(Topic ID: 100355)

Will CPR run Eight Ball Deluxe playfields?


By cdnpinballer

5 years ago



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  • 201 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by vid1900
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There are 201 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
#1 5 years ago

Anyone know if this might happen? Plastics and backglass were done so hopefully playfields too?

#2 5 years ago

I really hope so. I'd be in for one in a heartbeat.

*edit* Current list of people in for one:
1. cdnpinballer
2. Collin
3. CRWgxp
4. Steve-O
5. NicToria
6. RossZ (2?)
7. LoveF2K
8. DoTheDoo
9. maglar
10. BobLangelius
11. Evets
12. Vid (2?)
13. TrainH20
14. Leisure (1-4)
15. Gatecrasher (2+)

#3 5 years ago

I would be in as well.

-1
#4 5 years ago

I think they might be within a year at least the playfields.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from cdnpinballer:

Anyone know if this might happen? Plastics and backglass were done so hopefully playfields too?

CPR did it few years ago. I have one for my machine...Just haven't gotten to it yet. Actually bought it before I found the game.

#6 5 years ago

I'm in as well. I've got one with a rough playfield & want to bring her back.
~Steveo

2012-02-23_13-44-46_728.jpg
#7 5 years ago

When there is a big enough demand for the PF we will re-run it......

#8 5 years ago

Is the pf exactly the same in all three EBD iterations (1981 original / 1982 LE / 1984) or are they drilled differently, considering the switch over to light boards and whatever other changes there may have been?

#9 5 years ago

Minor differences in artwork (text) and the use of lamp boards as you mentioned are the only differences I know of.

#10 5 years ago

I have an overlay on mine. EBD LE. I would be interested also...

. Keep us in mind Stu.-CPR

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

When there is a big enough demand for the PF we will re-run it......

There are 5, just on Pinside, already. Current list of people in for one:
1. cdnpinballer
2. Collin
3. CRWgxp
4. Steve-O
5. NicToria

Wasn't the last Centaur run just like 8 or 10 playfields? Looks like we could be most of the way to an EBD run!

#12 5 years ago

Any chance eight ball will be run again? I need it and supersonic which I would bet would never be run!

#13 5 years ago

I'm in for 1! With plastics.

Maybe even for 2 playfields as my father has an EBD too.

#14 5 years ago

That's 5 out of the 100 that we need to sell to break even ( no profit )....so let's see 100 more people and we might start to consider it......

Quoted from Collin:

There are 5, just on Pinside, already. Current list of people in for one.... Looks like we could be most of the way to an EBD run!

No, it wasn't......

Quoted from Collin:

Wasn't the last Centaur run just like 8 or 10 playfields?

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

That's 5 out of the 100 that we need to sell to break even ( no profit )....so let's see 100 more people and we might start to consider it......

No, it wasn't......

The last run of Centaurs was to test the new CNC machine. I would be in for another EBD pf so make that 6.

#16 5 years ago

more plastics too!

#17 5 years ago

Actually, the last 30/20 Xenon/Fathom pf's was the Test Pilot for our new CNC machine ( not centaur )....

Quoted from Lovef2k:

The last run of Centaurs was to test the new CNC machine

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

There are 5, just on Pinside, already.

Guys,

A typical/minimum CPR run is ~100 boards to even consider a re-run (or run in general). There would be a loooong way to go for EBD. The hobby is saturated with them from years past. IPB alone ran nearly 500 of them back in 2003 and 2006 combined. They were the ones with the "colored checkerboard" on the aprons, and lingered on Ebay for up until 2 years ago, from usually 4-6 random sellers simultaneously at $400-$450 B.I.N. prices and would sit there for months with no bids. They still often pop up from time to time.

Quoted from Collin:

Wasn't the last Centaur run just like 8 or 10 playfields?

