack (ok mabie pat Lawlor if you believe he has the control in JJP as some claim, and he's jealous of its success) would not make more.He has all the cost of design and code already invested so making more of something that will sell out a limited run like rick and morty is a no brainer.Its pure cash and thats what its all about at the end of the day. It would be nice if JJP would tell us the facts as to why production stopped but that's probably not something JJP wants to admit or say due to business relations with Disney, cash flow,or hoping something could change and saying why would only hurt those chances.At the time it was being made they were so far behind on getting to their next game(Wonka) it was embarrassing for them if you ask me.They also were delayed because they made a bunch more Hobbits to use up parts.So my theory is they needed to move onto Wonka because if we all remember POTC was not flying out the door in sales back then.They had a super popular theme in Wonka and again it's a Lawlor game,so let's move on and get to the next game because we also have 2-3 more in the works.And still it's taking them over a year to get Wonkas out,and now they have Toy Story,and GNS ready to go.So obviously they need to get manufacturing issues up to a more reasonable output, or they already have over 3 years of games lined up.So now the move to Chicago, and hopefully they can finally get numbers up to meet their demand of what they could be selling. So many more units could be selling and its got to be killing them knowing they are leaving millions of dollars on the table that's not being earned.So if and only if they have a license issue and I am assuming the move to Chicago gets production were it needs to be, it's going to be remade.The profit margin in the game might make it less desirable to remake but again at the end of the day JJP has a few million of most likely guaranteed cash waiting for them with a limited run,so why would they not take the cash. I am fortunate enough to own one, and I totally think it would be great if they made more.It's a great game and it should be in more locations and homes so more people can play it.I personally hope they figure out how to get games out the door quicker and get to their new Titles.Does everyone realise the cool games we don't get to play because JJP can't get their manufacturing act together."Jack we love your games and want to give you our money, so please start getting games out the door".:]

#592 3 years ago
Quoted from Crumbalimb:

License is the only reason Jack (ok mabie pat Lawlor if you believe he has the control in JJP as some claim, and he's jealous of its success) would not make more.He has all the cost of design and code already invested so making more of something that will sell out a limited run like rick and morty is a no brainer.Its pure cash and thats what its all about at the end of the day.

I said the same exact thing a couple of weeks ago, but now I actually believe there is SOME truth to the Pat Lawlor rumor. It depends on how much of it is true as to whether it will be remade. Jack left the door open in his last interview, but if Pat does have the investors ear, it might not happen. It will be interesting to see what happens. If it does happen it will be after GnR in 2021 and possibly before Toy Story. I own one so it doesn’t really matter to me. It would be nice to know I could get parts later on though.

#593 3 years ago

Hmmmm This was posted by JJP today, I wonder why they are highlighting POTC with Eric streaming game play? Also note the Interesting comment by JJP to a question on their Instagram page.

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#594 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Hmmmm This was posted by JJP today, I wonder why they are highlighting POTC with Eric streaming game play? Also note the Interesting comment by JJP to a question on their Instagram page.
[quoted image][quoted image]

In the stream he said he will be streaming all JJP games and the contact your distributor comment was to let them know and they would let JJP know how many serious buyers there could be. That’s honestly the strongest chance to see this game pushed forward. The distributors need to hear directly from hundreds of buyers so JJP can see the potential. Would love to see the LE’s back on the line.

#595 3 years ago

Couldn't it be that they want to start introducing the code to the public? What else do they have to do? They can't launch a new game

#596 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Couldn't it be that they want to start introducing the code to the public? What else do they have to do? They can't launch a new game

Don’t think so. He said clearly in the stream they are working on it but there is a longer delay now with a few projects in front of completion. Keith pretty much said the same in his interview last week. It will come, I have little to worry about when it comes to seeing final wizard modes. Lol.

#597 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Would love to see the LE’s back on the line.

I hope so as well. I contacted my distributor and shared my desire to get a LE and he mentioned they are creating a list to send to JJP.

#598 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

In the stream he said he will be streaming all JJP games and the contact your distributor comment was to let them know and they would let JJP know how many serious buyers there could be. That’s honestly the strongest chance to see this game pushed forward. The distributors need to hear directly from hundreds of buyers so JJP can see the potential. Would love to see the LE’s back on the line.

Yeah, the "contact your distributor" comment from JJP staff and from the JJP Facebook page is definitely new. Keith said the same thing in his Buffalo Pinball interview a few days back. When asked about why Pirates production stopped Keith mentioned that there simply wasn't any demand for the game at the time. He said a decision about whether or not to order more parts had to be made and that demand only went up when they pulled the game from production.

#599 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Yeah, the "contact your distributor" comment from JJP staff and from the JJP Facebook page is definitely new. Keith said the same thing in his Buffalo Pinball interview a few days back. When asked about why Pirates production stopped Keith mentioned that there simply wasn't any demand for the game at the time. He said a decision about whether or not to order more parts had to be made and that demand only went up when they pulled the game from production.

It won’t happen. Jjp would be foolish to do a run based on “expressed demand”. They will also need to charge north of $12k to make a run work, particularly if it’s a small run. My guess is PL won’t allow it.

#600 3 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

It won’t happen. Jjp would be foolish to do a run based on “expressed demand”. They will also need to charge north of $12k to make a run work, particularly if it’s a small run. My guess is PL won’t allow it.

Why not? Why should we have to buy second hand ones for 14,500 with shit playfields? There is a demand and they'd be printing their own money. 12,000 for a game with actually good playfields? Not a stretch to think of now that people obviously want them.

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