(Topic ID: 213977)

Will changes in Tariffs cause Pinball prices to soar?

By OLDPINGUY

3 years ago


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  • 49 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by benheck
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    There are 84 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 3 years ago

    Tarrifs and a trade war affects everything. As prices go up for any goods, that's less money for other things. It doesn't have to be direct to have impact. On the flip side, those #3 and #4 producers of everything impacted located outside of the tariff countries can finally get their foot in the door and grow into real competitiveness fairly quickly in some cases.

    It took me about 5 trys to avoid saying anything else. Knifes edge topic here for me at least.

    1 week later
    #52 3 years ago

    If this leaked so-called FART Act comes to pass, American industry (including pinball) and consumers (including pinheads) are going to be really, really screwed.

    IMO it has the potential to cause a major recession in the US, and a pretty serious one globally.

    #53 3 years ago
    Quoted from rubberducks:

    IMO it has the potential to cause a major recession in the US...

    We're in line to have one anyway since it's been around 10 years form the last. They seem to be pretty consistent.

    #54 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    We're in line to have one anyway since it's been around 10 years form the last. They seem to be pretty consistent.

    It's cyclical because humans are stupid and don't learn, generally.

    This could be the next big stupid.

    #55 3 years ago

    It appears that FART is designed to allow unilateral tariff control to the President as part of the desire to scrap WTO "rules".
    The sad part, is it appears the "Ace in the hole" comes from the meetings again of China, Russia, NK, Iran and Venezuela, to
    obliterate oil trading in US Petrol dollars.
    This "push back" to current tariffs and opening salvo in a trade war, seems to be possible, and believed would create hyper-inflation throughout the US.
    Thats not good for anyone...let alone pinball.

    #56 3 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    The sad part, is it appears the "Ace in the hole" comes from the meetings again of China, Russia, NK, Iran and Venezuela, to
    obliterate oil trading in US Petrol dollars.

    I think it's most likely grand standing aimed at winning (ignorant) votes in the mid terms, and then 2020 elections, which will hopefully be abandoned before it's done too much damage.

    If what you say is actually the case, and it goes ahead, it's likely to hasten the fall of the Petro$ and its status as the primary reserve currency, since it's likely to wreak absolute havoc on the US economy.

    2 months later
    #57 3 years ago

    doesn't look like things are getting any better. I was actually contemplating buying a couple older titles.... think I'll wait and see how this pans out first.
    I will however stock up on parts, before prices start to increase. running low on several items.

    #58 3 years ago

    Heres the 200 page list of Tariffs....Durable goods are towards the end.

    https://www.scribd.com/document/388885888/US-China-Tariff-List-09-17-18

    Lead time on tariffs and different goods filled will take time to show in market.
    Estimated 10% increase on AGI, for an Average Family. This is a loose statement.

    Lets hope it ends, before it grows, as on topic, Id hate to see another increase in NIB.

    #59 3 years ago

    That is a loose statement. Not sure what the math is based on to get to 10% of average AGI, which would be about $7,000.

    Final target is 25% on $200B, or $50B in total tariff collected.

    There are about 160M tax returns, so that equals $312.50 for each household.

    I don't like tariffs, but these numbers are really small relative to the noise we hear over over them. Am I missing something in my math?

    #60 3 years ago

    There are many models to look at and ones AGI is a wide personal range.
    A family of 3 in Mississippi has an average AGI half of that as someone in the NE.
    In your number, no, it would be much lower percent as AGI increases.
    I should have quantified it more...just tricky as the numbers are all over the place.

    Its why the articles target Walmart Shoppers as being hit first.
    Everything is so globally interconnected, that the increased costs of goods coming in, plus the decreased sales on goods be exported will hit almost everything we buy and use.

    Example the Paper we buy here may be made here, but the chemicals to make, may be overseas.
    An iphone has parts from 25 countries....different affect.

    An LED bulb could increase from 25%-35%, or BOM on a Pinball could increase overall what? 5%-10%? more?

    So any numbers in reading are all over the place, depending also on Political perspective, and Personal
    numbers. In your personal example, it might only be 2%.

    I just know that when I was bidding on National orders, Quality, Price, and Lead time, were insanely integrated with Country and duty. The variances in duty from 0%-6.5%, so I was always shifting production around Asia and Mexico. 25%, is a number that is likely more scary to me than others.

    #61 3 years ago

    Pinside Forums make pinball prices soar.. Someone mentions how great a certain pin is, price goes up a thousand. Someone posts a "Wanted" request, price goes up a thousand.
    Or how this is the best drop target game. Or unsung sleeper, or rare and desirable. Maybe the next big game currently selling at a reasonable price.
    Just went up a thousand, heck,maybe two.
    I like the quote " I could get 10 EM machines for the price of one of those". Not anymore, Ems are now highly desirable and a thousand dollars has been added to their price.

