(Topic ID: 100355)

Will CPR run Eight Ball Deluxe playfields?


By cdnpinballer

5 years ago



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  • 201 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by vid1900
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There are 201 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.
#101 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

So these PFs have never been exposed to light and heat.. they should be similar to what we see under flippers/plastics in 'in the wild' playfields to a large degree.

The claim that "the white of the pool balls and banner flags is slightly brighter than under the plastics - proving there are two different colors" may appear that way on some EBD's and trick your eye into thinking they started that way.

But they started the same white.

The later differences have to do with exposure differences. Under plastics, the white "bakes" from the light/heat of the bulbs. Out on the playfield surface, the white doesn't. GI bulbs can not only deepen the ink/lacquer under plastics, but sometimes (and we have all seen this on some games) around the bulb holes the white bakes to a extreme orange/brown "cooked ring". Don't forget that tungsten filaments (yes - little 44 and 47 bulbs) DO produce UV. Even your average 500 watt work-lights sold at Home Depot and Wal-Mart come with UV-glass faces, and warning stickers nowadays.

All those white GI areas CAN and WILL yellow MORE than white out on the general playfield. The laquer and ink reacts worse to heat/light from the bulbs (accelerated), than just "general light" through the playfield glass.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Where I think you had failed to convey to people is clarifying the # of colors that were laid down

9 colors on EBD. No more, no less.

I banged on this fact ad nauseum. Maybe you didn't see those posts way up above:

Post #84 "Remember - the IPB (original film) 9-color print confirms there is *no additional spot color for a creme*... So either it's ALL white, or it's ALL cream. Pool balls = slingshot areas."

Post #81 "We can see the 9 color pallate on IPB's repro's (on the apron). There is only one color for whatever is under the plastics (GI areas) and the white areas of the pool balls, etc."

Post #62 "You can see Gene's print from original films - and the 9 color palatte on the apron. It was Gene's screener that screened the white layer as a creme (as I was told by Gene AND Kim) "

Post #51 (photo showing IPB repro from original Bally films, with 9-color palatte shown on apron)

Post #42 (Gatecrasher's even better IPB repro photo, with 9-color palatte shown on apron)

#102 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I thought as well.. but why are those playfields that yellow not yellowed under flippers and plastics which would be exposed to the same environment and age?

Many solvent based inks and paints naturally yellow over time, whether exposed to UV light or not.

Those paints, when sanded, are still just as yellow deep down, as the top exposed layer is.

-

Then you have the lacquer top coat that darkens from UV exposure.

That is why you see the "ghosts" of flippers or plastic posts, where the playfield is lighter under them.

The clear lacquer is less dark where shaded from the light.

#103 4 years ago

Note here where the flipper has shaded the lacquer from UV exposure, causing the "flipper ghost".

256973-i.jpg

#104 4 years ago

You have tape on your mouth. You can't be sticking your tongue out like this...

#105 4 years ago

Damn....Ma Bad.....

Quoted from dothedoo:

You have tape on your mouth. You can't be sticking your tongue out like this...

#106 4 years ago

So to recap, it's not going to be made. But if it were you could have it in any color you like. As long as you like white. Did I miss anything?

#107 4 years ago
Quoted from KevinCPR:

9 colors on EBD. No more, no less.
I banged on this fact ad nauseum. Maybe you didn't see those posts way up above:
Post #84 "Remember - the IPB (original film) 9-color print confirms there is *no additional spot color for a creme*... So either it's ALL white, or it's ALL cream. Pool balls = slingshot areas."
Post #81 "We can see the 9 color pallate on IPB's repro's (on the apron). There is only one color for whatever is under the plastics (GI areas) and the white areas of the pool balls, etc."
Post #62 "You can see Gene's print from original films - and the 9 color palatte on the apron. It was Gene's screener that screened the white layer as a creme (as I was told by Gene AND Kim) "
Post #51 (photo showing IPB repro from original Bally films, with 9-color palatte shown on apron)
Post #42 (Gatecrasher's even better IPB repro photo, with 9-color palatte shown on apron)

When you keep repeating 9 colors... But people don't know the colors... So saying 9 over and over means nothing to clarifying for people.

And you say 'one color under the plastics' but we talked about a base and colors... So did one color mean one color on top of a base or just one at all...

I'm just trying to point out how you can be talking and seem like you are repeating yourself but still not connecting with the reader because of assumptions in language, etc. take it or leave it... No loss

#108 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I'm just trying to point out how you can be talking and seem like you are repeating yourself but still not connecting with the reader because of assumptions in language, etc.

I'm not sure how much clearer he could make it. He even included reference photos!

