(Topic ID: 83959)

Will BBB be remade.... Again!


By Pinhead1982

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 373 posts
  • 89 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Magic_Mike
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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There are 373 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 8.
#1 6 years ago

Guess the big question is will BBB be remade again like MMR. ....BBBR2,

With all the Capcom board sets now used up it will have to be an emulation like MMR.

If a second remake is not on the cards, Will the person who buys the rights from PMI make plastic sets, ramps etc for a run of less than 200 machines?

Does Gene have a load off BBB stuff stashed away like decals, plastic sets, ramps that will be auctioned off by liquidation company?

BBB are coming up for sale, image-490.jpg

#2 6 years ago

It's in chapter 7 could be a long time before anyone can buy the rights and do something

#3 6 years ago

Negative.

10
#4 6 years ago

look forward not back

#5 6 years ago

Just make a new bar themed pinball. It would interest me more than a remake.

-3
#6 6 years ago
Quoted from Shoot_Again:

Just make a new bar themed pinball. It would interest me more than a remake.

Amen! One damn ref... I mean remake is enough! Move forward!

#8 6 years ago

I can't wait until PPS remakes BBB! Bring it on!

#9 6 years ago

From Rick in another thread:

Quoted from PPS:

It's completely designed to support this WPC95 wms type game, and probably could support other similar era games (capcom, etc) without too much energy.

So he specifically mentions Capcom.... I wouldn't want to own a BBB at this time, good odds the (new) remake is coming (eventually).

Obviously there is the little issue of who owns the rights, but where there is a will there's a way.

#10 6 years ago

Coming from someone that doesnt own BBB I think re-making all the high value pins not only would kill the collector market but the new pin market would take a hit also. I wouldn't buy one unless it was under 4K.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from pmWolf:

Would rather see Kingpin made.

That would make much more sense... There's not enough money to support all the new stuff anyway. If remakes continue a collapse is near...

#12 6 years ago

BBBR2 makes even more sense than MMR. If I was PPS that is the #1 thing I would be interested in doing next and getting stuff when IPB is liquidated in the future.

I would actually consider buying a BBBR2 as I have played both an original and BBBR1 and they are super fun with cool animations, unique gameplay, and very funny.

#13 6 years ago

I hope they make it. I'd buy one and the days of 20,000.00 bbb are done. Ed

#14 6 years ago

BBBR2...I'm IN!

#16 6 years ago

BBBR2??? What the heck is that? BBB was never remade and won't be. Capcom built 14 protos and before they could put them into production they went out of business. Gene simply did what Capcom planned to do... put them into production. You don't remake protos.

Have fun dreaming about BBBR...

#17 6 years ago

I wonder how many people were on the list for Kingpin and why it never got built?
image-779.jpg

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I wonder how many people were on the list for Kingpin and why it never got built?

image-779.jpg 67 KB

I was on the list and last time I talked to gene he said is he was not getting help from the Kingpin overs to help recreate the game. That was a few years ago though and now we all know it will not happen

#19 6 years ago

If there is money to made, there is always a possibility....

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

BBBR2??? What the heck is that? BBB was never remade and won't be. Capcom built 14 protos and before they could put them into production they went out of business. Gene simply did what Capcom planned to do... put them into production. You don't remake protos.
Have fun dreaming about BBBR...

Well Gene was not Capcom and hence anything he produced was technically a remake since it had been done before by Capcom. 14 original games are called 'prototypes' but as far as I know are very similar to the remake that IPB made. What Gene did is very similar to what PPS is currently doing. Take an already finished game and remake it to the best of your abilities. What are the main differences besides real boardset vs emulated?

Seems like the same business model and plan and the only differences are the # of original games and the cost of the remake?

There are 14 BBB and then the BBBR that gene made.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

What Gene did is very similar to what PPS is currently doing.

Williams made MM protos. Williams put several thousand into production. PPS is now remaking MM from the production machine but without the name/logos, boardset, harness, etc. major differences.

Gene put BBB into production with the Capcom name, parts, etc. No remake. He just did what Capcom wasn't able to do... put it into production.

Capcom made 14 prototypes... Gene made 191 production machines... no remakes here or ever.

Sorry Charlie!

#22 6 years ago

Not happening. AFM looks to be next. There seemed to be some groundswell for CC at first also, but no mention in a while. Kingpin would be so cool, but once again. it's not happening. The WPC95 remakes will get done though. Capcom pinball is done. What we have is what we have. Kingpin is a 40k machine now iirc.

#23 6 years ago

You cant have it both ways Tony. Just because you resell BBBRs does not make them originals. I do like though how you are able to cut the line ever so thin around what makes a game a remake and what makes it an original produciton.

By your example, if PPS was making MMR with original boards and name and harness then he would just be doing a continuation of the original production rather than a remake.

BBBR is a remake and so is MMR. Similarly, game play featires will be like the originals in both cases but there will be sublte differences from original and remake.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I wonder how many people were on the list for Kingpin and why it never got built?