    7 months later
    #62 2 years ago

    Any new thoughts?

    #63 2 years ago

    Give the tariffs to the farmers.

    #64 2 years ago

    Primarily it appears your government placed tariffs on foods, chemicals, adhesives, plastics and rubber, metals, leather, machineary etc... nothing specific like 'coils' or 'Homepin pinball machines'. It's the little things that are used to make the finished goods in machines like plastics, rubber rings etc... Those 'bulk' materials are finished into pinball goods in the US.

    It looks like costs to machines will be impacted if this lasts much longer. It takes 3 weeks for materials to land in North America from China, and the new 25% tariff would only effect items shipped after last Friday.

    Your government has also placed tariffs on aluminum and steel from Canada which should also be concerning considering that most machine rails ramps are make from aluminum...

    https://amp.businessinsider.com/trump-china-trade-war-list-of-goods-tariffs-2018-9

    #65 2 years ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    Give the tariffs to the farmers.

    DOn't worry, all US taxpayers will be sending plenty of money to farmers affected to offset the painful effects of the dueling tariffs, as we already have been.

    #66 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    DOn't worry, all US taxpayers will be sending plenty of money to farmers affected to offset the painful effects of the dueling tariffs, as we already have been.

    12 Billion, at last count.

    #67 2 years ago
    Quoted from davidlldennis:

    Primarily it appears your government placed tariffs on foods, chemicals, adhesives, plastics and rubber, metals, leather, machineary etc... nothing specific like 'coils' or 'Homepin pinball machines'. It's the little things that are used to make the finished goods in machines like plastics, rubber rings etc... Those 'bulk' materials are finished into pinball goods in the US.
    It looks like costs to machines will be impacted if this lasts much longer. It takes 3 weeks for materials to land in North America from China, and the new 25% tariff would only effect items shipped after last Friday.
    Your government has also placed tariffs on aluminum and steel from Canada which should also be concerning considering that most machine rails ramps are make from aluminum...
    https://amp.businessinsider.com/trump-china-trade-war-list-of-goods-tariffs-2018-9

    resistors, capacitors, transistors and stuff like that is on the list. Integrated circuits are not on the list best I can tell. Blank circuit boards are not on the list, but equipment to make circuit boards is.

    Untitled (resized).png

    I wouldn't be surprised if this goes on too long that component manufacturers start moving production to India or other Asian countries.

    #68 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    No Art, tax cuts are going to lower the cost of pinball machines.
    And the idea of tariffs sticking are a joke. It's just part of the negotiating process. The reason its a bit shocking is that our government and politicians, left and right are F ing idiots, past and present, and are now getting schooled on how not to keep giving away the country.

    Yes, I agree. while anything that goes to China is taxed at 100%, the idea we would charge 25% for items coming into the USA is outrageous.

    whoops just lost my chinese visa, and probaby my wechat account.

    #69 2 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    resistors, capacitors, transistors and stuff like that is on the
    list. Integrated circuits are not on the list best I can tell.
    Blank circuit boards are not on the list, but equipment to make
    circuit boards is.
    [quoted image]
    I wouldn't be surprised if this goes on too long that component
    manufacturers start moving production to India or other Asian
    countries.

    They are, though not to any great extent - the economies of scale that China has in this area are just too great. I think Taiwan is the main beneficiary. But the commotion about spying is likely to be a greater driver than tariffs. Supermicro just announced they were moving a major factory to Taiwan due to concerns about firmware security (not tariffs).

    Meanwhile, despite the tariffs (I would actually argue partly because of), the US' trade deficit with China continues to balloon.

    #70 2 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    resistors, capacitors, transistors and stuff like that is on the list. Integrated circuits are not on the list best I can tell. Blank circuit boards are not on the list, but equipment to make circuit boards is.

    My most recent PCA order had a 10% fee which was applied to the order total. In that case it effectively applied to all the parts, the blank PCBs, and the labor.

    1 year later
    #71 11 months ago

    Yesterday (11-10-2020) was a very sad day for european pinball buyers :

    The european government commission have set at now a 25% duty (tariffs) for many US goods, pinballs are included, too!

    See here for explanation:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-09/eu-gives-green-light-to-trigger-4-billion-tariff-strike-on-u-s

    All distributors / shops must pay now 25% extra duty for new imported pinballs, that is a huge step!

    And the customers have to pay higher prices, surly they rising in the next days and weeks.

    #72 11 months ago

    Wow, that sucks.

    I thought it was bad here in Canada, just paying the exchange and taxes.
    I wouldn't be buying any games there new, that's for sure.

    #73 11 months ago

    Maybe it's possible these tarrifs will be rolled back on both sides early next year.

    These seem to be terrible for US companies and consumers across the globe.

    #74 11 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Maybe it's possible these tarrifs will be rolled back on both sides early next year.
    These seem to be terrible for US companies and consumers across the globe.