What I can't believe is how hard Gatecrasher kept arguing in the face of incontrovertible evidence that he was 100% wrong. I guess it helps me understand creationists and climate-change deniers a little more.

This stuff is *so basic*. You get a white layer on the bottom and everything is printed on that. There's 9 total screens for EBD, one of which is white and none of the other 8 are creme. How much simpler does it need to be?

#109 4 years ago
Quoted from KevinCPR:

The claim that "the white of the pool balls and banner flags is slightly brighter than under the plastics - proving there are two different colors" may appear that way on some EBD's and trick your eye into thinking they started that way.
But they started the same white.
The later differences have to do with exposure differences. Under plastics, the white "bakes" from the light/heat of the bulbs. Out on the playfield surface, the white doesn't. GI bulbs can not only deepen the ink/lacquer under plastics, but sometimes (and we have all seen this on some games) around the bulb holes the white bakes to a extreme orange/brown "cooked ring". Don't forget that tungsten filaments (yes - little 44 and 47 bulbs) DO produce UV. Even your average 500 watt work-lights sold at Home Depot and Wal-Mart come with UV-glass faces, and warning stickers nowadays.
All those white GI areas CAN and WILL yellow MORE than white out on the general playfield. The laquer and ink reacts worse to heat/light from the bulbs (accelerated), than just "general light" through the playfield glass.
9 colors on EBD. No more, no less.
I banged on this fact ad nauseum. Maybe you didn't see those posts way up above:
Post #84 "Remember - the IPB (original film) 9-color print confirms there is *no additional spot color for a creme*... So either it's ALL white, or it's ALL cream. Pool balls = slingshot areas."
Post #81 "We can see the 9 color pallate on IPB's repro's (on the apron). There is only one color for whatever is under the plastics (GI areas) and the white areas of the pool balls, etc."
Post #62 "You can see Gene's print from original films - and the 9 color palatte on the apron. It was Gene's screener that screened the white layer as a creme (as I was told by Gene AND Kim) "
Post #51 (photo showing IPB repro from original Bally films, with 9-color palatte shown on apron)
Post #42 (Gatecrasher's even better IPB repro photo, with 9-color palatte shown on apron)

The playfield I made that comment on was an unassembled NOS playfield so the exposure would have been the same for all the areas. That was the point I was making. And HEP's playfield has the custard yellow tint to it too in the slingshot areas. It's not pale white. The HEP apron has the slight yellow tint to the creme also. If they turned light yellow over time, it didn't take too long because they were that from day one as far as I can remember.

That is how all of my NOS playfields have been including ones that weren't 30+ years old. I had a few NOS playfields back in the 1980s too. They are not as yellow as the IPB though. I agree with you on that. They are a shade in between the two.

lol

But now to the real question. What's it gonna take to get CPR to put re-runs of the EBD playfields and plastic sets in the que? You know the masses want them no matter what color they are. Now that you have the CNC program and have made them they should be a breeze to crank out.

Just out of curisosity, what has been the biggest selling playfield and plastics set CPR has ever produced? If it wasn't EBD I'd have to believe it was only because of supply rather than demand.

#110 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

This stuff is *so basic*. You get a white layer on the bottom and everything is printed on that. There's 9 total screens for EBD, one of which is white and none of the other 8 are creme. How much simpler does it need to be?

you just made my point... instead of all this round about discussion if you just boiled it down to that, there is little room for someone to misinterpret it. Then it just boils down to 'do you believe the base was white or not'... not all the talk about what is sanded, under lifted paint, what you find under stuff, what happens with layered paint, what yellows in what conditions, photoshopping things to contrast, etc.

It's one of those cases of 'if you are not concise, you tend to introduce more problems'.

For example.. Kevin states in his post showing the Gottlieb playfield "Ink/laquer is protected even if under flippers, and stays white. But elsewhere yellows/browns down:"

Opening the door to the point that if what he says is true, then if something was 'protected' it should stay white... yet we have unboxed NOS playfields that AREN'T white, etc. Which hurts his statements... because he overreached in trying to justify things and in turns opens up more holes.

K.I.S.S. - only one screen covers that area.. and it's the base coat.. which is always white. One line and done.

#111 4 years ago

Yeah Kiss is definitely white.
The two most-popular Bally SS pins from the golden era are Kiss and Eight Ball Deluxe. That's why IPB decided to reproduce both playfields.

Kiss is an iconic and historic rock 'n' roll novelty pin (that also happens to be a decent player for it's time too). It had some cool features like the four pop bumpers and the theme that made it unique. It was also one of the highest-production runs of any SS pin of the era at over 17,000 units. Every arcade had to have one. The fanatical popularity of the band back then almost reached the same level as Beatlemania in the '60s (not quite though). Now every middle-aged (or older) empty-nester/mancave type needs one of the pins.