It was 20, actually. Those recent Centaurs were part of a set of trial runs (like sea trials for a new ship) on a new CNC machine we were putting into operation. The trials took place through winter/spring of 2014. Mike and the boyz had to learn new languages, tool changer programming, a new controller, setup & layout, etc. They chose a few playfields where we happened to have leftover baggies of insert kits from years ago. Some Fathoms and Xenons were also done. Around 30 each. Meanwhile, our original CNC kept doing runs of 100+ in another room, as we were bringing this new/replacement machine online. So in essence, those trial playfields were not re-runs. They were no-risk sink-or-swim material to trial the machinery to our satisfaction, and THEN the machine would be internally green-lighted to take on runs of 100+. (as of course, it is now) EBD could have been one of those three trials, but we had no leftover inserts for EBD.

PS: still have 2 Xenons left of that 30.... so..... what does that indicate? Last time Xenon was run was 200 in 2008 ! Can't even move an additional 30 in 2014. Yikes.

KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

Actually, the last 30/20 Xenon/Fathom pf's was the Test Pilot for our new CNC machine ( not centaur )....

ok, my bad.I thought it was the Centaurs as well.

#20 5 years ago

I'm in for a playfield too. PPS mentioned the possibility of making a run of playfields when they acquired IPB. I hope whomever makes the next run uses the original cream color instead of white.

#21 5 years ago

I would be in for a playfield as well. Just picked up a plastic set from Planetary the other day, they still had some sets in stock.

#22 5 years ago

i would be in for one.

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from indy5mike:

Any chance eight ball will be run again? I need it and supersonic which I would bet would never be run!

PM sent

#24 5 years ago

I'm in desperate need of an EBD PF as well.

Steve

#25 5 years ago

Looks like we are at 9 now. I'll let Collin update the list.

Post edited by CRWgxp: typo

#26 5 years ago

I'd take at least one, maybe two.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from NicToria:

I have an overlay on mine. EBD LE. I would be interested also...
. Keep us in mind Stu.-CPR

Fyi...if done right the overlays can look great! We recently did a Xenon. Way better than a trashed playfield. And pretty cheap.

#28 5 years ago

FWIW I had people show interest in about 160 sets of BSD plastics. After 5 weeks, I've sold about 100 to "those" people. Anyone who repros parts will tell you the same thing happens to them.

Lots of interest before the stuff is made. Not so much once the stuff is made.

#29 5 years ago

All too True, we get stuck with tons of stuff that people "claimed" they wanted, till it was made available then they scatter as fast as possible....

#30 5 years ago

Same thing happens in anything you sell.

I'd have a batch of 10 puppies, and without fail, one or two people would put deposits down and never come back.

They don't answer their phone, and they never call asking for their deposit back ($200) or asking to apply it to a pup in the next litter.

#31 5 years ago

We've got 12 on the list already!

#32 5 years ago

I would love to have one depending on price, of course.

I would also be up for an overlay, if good ones are still available.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

All too True, we get stuck with tons of stuff that people "claimed" they wanted, till it was made available then they scatter as fast as possible....

Totally understand, and it's true but I'm willing to put up cash right now. I know that's not how CPR does things but in a smaller run where it's questionable the numbers needed will be hit maybe it's an option for you.

2 months later
#34 4 years ago

I'd be tempted -- I don't own the title today, but given how trashed the games are, usually .. money well spent.

#35 4 years ago

I would certainly buy one. I know three other people in Seattle that would want one as well.

#36 4 years ago

There's still more of a demand for Eight Ball Deluxe playfields than some of the "turkeys" I've seen that have been reproduced since. All the distributors I deal with say the same thing. And people are screaming for EBD plastics sets. I've seen some go for $250+.

Even though I have two EBD playfields right now I'd still buy at least two more if they were available. More if I have the money laying around when they become available. When IPB produced them I purchased 8 in one shot. There isn't another title that has ever been made that I would buy that many of other than EBD. I tried to buy that many from CPR but could only get them to sell me the one that I pre-ordered. I bought two more CPRs from Marco later.

The IPB playfields you saw lingering on eBay for cheap were rejects. That's why they were around as long as they were. When I purchased my 8 from IPB I rejected 2-3 of them for various flaws. IPB replaced them for me and I assume sold the rejects they accumulated to someone else as seconds.

#37 4 years ago

I'd buy one too. Too much product was available during the last run and I had to make a choice. Now I have glass and plastics....just need a playfield.

