I believe you are well-known and respected in the pinball community (by me included). But, please, leaving BBB NIB for years and then selling it reeks of buy-low-sell-high profit taking, and anything negative said after such a sale reads like sour grapes to cover your choice of money over the rare machine. But you are certainly entitled to state your opinion.

Right because knocking down the values of games is what flippers do??

Well I certainly would have given you that much for yours lol

Knocking the game after he's already sold it and made his profit it won't hurt a flipper, especially with a game like BBB where he isn't very likely to ever have another one to sell.

I really don't think I could get past this. What is it that the annoying Jersey waitress keeps saying anyway? I'm scared? Up stairs? I don't know what it is but it's major annoying and easily the most annoying pin callout I have ever heard.

...the game seems OK though.

PS: Take a shot every time I type annoying.

Yeah, wtf IS she saying? I thought it was "I'm Sam" ....I dunno. She's less annoying than ShittyBeast, though.

what is this "shittybeast" that you speak of?

The worst voice actor to ever grace a pinball machine. Play X-Men.

ahh.. got it. i dont have alot of time in on xmen. have to go play sean's some more.

I always thought it was "Up stairs" - meaning up the ramp.

Have to go listen to it again now more clearly.

A collapse of what? Your pinball resale empire? Seriously, what's the harm? If it has all been gone about through legal avenues with licensing and rights, then it's legit, I believe. Herm Edwards may have said "You play to win the game" several years ago. Pinheads should adhere to the concept of "You buy pinball machines to play the game." If that's not your number one priority, your motivations are wrongheaded in my opinion.

If you make one set for you and only you, no issues. If you make anymore (even if not for profit) then you have a legal issue.

I knew my post would probably ruffle some feathers.

Believe me, I had EVERY intention of opening the game and playing it after I had waited as long as everyone else did. But many things changed in my life during that time. The birth of our first child for one. My priorities changed a LOT after that, as well as my available free time for anything pinball.

So the BBB sat ignored in its box. Weeks turned into months, months into years. By that time I had already played the game elsewhere and gotten my fill. I was made an offer too good to refuse for the BBB so it left. I don't miss it, and don't want it back.

No agenda here. Just my opinion.

$1825 is a mint Firepower or EBD. I'd trade my spare plastics for a mint Firepower or EBD...

Gene decided to sell off the remaining BBB parts back in '07 and not reproduce any of them, for fear of someone buying them up and remaking a BBB like some were able to do with MM.

You can reproduce anything you want for your *personal* pinball machines. However, if you try to sell what you have reproduced is when you run into legal issues.

If you buy a BBB, keep in mind that if anything breaks, it just breaks.

why it s necessary to build BBB again;
makes a kingpin for the world or Pinball Circus and you will be in the pinball history

MM is easy to make ......

Its just not worth trying to explain Economics 101 and how markets work and how they fail... you should have paid more attention in school.

How many times does it have to be said… the pinball market can't handle all these $8000 pins. We are already seeing some of the effects and it hasn't even really begun yet.

Some of you guys are living in a dream land... dozens of new games and remakes and the endless flow of money dancing in your head.

And sadly some of you guys are only hoping for certain remakes because you're jealous and upset that certain pins have reached extremely high values and you missed out… wah-wah! Sorry, we all can't win, get over it!

Have you played BDK?

I think shittybeast is better than Alfred is BDK. We should have a vote with voice clips.

^^^ best way to read any TeeKee post is filtered through dollar signs.

Tony, if you have not realized the majority here dont care about your "market" as more pinball is good. More manufacturers making more games is good! I agree that I wish efforts were put into new technology and new games, but no matter how you look at it, if you love playing pinball and collecting pinball machines, more of any game is a good thing.

People will remake the high value machine if they are able because there is money in it. Any doom and gloom "crash" to the market is really a good thing for the majority of collectors and players. Please let me know when the crash comes so I can stretch my dollar further and get more machines.

So I'm a bad guy because you think my priorities are all about $$$$ yet you're fine when it comes to some making extreme profits from high dollar remakes…

You just don't understand! More manufactures making more and more games is good? And who will buy all these? Where will all this money come from? I can't believe its so hard to understand that this market can't handle more and more $8000 plus pins! If you can't see how the remakes of old pins will hurt the manufacturers like Stern and JJP that are moving forward and trying to bring us new stuff… hopeless…

You know nothing about me and the more I read your responses I'm not sure you know much about anything…

She saying, "See the guys upstairs" and "Upstairs", hinting you to make the ramp shot which then will start a mode. It helps to know that, but I don't find her hardly as annoying as Leo in LW3.

