how would customs even know what solder was used?

Yes, there is a problem with customs and BBB's going to Europe… these guys from France came over and bought a NIB BBB from me and disassembled as much as they could before shipping it over. The rest they took with them in backpacks and gym bags. They didn't speak much English so I couldn't be sure of the exact problem…

http://s300.photobucket.com/user/teekee_2008/library/BBB?sort=6&page=1

It's not exteme, its absurd.

It is their job to enforce import laws (see article copied below, as published by The Ames Library). An individual may be able to slip a small package past them (they don't open everything). But who would risk trying to pass a complete assembled pinball machine whose production date suggests it probably contains the banned solder?

Composed of lead and tin, traditional solder is widely used in the electronics industry because as it heats up, it will suddenly melt. This is in sharp contrast to many metals that undergo a slow transition from solid to liquid. A solder blend of 63 percent tin and 37 percent lead acts like a pure metal with a single melting and solidification point. In addition, tin-lead solder is able to wet and adhere to both surfaces it is attaching, and once hardened, it conducts electricity efficiently and stands up to long-term use. Despite these abilities, lead has long been recognized as a highly toxic material that can cause brain damage. Its use in paint was banned in 1978, and it was later removed from gasoline. With these concerns in mind, in 2006, the European Union put strict limits on the amount of lead permitted in electronic devices sold there. Given the global nature of the electronics industry, the EU ban is in essence international in scope. Estimates cited by the EPA show that American companies could forfeit $240 billion in sales of electronic components over a three-year period if the nation does not continue its development of lead-free solder alternatives that meet environmental regulations imposed by the EU and other governing bodies.

Nice job on the caption there, Teekee.

Lol, between my French and their English it was a challenge… very interesting to watch though. I could hardly believe what I was seeing!

I wonder how many people signed up the first hour thinking that it would rise in price like the original MM? Why were people that bought MMR LEs upset when it was announced that basically there would be unlimited amounts of MMRs made? Why does anybody care if Teekee thinks a MMR is inferior to an original MM when they are buying it because all they wanted was a MM?

The answers are simple- people that are buying MMR do not want them to depreciate anymore than people that own the original want them to depreciate. Ironically, instead of being sympathetic to original MM owners losing value on their pins, many MMR owners seem to relish it. Instead of admitting prices are set because of supply and demand, owners are demonized as hoarders, speculators, or people that resemble the Monopoly guy. No way could they have saved to buy one, or for God's sake actually like it.

Maybe saying people are buying it to flip it is at 50%, is way off. I should have said, people buying MMR thinking it will appreciate like MM in the future is about 50% or higher. If that is the case, wouldn't they be better off if the original MM retained a lot of value? If it did, it would help the appreciation of their MMR machine as it is going to a close or a better facsimile. That is the part I don't get.

Clearly there are only two solutions. All pins must be valued exactly the same, and all people will share all pins for equal amounts of time. Or we must destroy all pins.

Or we could just let people decide individually what to pay for or sell them for..... Nah, that will never work.

i think your analysis is way off. people were excited to buy MMRLE because it was a pin they wanted to own but couldn't afford, and now they could. i honestly do not think buyers of brand new pins expect them to appreciate in value. at least i hope not because they are in for a rude awakening if so. i can only speak for myself but i don't expect a used pin to be worth more than a new one any more than i expect my car to sell for more than i paid for it.

you and others keep acting like i'm jealous of MM or BBB owners, or relish their loss. that's inaccurate. i simply don't care. i want the option to buy cool pins, that's it. speculators and those against the remakes just want the supply to stay low -- that's my only beef with them. are people remaking games in it for the money? sure, but they're doing it by providing a service i desire. it ain't personal.

I apologize then.

All of the Bally games when they bought the company

I really love them both, but I agree, I'd take Kingpin over BBB.

I thought BBB and Kingpin were easily the best two games to come out of Capcom. Had they started with those I think they would have been in business longer but no matter what that place would have been destined to close most likely due to how the coin-op market and the pinball market in general shrunk to almost nothing.

My personal opinions of the two games:

BBB is a very good looking game. Great art package, cool theme, pretty good game layout. I don't think it is a great game but it is a very good game. I think it would have been a B+ title currently had that game seen regular production. I think the game gets elevated by its rarity and legend. WMS should have made this game instead of Cactus Canyon (a game that people only care about now because its rarity elevated it into some sort of legend but as a game it really wasn't that good and it didn't earn at all, let alone sell in the timely manner they hoped when they made the small run). I think it was very cool that BBB got the remake by Gene which from what I heard wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the people who he took advantage of to get the project completed. It was a shame they couldn't have made more than the small number they did but at least there's some of them out there.

Kingpin, from my memory, was easily the best pin Capcom did and it was a real crime it didn't see production. When they first put it out on test it was a timed game and that sucked. When they switched it back to a standard 3 ball game it was the only non-WMS game I remember playing on test that I really liked and wanted to play regularly. If I had to vote for one game in history to get remade it would be this one because that would remedy the crime that was this game not going to production before the company closed down. I can't afford to buy new pins but if this came out I'm sure someone I know would buy one which means I'd be able to play it again

In the TOPcast interview, Python takes full credit for virtually every design aspect of this game. Even the invention of the tube dancer.