#38 4 years ago

+1

#39 4 years ago

+100
Ten Thousand by Christmas
If no pictures then it didn't happen
Popcorn Time
I would buy 8
I would love to have one "Depending on Price"

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

+100
Ten Thousand by Christmas
If no pictures then it didn't happen
Popcorn Time
I would buy 8
I would love to have one "Depending on Price"

What an Earthshaker of a post.

#41 4 years ago

You can put me on the EBD list

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

+100
Ten Thousand by Christmas
If no pictures then it didn't happen
Popcorn Time
I would buy 8
I would love to have one "Depending on Price"

I still have the IPB receipts.

I purchased 8 EBD playfields on 07-25-2007.

The price was $4938.35 including shipping from Bloomington, IL to Jackson, TN.

I also purchased 6 Kiss playfields a few months earlier for $3,703.36.

Here are my last two EBD playfields (both are what I consider to be "Gold" class are were the best of the ones I purchased).

The CPR playfield is on the left and the IPB is on the right.

0001.jpg

#43 4 years ago

I bought 2 from Gene 3 or 4 years back at a show. They were seconds & were $500 US each.

#44 4 years ago

Love the creme on the IPB. I hope the next run is done like that.

#45 4 years ago

put me down for a cpr EBD playfield including plastics and BG if they are going to be reproduced again

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

+100
Ten Thousand by Christmas
If no pictures then it didn't happen
Popcorn Time
I would buy 8
I would love to have one "Depending on Price"

If you're trying to comment that people are dogpiling here in hopes of getting you to "senselessly" reproduce a playfield that no one actually wants, you're sorely mistaken. People want this playfield. Deal with it (by running them again.)

#47 4 years ago

Nope, not at all....My point was this: We know that people want these, they us all the time, actually kind of sick of hearing about it. It's not like we can just go out & make a run of these just because a few people raise their hand and say I want it. Making a PF is months in the making. Depending on our order it can take 5-11 months just to get the Inserts and that's IF we place the order that day...If we just placed a $40K order for Inserts a month ago for the next 7 Titles then I guarantee we wont be placing another order until the majority of those titles have been produce and sold. Right now we currently have Inserts "in-stock" for the next 16-18 PF Titles, so people need to understand that screaming about a specific title on a forum isn't doing anybody any good......Deal with it.

Quoted from Collin:

If you're trying to comment that people are dogpiling here in hopes of getting you to "senselessly" reproduce a playfield that no one actually wants, you're sorely mistaken. People want this playfield. Deal with it (by running them again.)

#48 4 years ago

Guys,

I would direct you all back to my post (#18) in this thread. Nobody seemed to get the underlying message on that one...I'll try to expand on it a little more this time.

I was going to come back to this thread a month ago - just to write a "monument post" to acknowledge (and could forever be linked back to) how this always goes down. Just so it won't happen again. I never did, so I guess this post will have to suffice.

Two months ago this thread started, and I knew (like clockwork) how it was going to go. It goes like it always does. Names would begin to be collected, there would be an inital rush of a handful of people (see: "There are 5, just on PinSide, already!")... then a week or two would go by, growing the list to a final 12 (see: "We've got 12 on the list already!")... then... dead silence... and the thread dies. Crickets.

This is the thing, guys... these re-run hopes are not what they seem. Yes, a few people would love to see certain playfields released again. But I can't risk the time, the float, and the materials
to make 50 (baaaare minimum) to 100 (true sweet spot) to warrant a re-run. Why? Because 50-100 won't sell. That's reality right now with EBD.

What would happen is 50-100 go up for grabs, done and clearcoated, ready to go... and 20 will sell. CPR is left holding the bag on 30-80 playfields that just sit here, damming up a ton of float that won't budge. Believe me, I'd love to make a couple dozen people happy, but I can't at the expense of tying up a run cycle with a playfield that will not sell out (or near sell out).

NOW THE BAD-ISH NEWS

Truth be told, as of 2014 (start of this year) something serious is happening/changing in the hobby. For 9 years prior, every playfield run we did sold out to none left (except Cyclone & PinBot because we tried an experiment to make double the number of preorders to see what it was like to have stock afterwards - big mistake, 4 years later we STILL have a couple dozen of each left in stock). But beyond those two, every other run sold out in 1-5 months and we could move on, with the Preorder/Request Group having a 95%+ reliability rate. Meaning, if 100 guys had their name in the inbox, 95 bought....