I am well-versed in Econ 101. Thank you very much. It seems as though you might need to freshen up, however, based on your last statement. Remakes just may diminish the value of the originals that you own and cause not a collapse of pinball, but of your investment. And that's what you're worried about. Supply of MM goes up, value of MM goes down.

Remake, refake, whatever you want to call it, original MM's have come down some. You may claim that the original is the only one that counts, and it really doesn't matter what you think, because the market has dictated a slight decline. And they may or may not decline further when the remake is released. I have a sneaking suspicion that they will. After all, it's just Econ 101, isn't it? And it's going to potentially leave someone banking on buying and selling high end machines, like you, to take a haircut. Well, it's just simple supply and demand. And you don't get to make the rules. So, adapt or die. Isn't that the mantra of the free market trumpeters like you? Now you'll get to take your own medicine.

Guys you just dont get it. Teekee you do. Let the markets and numbers of past machines set there own place in history! Leave them alone. The simple fact is there is a semi limited amount of money to be spent on pinball machines in this entire world, sure there maybe a bit more coming however there could be a bit less coming as well! The simple facts are if they keep remaking these old machines because demand is there, this takes huge chunks of that semi limited funds available out of this market which in turn will hurt or even put out of business the manufacturers that are advancing, creating, and giving us new machines now and hopefully well into the future. Leave the past alone. So what if there is a few games that are unobtainable for some, make friends lol. There will be newer and better games coming if we just give the people who are creating these a chance!

You guys don't get it. Many people are in the hobby in part due to the collectibility of these games - they enjoy seeking out and owning rare and desirable games as much as others enjoy fixing, playing and competing. Not everyone cares about this, but enough people with deep pockets do, that if you destroy collectibility by remaking games, you drive that money away from pinball and into other hobbies. If too many folks who can afford 8K NIB games find other places to spend their money, we may not be able to support two or more manufacturers like we are (kinda) now.

Teekee might be a bit of a dick with his delivery, but his hypotheses is sound. The comic book industry flooded the market with "collectible" product.. not remakes, but gobs of "special and limited edition" books, and it eventually killed interest. I think too many pinball remakes could do the same, although the good thing is that pins are much more difficult to manufacture than books.

At some point, you gotta say "there will be no more of this particular game..."

There is such a thing as market saturation or 'peak pinball'. There just aren't an endless number of buyers and an endless supply of cash to buy the new product. I agree that the market can't sustain dozens of new $8K pin titles a year.

You also have to figure in production limitations... producing one particular game necessarily means that fewer other titles can be produced at the same time.

I think it would be great to see BBB or BBB2! Anyone heard anything from Rob Morrison? I know Stan Fukoka always does the calendar art for PinGame Journal so...

When everything is special and limited... Nothing will be special and limited!

+1 I agree with teeke and chad. Flooding the market with overpriced games will eventually have a negative iffect on the hobby. Prices may come down but people may get fed up and leave the hobby all together.

All this pinball stuff is going to decline in value.

Right now we all have this nostalgic love of pinball because we grew up with it.

Sure there are a few 20 year old guys on Pinside, but the majority are much older.

As **our** generation starts to decline in numbers, the next generation will not have our love for the silverball.

Although pinball has had a rise in popularity lately, it is only a tiny blip.

4000 AC/DCs is a lot of games sold, but nothing compared to 20,000 Flash or TAFs, so pinball will remain an old man's game.

That is definitely a possibility. Too many competing hobbies like video games , iPhones and social media. Kids don't care about pinball.

I kinda disagree here as its our responsibility or should I say opportunity to spread what we grew up with. It had to climb the first time when we were kids and yes we too had other "toys" back then to chose from. I have my collection circulate at Nieces and god daughters houses (yes all girls) and they are so into pinball now im thinking they will be lining up for my machines when I am pushing daisies. If they are successful, marry, have kids, perhaps they will be buyers and their kids and so on and so on. This is how anything gets popular again and to begin with. Me myself have probably brought 7 or 8 kids off their video games and to the tables! I really dont think its as cut and dry as we die it goes away! Spread your love!

Well if it's remade I'll buy one! BBB is a cool machine.

I wouldn't say dickish in his delivery of message, just blunt and brutally honest which nothing a grown man couldn't handle. Since I assume everyone here on this forum are big boys, so there should be no problems, right?