Eight Ball Deluxe's popularity comes from the fact that it was an advanced machine technologically for it's time and is also one of the most-addictive players ever made. It stood on it's own without the novelty theme. I ought to know, I must have fed a million quarters into EBDs back then. We used to drive miles out of our way just to go to bowling alleys or arcades that had EBD and by comparison ignored every other pin and video game from the era. While a lot of the other kids were getting into Pacman and Defender video games, we were addicted to "Quit talking and start chalking".

It's still my all-time favorite and if my collection ever gets down to one game it will be EBD.

14o22dw.jpg

#113 4 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Yeah Kiss is definitely white

K.I.S.S. as in

Keep It Simple Stupid...

#114 4 years ago

Are those backglasses the same? I can't figure out if I have the "mean guy" or "nice guy" backglass. I don't see any wedding bands.

#115 4 years ago

The back glasses are different, different artwork & different Sizes

#116 4 years ago

I meant to ask whether one is the nice guy and one is the mean guy. They both look the same to me.

#117 4 years ago

I have an EBD playfield, IPB "crème original"
$800.00 OBO
PM offers/pic requests

#118 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

I meant to ask whether one is the nice guy and one is the mean guy. They both look the same to me.

I think it refers to the guy on the sides of the backbox, not the backglass.

#119 4 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I think it refers to the guy on the sides of the backbox, not the backglass.

Ah, thanks. In that case I have the mean guy backbox. No wedding band.

-1
#120 4 years ago

...and just to resurrect the glue bucket...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ever-clearcoat-a-playfield-without-stripping-underside#post-2011160

the HG pictured in this thread still has "white" GI areas. You can see that around some lamps it has baked. So if ANY vintage Bally GI area was going to discolor into cream, this one would have. Even under the plastic posts have turned pink from leeching red from the plastic. Yet no cream tint to GI...just nasty ol white.

#121 4 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

the HG pictured in this thread still has "white" GI areas. You can see that around some lamps it has baked. So if ANY vintage Bally GI area was going to discolor into cream, this one would have. Even under the plastic posts have turned pink from leeching red from the plastic. Yet no cream tint to GI...just nasty ol white.

But you would have to look and see which of the 4 Bally contractors made that playfield.

The white base ink used from LS would often be a different formula than the base used from CCC.

These playfields were not fine art prints. They were commercial vending equipment with plenty of variation from vendor to vendor, batch to batch.

#122 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

But you would have to look and see which of the 4 Bally contractors made that playfield.
The white base ink used from LS would often be a different formula than the base used from CCC.
These playfields were not fine art prints. They were commercial vending equipment with plenty of variation from vendor to vendor, batch to batch.

So one might could even suspect that a screen marked "white" actually had cream squeegeed through it...depending on the manufacturer and if maybe they had a lot of leftover ink from a previous job that was 'white enough'.

#123 4 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

So one might could even suspect that a screen marked "white" actually had cream squeegeed through it...

I highly doubt it. No screenprinter worth anything would allow that large of a difference through. Also, remember that white comes right out of a bucket and doesn't need any mixing - no printer would take a mixed ink as a replacement for white.

As a former commercial screenprinter I assure you, you'd go out of business if you messed with a customer's colours that badly.

#124 4 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

So one might could even suspect that a screen marked "white" actually had cream squeegeed through it...depending on the manufacturer and if maybe they had a lot of leftover ink from a previous job that was 'white enough'.

No way, not even vaguely likely as a scenario. Screening a white base coat is pretty much the most basic thing in the world when it comes to printing, every single color you print over it is going to be affected. No way someone goes "eh, it's lightish, let's just use this instead".

#125 4 years ago

I guess this would be a bad time to ask if Playboy will ever be re-run by CPR .

Also, I'd pre-pay for a CPR EBD and Playboy ... make that any playfield I want that CPR releases creme or non-creme ).

For whatever its worth, I have an NOS Flash Gordon playfield that's yellowed over time. I know for a fact that the "creme" areas of that playfield are white when new. I have some sanding and touch up work to do as the yellowing effect only impacts whites (should say "greatly impacts" whites).

#126 4 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

So one might could even suspect that a screen marked "white" actually had cream squeegeed through it...depending on the manufacturer and if maybe they had a lot of leftover ink from a previous job that was 'white enough'.

No, the white base coat is too important to just thrown any old ink on.

But one white ink may last 30 years and stay white, while another turns into custard yellow.