As of 2014, all this years' main runs (not counting the Q1 CNC test-runs of Centaur, Xenon, and Fathom) such as Strikes & Spares, FIRE, and now Star Trek have had a Preorder/Request response rate of around 60% !!! These are new releases, folks. First stab at the hobby, ever. Out of 100 guys, 40 are forfeits or no-shows now. Unheard of 9 years prior. Even Star Trek playfields with custom nacelle LED kits are as "meh" as anything. We're frankly stunned. Barely moving 60 playfields out of 100. It's tipping the books - badly.

Why the sudden shift on these last 3 runs? There is only one thing that has changed in the last year... and (IMHO) millions and millions and millions of dollars in this hobby have suddenly shifted eyes to like 12 new shiny prospects of NIB machines. Just my theory. Original machines have lost their luster suddenly, and the hot thing in pinball is planning bankrolls for huge purchases 1-3 years out. We're feeling it bigtime - and it's changing things around here right now, as Star Trek is the last time we can sustain a 30-40% sitting stock afterwards....

Big changes are coming shortly at CPR - run lengths are being pulled back bigtime, to fit the ACTUAL buying requirements. The Request page is going back to an actual Preorder page - and rules are being put in place for joining the lists. (Full details when changes are launched). But essentially, your email will be a Promise now, and we will be treating it as such - and we equally will owe you a playfield. The old two-way-no-obligation, will soon be a 2-way-promise. Counting heads just doesn't work any more. It's not that simple any more. Before, the counted heads came through. Anyway, we'll leave this part until I get it all posted in the future.

There has been no EBD artwork here since 2009. We borrowed Fabulous Fantasies' overlay silkscreen films (hand cut/drawn by Marti Sperling) back in 2009. They had to be returned. We'd never use them again anyway, as we never completely liked the alignment to the inserts. Even in it's best orientation, there were still non-fits to many playfield features. It was "OK" but not typical CPR results for alignment. PPS most likely has factory films, so we'd be going that route anyway if we had the ~100 names (which would take years to collect - and they'd have to be Promises under the coming new system, for example). That's what it would take for EBD to boot a new release off the CNC. 100+ people, locked in.

As for some liking the "creme" - please know CPR will never run an intentionally aged/antiqued looking playfield. EBD was never "creme" on the playfield. No Bally playfield (or any I can think of from any brand) ever had the base layer done in anything but pure white. All areas under plastics (and the first ink layer down on the wood) has always always always been white. What folks are seeing as "creme" is yellowed/aged white. The reason IPB repros look that way is because Gene gave the screen printers a 25-year-old playfield and said "match these colors"... so they did. NIB back when EBD was released, please trust me that all the areas under the plastics were clean white.

Anyway guys, also know that a re-run bumps a new release down the line another 2-3 months. We've got the next 2-3 years laid out (as Stu said, with all the inserts already here and/or on order to be molded - which takes 5-9 months...plus the wood, inks, and artworks allocated). Sticking in a run from left field can be done from time to time, but it's gotta be a Seller, to take us off course from what playfields we're already doing.

Plastics are relatively easy to re-run, because we can stick them in here and there (and do). We do a new run of plastics every 7-10 days. That's ~40 plastics runs a year. It's no problem for even half of them to be re-runs. And looking at the next couple years, we think they will be. We have a huge back-catalog of nearly 100 different plastics sets CPR has brought from scratch over the last 10 years. So many of them haven't been available in years (and sold out everywhere for ages).

Remember, we did ~30 Xenon playfields in the CNC Trials of Q1 - and it took a ~month to sell 28, and 2 lingered for the longest time...3+ months actually... and they recently just went to Starship Fantasy to sell at York & Expo. The last time we ran Xenon was 2008... and 5 years later we could barely move 30 more.

Maybe one of the other playfield makers can do EBD?

KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

#49 4 years ago

@kevin - good luck with the changes.