    Only if the US stops dicking around and actually starts to negotiate international trade

    #75 11 months ago
    Quoted from DerRoland:

    Yesterday (11-10-2020) was a very sad day for european pinball buyers :
    The european goverment have set at now a 25% duty (tariffs) for many US goods, pinballs are included, too!
    See here for explanation:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-09/eu-gives-green-light-to-trigger-4-billion-tariff-strike-on-u-s
    All distributors / shops must pay now 25% extra duty for new imported pinballs, that is a huge step!
    And the customers have to pay higher prices, surly they rising in the next days and weeks.

    25% doesn't necessary apply to all products. This is the original tariff:
    https://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm?productCode=9504301000&country=US
    pasted_image (resized).png

    However, looks like it's been annexed:
    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32020R1646&from=EN

    25% tariff indeed

    #76 11 months ago
    Quoted from DerRoland:

    Yesterday (11-10-2020) was a very sad day for european pinball buyers :
    The european goverment have set at now a 25% duty (tariffs) for many US goods, pinballs are included, too!
    See here for explanation:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-09/eu-gives-green-light-to-trigger-4-billion-tariff-strike-on-u-s
    All distributors / shops must pay now 25% extra duty for new imported pinballs, that is a huge step!
    And the customers have to pay higher prices, surly they rising in the next days and weeks.

    Hoping this gets resolved by some in good faith negotiations. Wish we would have noticed this when the EU published the list (many months ago) as among those being threatened...

    #77 11 months ago

    Tariffs are typically imposed to protect a domestic industry affected by unfair practices by a foreign company. What exactly is the EU protecting by imposing tariffs on pinball machines? Both sides will be hurt by this, makes little sense.

    #78 11 months ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    Tariffs are typically imposed to protect a domestic industry affected by unfair practices by a foreign company. What exactly is the EU protecting by imposing tariffs on pinball machines? Both sides will be hurt by this, makes little sense.

    The new EU tariff is in retaliation to the US giving unfair government subsidies to Boeing, which hurt Airbus in the EU. The US imposed a 25% tariff on some EU items like certain alcoholic beverages, with threats to go to a 100% tariff on those items. The new 25% EU tariff is just another escalation in the overall war. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-09/eu-gives-green-light-to-trigger-4-billion-tariff-strike-on-u-s

    #79 11 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    The new EU tariff is in retaliation to the US giving unfair government subsidies to Boeing, which hurt Airbus in the EU. The US imposed a 25% tariff on some EU items like certain alcoholic beverages, with threats to go to a 100% tariff on those items. The new 25% EU tariff is just another escalation in the overall war. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-09/eu-gives-green-light-to-trigger-4-billion-tariff-strike-on-u-s

    The article said this tif has been going on for 16 years. Wasn’t the original issue from the US that Airbus is partially owned by the French government and thus able to unfairly subsidize them? Is that still the case? With Boeing able to get huge loans right now at near zero interest I don’t know that there’s much of a difference.

    Either way, the EU side said they will cancel theirs if the US cancels theirs, so it might have a simple way to end the whole issue.

    #80 11 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    The new EU tariff is in retaliation to the US giving unfair government subsidies to Boeing, which hurt Airbus in the EU. The US imposed a 25% tariff on some EU items like certain alcoholic beverages, with threats to go to a 100% tariff on those items. The new 25% EU tariff is just another escalation in the overall war. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-09/eu-gives-green-light-to-trigger-4-billion-tariff-strike-on-u-s

    I know why they did it, but it makes no sense to hit gaming since it doesn’t level the playfield (no pun intended). It hurts both EU consumers and US producers. Alcohol is made in both countries so a tariff imposed by the EU favors EU alcohol producers,

    #81 11 months ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    The article said this tif has been going on for 16 years. Wasn’t the original issue from the US that Airbus is partially owned by the French government and thus able to unfairly subsidize them? Is that still the case? With Boeing able to get huge loans right now at near zero interest I don’t know that there’s much of a difference.
    Either way, the EU side said they will cancel theirs if the US cancels theirs, so it might have a simple way to end the whole issue.

    Doubt anything happens on the US side until the administration changes over unless stern/jjp/Cgc/etc. and billiards and other gaming manufacturers can get their representatives to make some noise.

    #82 11 months ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    I know why they did it, but it makes no sense to hit gaming since it doesn’t level the playfield (no pun intended). It hurts both EU consumers and US producers. Alcohol is made in both countries so a tariff imposed by the EU favors EU alcohol producers,

    I wonder if this was a sly way to hit gambling-machine companies?

    #83 11 months ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    I wonder if this was a sly way to hit gambling-machine companies?

    Don't know, but it's going to wreak havoc on pinball in the EU. All those people who ordered a GNR in the EU might now have to pay an extra 25%.

    #84 11 months ago

    Maybe Dutch Pinball has a REALLY strong lobbying arm?

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