Of course any ink may react with Bally's Tuff-coat that got screened over everything, after 30 years.

#127 4 years ago

Sigh...OK, if you guys don't want to even play, I'm taking my ball home.

"Screw you guys...I'm goin home!"

)

1 month later
#128 4 years ago

IPB EBD repro pf just sold on epay for $1500+, noooo there's no market for a EBD rerun...
(ducking )

#129 4 years ago

not to mention, over $200 for the plastics!

#130 4 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

IPB EBD repro pf just sold on epay for $1500+, noooo there's no market for a EBD rerun...
(ducking )

There are always a hand full of collectors or restorers that are willing to pay a premium when you just gotta have it. The problem is, CPR has a minimum quantity they need to sell to justify any run, even a re-run. And they also don't appear to want to sit on the majority of a run just to make them available as the buyers decide they need them. Besides, there are plenty of other titles people are patiently waiting for.

The question is if PPS will outsource more playfield runs to enough other vendors to where we see the vendors hungry for a product they know will sell. And, since they are in the parts business, they should be willing to inventory products like playfields to sell at a premium as the need arises. But its all about how they chose to use their financial resources.

5 months later
#131 4 years ago

Wouldn't hesitate ponying up 50% ON THE SPOT to claim a place in the que. Watching the pre-order page Kev and hoping...

#132 4 years ago

Nor would I. My PF is so bad I may just run it through a sander and play it as a white wood.

3 months later
#133 3 years ago

EBD playfield wanted! Put me on the list of the hopeful group

#134 3 years ago

Ditto

#135 3 years ago

I have an overlay version of EBD Playfield if anybody is interested. It is one of the Fabulous Fantasy PFs....Super Nice print already mounted to the wood, just needs a Clear-Coat ( as do ALL overlays )....PM with Offer.....

#136 3 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

I have an overlay version of EBD Playfield if anybody is interested. It is one of the Fabulous Fantasy PFs....Super Nice print already mounted to the wood, just needs a Clear-Coat ( as do ALL overlays )....PM with Offer.....

Already mounted to an EBD playfield?

#137 3 years ago
Quoted from Evets:

Nor would I. My PF is so bad I may just run it through a sander and play it as a white wood.

I had that same thought. I have a shot High Speed playfield as well.

#138 3 years ago

Yes, and it has the Star Rollover already inserted ( Moves Up & Down Freely! )

Quoted from TrainH2o:

Already mounted to an EBD playfield?

Sorry about the 'flash' in the first pic....

EBD_Overlay_1.jpg

EBD_Overlay_2.jpg

EBD_Overlay_3.jpg

EBD_Overlay_4.jpg

EBD_Overlay_5.jpg

#139 3 years ago

Kevin, I would pre-pay in full right now for THREE (3) CPR EBD Playfields even before the production run. Doesn't matter to me if this two or three years down the road. I do not know if this would help the EBD re-run grassroots campaign or not. Nonetheless, stepping up to the plate.

#140 3 years ago

I'm doing some restorations for $500 US this Fall. Not as good as brand new production. But there is serious demand. Like I said earlier I bought a few Illinois Pinball ones years ago, seconds for $500 US each.

#141 3 years ago

Would also go all in on a repro today. Anybody else?

#142 3 years ago

I would also pre-pay up to 50% for a EBD and FG playfields.

#143 3 years ago

Counting 7 EBD requests within the past nine hours.

#144 3 years ago

Count me in for a PF.

I'd gladly put a 50% deposit.

#146 3 years ago
Quoted from pin_wizzard:

Counting 7 EBD requests within the past nine hours.

I guess that I am the one to blame for this (and up to 9 playfields since my post now)

Just happened to come across this thread when searching for EBD.

I am betting that there is still a huge demand for these playfields

But I can understand that CPR is skeptic of doing a re-run since it has been done several times before from what I gather?

I would buy that playfield from you stu, if you also clearcoat it for me I do not have the skills or tools to do that myself, unfortunately

#147 3 years ago

Neither do I....but there are a lot of people out there that it could be shipped to for clear-coat......

Quoted from karl:

I would buy that playfield from you stu, if you also clearcoat it for me I do not have the skills or tools to do that myself, unfortunately

#148 3 years ago

I'm in for 2 EBD playfields if they get produced

#149 3 years ago

I can buy four of them. I like to work restoring EBDs
Here you can see some of the machines that were in my workshop during the past years
www.facebook.com/pinballmaniallc

Robert Urbanowicz

#150 3 years ago

Getting back to this thread after a year......... I am STILL LOOKING for a new EBD Playfield!! EBD is the most special 80's game ever made.

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