Maybe do the kickstarter model - people pledge, and if the minimum is hit in the time-window, everyone switches to 'balance due'. People pledge but don't get hung up if the minimum isn't met.. but once the minimum is hit, everyone is locked into a commitment. Maybe in your case it's like a 50/50... once the minimum is hit, people owe a 50% non-refundable deposit.

With CPR's maturity now, hopefully you have a pretty good model of production timeframes.. so you don't open the pledge/ordering window until you have a solid idea of when product would start shipping.

Maybe you still have the feeler surveys.. but those are just the guestimate phase.. to be followed up by the pledge/order phase.

Wish you luck.. CPR has been an amazing add to the hobby since you guys took the plunge and dove in!

-1
#50 4 years ago
Quoted from KevinCPR:

Guys,
I would direct you all back to my post (#18) in this thread. Nobody seemed to get the underlying message on that one...I'll try to expand on it a little more this time.
I was going to come back to this thread a month ago - just to write a "monument post" to acknowledge (and could forever be linked back to) how this always goes down. Just so it won't happen again. I never did, so I guess this post will have to suffice.
Two months ago this thread started, and I knew (like clockwork) how it was going to go. It goes like it always does. Names would begin to be collected, there would be an inital rush of a handful of people (see: "There are 5, just on PinSide, already!")... then a week or two would go by, growing the list to a final 12 (see: "We've got 12 on the list already!")... then... dead silence... and the thread dies. Crickets.
This is the thing, guys... these re-run hopes are not what they seem. Yes, a few people would love to see certain playfields released again. But I can't risk the time, the float, and the materials
to make 50 (baaaare minimum) to 100 (true sweet spot) to warrant a re-run. Why? Because 50-100 won't sell. That's reality right now with EBD.
What would happen is 50-100 go up for grabs, done and clearcoated, ready to go... and 20 will sell. CPR is left holding the bag on 30-80 playfields that just sit here, damming up a ton of float that won't budge. Believe me, I'd love to make a couple dozen people happy, but I can't at the expense of tying up a run cycle with a playfield that will not sell out (or near sell out).
NOW THE BAD-ISH NEWS
Truth be told, as of 2014 (start of this year) something serious is happening/changing in the hobby. For 9 years prior, every playfield run we did sold out to none left (except Cyclone & PinBot because we tried an experiment to make double the number of preorders to see what it was like to have stock afterwards - big mistake, 4 years later we STILL have a couple dozen of each left in stock). But beyond those two, every other run sold out in 1-5 months and we could move on, with the Preorder/Request Group having a 95%+ reliability rate. Meaning, if 100 guys had their name in the inbox, 95 bought....
As of 2014, all this years' main runs (not counting the Q1 CNC test-runs of Centaur, Xenon, and Fathom) such as Strikes & Spares, FIRE, and now Star Trek have had a Preorder/Request response rate of around 60% !!! These are new releases, folks. First stab at the hobby, ever. Out of 100 guys, 40 are forfeits or no-shows now. Unheard of 9 years prior. Even Star Trek playfields with custom nacelle LED kits are as "meh" as anything. We're frankly stunned. Barely moving 60 playfields out of 100. It's tipping the books - badly.
Why the sudden shift on these last 3 runs? There is only one thing that has changed in the last year... and (IMHO) millions and millions and millions of dollars in this hobby have suddenly shifted eyes to like 12 new shiny prospects of NIB machines. Just my theory. Original machines have lost their luster suddenly, and the hot thing in pinball is planning bankrolls for huge purchases 1-3 years out. We're feeling it bigtime - and it's changing things around here right now, as Star Trek is the last time we can sustain a 30-40% sitting stock afterwards....
Big changes are coming shortly at CPR - run lengths are being pulled back bigtime, to fit the ACTUAL buying requirements. The Request page is going back to an actual Preorder page - and rules are being put in place for joining the lists. (Full details when changes are launched). But essentially, your email will be a Promise now, and we will be treating it as such - and we equally will owe you a playfield. The old two-way-no-obligation, will soon be a 2-way-promise. Counting heads just doesn't work any more. It's not that simple any more. Before, the counted heads came through. Anyway, we'll leave this part until I get it all posted in the future.
There has been no EBD artwork here since 2009. We borrowed Fabulous Fantasies' overlay silkscreen films (hand cut/drawn by Marti Sperling) back in 2009. They had to be returned. We'd never use them again anyway, as we never completely liked the alignment to the inserts. Even in it's best orientation, there were still non-fits to many playfield features. It was "OK" but not typical CPR results for alignment. PPS most likely has factory films, so we'd be going that route anyway if we had the ~100 names (which would take years to collect - and they'd have to be Promises under the coming new system, for example). That's what it would take for EBD to boot a new release off the CNC. 100+ people, locked in.
As for some liking the "creme" - please know CPR will never run an intentionally aged/antiqued looking playfield. EBD was never "creme" on the playfield. No Bally playfield (or any I can think of from any brand) ever had the base layer done in anything but pure white. All areas under plastics (and the first ink layer down on the wood) has always always always been white. What folks are seeing as "creme" is yellowed/aged white. The reason IPB repros look that way is because Gene gave the screen printers a 25-year-old playfield and said "match these colors"... so they did. NIB back when EBD was released, please trust me that all the areas under the plastics were clean white.
Anyway guys, also know that a re-run bumps a new release down the line another 2-3 months. We've got the next 2-3 years laid out (as Stu said, with all the inserts already here and/or on order to be molded - which takes 5-9 months...plus the wood, inks, and artworks allocated). Sticking in a run from left field can be done from time to time, but it's gotta be a Seller, to take us off course from what playfields we're already doing.
Plastics are relatively easy to re-run, because we can stick them in here and there (and do). We do a new run of plastics every 7-10 days. That's ~40 plastics runs a year. It's no problem for even half of them to be re-runs. And looking at the next couple years, we think they will be. We have a huge back-catalog of nearly 100 different plastics sets CPR has brought from scratch over the last 10 years. So many of them haven't been available in years (and sold out everywhere for ages).
Remember, we did ~30 Xenon playfields in the CNC Trials of Q1 - and it took a ~month to sell 28, and 2 lingered for the longest time...3+ months actually... and they recently just went to Starship Fantasy to sell at York & Expo. The last time we ran Xenon was 2008... and 5 years later we could barely move 30 more.
Maybe one of the other playfield makers can do EBD?
KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