And I agree everything else that you stated.

Upstairs - and it's really not that irritating.

Hello Christopher, I'm Nero. Is starting to get on my nerves. Also, X-Men has some goofy ones - "Here's a another baaaaaaallllllll" Magneto, Storm "I am a goddess..........yack yack yack"

Like others, would rather see Kingpin remade. Seems like some pent up demand for this one and I'd rather see titles never production finished than re-runs of titles already out there. Give me Kingpin, WizardBlocks, and work with JPOP to put in production his other games he's designing. That my friend, is the formula for success.

I'm sure we all try to promote pinball wherever we can, but pinball's day is long past.

I used to deploy 5 Gorgars side by side and players would be standing 4 deep behind each of them.

Those days are never going to come back.

Too many other ways kids spend their money these days for entertainment. $70 for cell phone, $10 for Netflix, $5 for Pandora, $7 for Xbox subscription, $4 Candy Crush......

Things go in cycles. At some points kids will get tired of staring at tiny screens and get back to more physical things. Hobbyist electronics is making a bit of a comeback. As long as pinball is produced well and continues to be an art form, there will be those who appreciate it.

So, on one hand I'm hearing that there are too many 8K games for this market. Then I'm hearing that a certain segment of the pinball buying community want the 8K and up games for their snob appeal. And to protect people with money, that the pin market should remain inflated by keeping the numbers low only to satisfy their desires? So, the rest of the hobby has to do their bidding for them? No thanks. That group of pinball "hobbyists" (and I use that term very loosely) might have that sense of entitlement in the rest of their day-to-day lives, but they don't need to be coddled in this hobby.

On the other hand, if you are suggesting that the meteoric rise of pinball prices needs to be reigned back and probably will by market forces, I'm all for that. I guess I'm not 100% sure where you're coming from.

www.Heathkit.com

Why would I put $1 in a pinball machine when that same $1 buys me an app that lasts hours? or more. You can even get a pinball table to play at your leisure as long as you want on your phone for $2.50 . The paradigm is hard to support. Need more pinball on location to support more pinball on location. I recently went to a bar owner and offered 100% of the take and still could not get a machine in. Took up too much space, he has tried pinball before, no one plays it anymore, yada yada. BBB would not be any different

This will be its death regardless of a small resurgence. Cant change that part of it and its the biggest issue.

On topic I think there is some truth to so many dollars. Folks are starting to sell games to pay for Predator. Soon the balance on MMR will be due. More Sterns and JJp on the way plus others. Going to be an interesting year.

Exactly.

A Bar-ber-cut game makes $2000 a week at the local theater, and their pinball machine makes $30.

What are you going to devote your limited space to as the establishment owner?

Maybe Heathkit will bring back their Fireball Pinball Kit ?

Heithkit Fireball Pinball.JPG

heithkit fireball.gif

I doubt a remake will ever happen and if it does Gene wont have his hands in on it. Gene and IPB have seen better days. Just read through this thread

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/illinois-pinballare-they-done/page/9#post-1522286

It will most likely never get rerun and if it does I'd bet not for at least a decade plus before all the dust settles.

Whether you took a gamble back 2003 and put a deposit down or bought afterwards it just goes to show you that hind site is 20/20. Nobody could have guessed at the money these command today. It's a bit of luck really to own one.

I'm not sure if they are totally a remake when some of the toys and mechs have been updated to make them more reliable than the prototypes. Its sort of a hybrid production/remake run of a game maybe.

He also said it would not happen with PPS in this thread:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pps-bbb-remake-list-of-buyers-at-8000

And I want to add that Robert put the BBB forum in place after the Bearcave guys pulled out (that's funny for other reasons). His website was the main communications hub during the entire build process. When I announced the release date, I did it there. Robert was an important part of BBB history and I personally thank him for it.

Is the BBB forum dead ?

Does bar Ber make that much? Might give it a try if so.

So you've never played Baywatch then?

No, I think we get it. We should put the small segment of people with "deep pockets" above everyone else? Call me crazy, but in my opinion $8,000 IS "deep pocket" money.

There are so many problems with your statement. Basically, you are saying all these rich people out there need to be protected or they will leave the hobby. How about all the people who leave the hobby because they can't afford it while we "protect" all these people with deep pockets?

I have to admit, it's a new take on the price situation. High prices for all so we can protect a select few.