He said that Rob Morrison was never around and was always busy getting drunk, but got credit for the design.

"Rob Morrison couldn't design his way out of a paper bag!" ~ Python

One of my favorite TOPcast interviews!

I think the reason was the ROHS law, which doesn't allow importing new electronic machines with lead soldering in it. As the boards were made in 1996, the all had lead in it. So the guys were afraid, that they could not import to Europe.

This was also the reason why the first BBB remakes were shipped to Europe and the rest was delivered within US afterwards.

Brgds
Norbert

These guys speak enough English to call themselves "Mad in Black"
Their Quest for a Holy BBB grail is described here (sorry, in French, but plenty of pictures...)
http://pinballcrazy.over-blog.net/article-mib-nib-bbb-huo-obo-41721916.html

...and I am not one of them... sadly

In Fringlish:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://pinballcrazy.over-blog.net/article-mib-nib-bbb-huo-obo-41721916.html&usg=ALkJrhjwbcEBs0wam9sQCj7lAzMcjZqDMg

Kingpin would be the game for me.

Kingpin would be neat to have but, in my opinion, PMI made the better one of the two.

Lots of wild ideas and new innovation were put into BBB, especially for 1996.

Besides, BBB uses an actual porn sample. How cool is that?

Kingpin however, is just another re-themed Mark Ritchie criss-cross ramp game.

Didn't do much for me when I played it, but I would buy one just because I'm trapped in the 1940's.

How many BBB's still exist? Didn't some get lost in a fire?

One of the protos was lost in a fire. None of the production BBB were lost that I've heard. So to answer your question 13 protos and 191 production models.

No one knows for sure. I've heard three different numbers from the head of the design team. One BBB and one KP were lost in a fire.

I've only been able to account for 8 of the Capcom made prototypes.

And with what was going on at Capcom, no one there knew for sure either.

LTG : )™

does that include the non numbered ones that were pieced together after the initial run was shipped out? There was something like, 11 more made beyond the numbered ones.

Before long there will be a lot more for sale. Ed

Actually, it was a 7 day auction. It was discussed in the biggest german forum so it took a lot of attention. But there are not a lot of people out there who are willing to spend that big money for a single machine.

Krgds
Norbert

Why do you say this?

He has no idea...

Wishful thinking

He is bored maybe? Wanted to stir up some more?

Yes, once they hit 30 grand I think you'll see more come up for sale..

More? they are up for sale all the time already. It's not like it's hard to find a BBB if you want to shell out the cash. Not a rare sight by any means.

The parts are harder to find than the machines.

There were a lot of rare BBB parts that ended on eBay recently that went for big bucks!

This pin is not even fun to play. Never understood why you would want this when there are so many other pins that are way more fun.

I think you get bored within a week of full playing.

BBB is a fun and sexy game. I bought the IPB re-make in 04-05' Loved it! I sold it last year cuz I needed the $$$ for a new car. My wife stepped in and pressed the issue "to lighten my toy box" to fund the car. I'm still really bummed to have sold it. I would be right back in at BBB with prices of today for MMr / TH / WOZLE / ST-LE / METLE etc.

What will that car be worth in 10 years compared to the BBB?

It may not even be driveable in 10 years!

You lucked out. But try importing to Europe a complete BBB game and see if that gets by customs?

That depends on if BBB gets remade in much bigger quantities by someone like PPS. The value of the relatively few BBB games that currently exist can only go up if there are no other remakes of it.

Those who preordered BBB were also given the chance to preorder some unique spare parts for it. I purchased $500 in spare parts including a spare ramp, plastic set, a couple extra sets of the target decals, an extra tube dancer figure, an alternate pink tube dancer figure with blonde hair, the optional plastic rings that mount around the left side tube, and a couple other things (that was more than five years ago and I can't remember everything). I didn't feel the need to buy a spare playfield for a game that would be HUO in a collection of 15 pins. If I were to ever sell my #16 BBB I would probably include the spare parts with the game. Maybe someone sold sold their BBB for a high price and then sold their spare parts separately in order to make even more profit?

I'm thinking of a number between 0 and 2,000 .......

Does this mean people in Europe can't import ANY used pinball machine? New BBBs had to beat the deadline, but they were newly manufactured. RoHS bans ANY used product with lead solder?

And if you wanted to buy a NIB BBB, just slit the tape and reseal it.... it's no longer new!

I didn't want to sell my BBB... my wife insisted for us to get a new car for the family. You are preaching to the choir here.

Fortunately I bought it for $4800 ($4500 + $300 shipping) and sold it for $15,000. That helped a lot.

Family always comes first, and nice little profit wasn't bad either.

I thought anything made before the ban was exempt? Since 1996 is plastered all over BBB, how would they know when it was even made?

They were afraid that the machines where made in 2005 or 2006 (although with parts from 1996) the import to EC will not be possible as the machine itself counts as a new one.

As everywhere, it depends where the goods arrive. Here in Austria i never had any checks for ROHS and i am dealing a lot with customs as i am working in forwarding business.

I also do not think that if a private person is importing something for him privately, anybody will ask for ROHS.

For companies, this could be different.

But again, in other EC countries they may be more strict with that laws.

It appears BBB left TPF in the company of MMR. Makes you wonder.

BBB.jpg