I don't buy what you are claiming on the original colors or your logic for not making more EBD. But you are entitled to your own opinion. I think in the future you may want to do a little more research on your own from more than one source before embarking on expensive projects. I think you'll learn a lot more before you pull the trigger on some of these.

You guys re-ran Fathom. Why not do the same for EBD one of these days?

There were only 3,500 Fathom machines manufactured and it was basically a flop compared to EBD when released. It's a niche' machine by comparison.

EBD is a far more popular title. So much more that it was released three times and there were 13,000+/- made. They probably could have sold more if Midway had wanted to.

Back when you made EBD I requested to buy several playfields from CPR but was refused with the excuse being that you didn't make enough. So I ended up buying two more from Marco. Then they ran out.

I was talking to Marc Mandeltort about this exact lack of EBD parts issue several months ago and he agreed with me. He says he could have sold a ton of everything if he had it in stock and didn't understand why they are no longer available when the demand is still strong. He gets requests all the time.

The bottom line is EBD is the most sought after Bally SS pin from the entire era. It's the most popular and the one everyone wants. All the others you listed in your post are runners up in comparison. That's why EBD was the first machine simulation Amtex did in the 1990s out every pin made. It's also the favorite of resellers because they know it will not be sitting in inventory for long.

I didn't buy all my EBD playfields just to flip. I used most of them in restorations. From the amount of Fathom and other CPR playfields constantly being resold on eBay and on this forum, it looks like a large percentage of people who purchased them did so just to flip them for a profit. You don't see as many EBD playfields being flipped any more. I didn't buy my Star Trek playfield to use right away. I just bought it to get one. I might use it some day and then again I might not. I guarantee you I will be using both of my EBD playfields though.

I have two guys who have been reading this thread PMing me right now wanting to trade me their CPR Fathom playfields (and several others too) for one of my EBD ones. While I wouldn't mind having any of the CPR playfields (they are all nice), I don't want any other title more than EBD and will not trade. Sorry guys.

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