Gene needed an original Kingpin to replicate parts and most Kingpin owners were not willing to oblige.

I heard one story that a paticular owner said ok on two conditions:
1. You must pay a deposit (I can't quite remember if it was 50k or 100k)
2. Only Mark Ritchie himself can tear down the game

Obviously nothing ever materialized. I also heard rumors that the software work needed to emulate / replicate some of the capcom chips was holding him up as well....

#25 6 years ago

I've hesitated in adding bbb to my collection for this exact question, These days with all this remake chat, who knows who's trying to cash in on someone else's creations by buying rights and pumping out parts and games....20K for a BBB is a ton of cash if they do remake them so I'm gonna sit on the sidelines till I hear 100% yes or 100% no.

#26 6 years ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

Coming from someone that doesnt own BBB I think re-making all the high value pins not only would kill the collector market but the new pin market would take a hit also. I wouldn't buy one unless it was under 4K.

I'd go $8k on a BBB. I would love to own one, but I can't justify going higher than that. Damn I sound like Neo lol...but he wouldn't go over 6k Here's hopin' someone re-re-re-re-makes the shit out of it!!!

10
#27 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

omeone re-re-re-re-makes the shit out of it!

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#28 6 years ago

If BBB gets another run, I would get one
But I am not going to start saving my money yet

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from Zaxxis:

If there is money to made, there is always a possibility....

Brotha, you ain't never lied.

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

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Catch the wave! Coke!

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

Gene needed an original Kingpin to replicate parts and most Kingpin owners were not willing to oblige.
I heard one story that a paticular owner said ok on two conditions:
1. You must pay a deposit (I can't quite remember if it was 50k or 100k)
2. Only Mark Ritchie himself can tear down the game
Obviously nothing ever materialized. I also heard rumors that the software work needed to emulate / replicate some of the capcom chips was holding him up as well....

I know one of the Kingpin owners who was in talks with Gene to provide him with his game, in exchange for a repro (or two? Don't really remember). Gene dragged his feet for a very long time. When the owner got tired of waiting, he offered Gene first dibs on buying it outright, as he was ready to sell. Gene dragged his feet again, and the game finally sold.

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

From Rick in another thread:

So he specifically mentions Capcom.... I wouldn't want to own a BBB at this time, good odds the (new) remake is coming (eventually).
Obviously there is the little issue of who owns the rights, but where there is a will there's a way.

Yeah, I'd hate to own a $20 grand pin that I paid $4,500 for too...

#33 6 years ago

PMI's BBB was NOT a remake, it was a production run. They used original boardsets and they built all of the parts to manufacturing diagram specs. Other than improving the reliability of the lighting on the ramp and using a couple of graphics with more details on the plastics, the machines are practically the same. There are 13 original games out in the wild, but since PMI and Capcom Pinball were both owned by the same person, the machines produced were production games, not remakes.

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

PMI's BBB was NOT a remake, it was a production run. They used original boardsets and they built all of the parts to manufacturing diagram specs. Other than improving the reliability of the lighting on the ramp and using a couple of graphics with more details on the plastics, the machines are practically the same. There are 13 original games out in the wild, but since PMI and Capcom Pinball were both owned by the same person, the machines produced were production games, not remakes.

agreed, all the remakes now adays just will not be the same, decals, mini boardsets, missing identification tags, and i'm sure other things. It's cool to get a nib older game, but for the true pinball collector not the same thing. If they do make other games and the pricing is at 8K, I highly doubt people will get in line like MMr to buy them when you can get an original game for less in most cases with mods ( BBB & CC ) exculded. It's an exciting time for all of us, but scary at the same time with all this $$ being thrown around for games nobody has seen or played.

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from ctozzi:

agreed, all the remakes now adays just will not be the same, decals, mini boardsets, missing identification tags, and i'm sure other things. It's cool to get a nib older game, but for the true pinball collector not the same thing. If they do make other games and the pricing is at 8K, I highly doubt people will get in line like MMr to buy them when you can get an original game for less in most cases with mods ( BBB & CC ) exculded. It's an exciting time for all of us, but scary at the same time with all this $$ being thrown around for games nobody has seen or played.

What's a 'true collector'?

#36 6 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

PMI's BBB was NOT a remake, it was a production run. They used original boardsets and they built all of the parts to manufacturing diagram specs. Other than improving the reliability of the lighting on the ramp and using a couple of graphics with more details on the plastics, the machines are practically the same. There are 13 original games out in the wild, but since PMI and Capcom Pinball were both owned by the same person, the machines produced were production games, not remakes.

I am not sure how anyone would not define what Gene did as a remake. He had to physically REMAKE the majority of the parts that went into his production run. The BBBRs are NOT identical to the original games or from the original run of games (even if the original run was pre-production or "prototype"), hence they are remakes. It is really pretty cut and dry.

remake > anything that is made anew. something in remade form especially a new version of an original version. creation that is created again.

#37 6 years ago

Someone who owns a bunch of games that PPS is probably going to remake

Quoted from chadderack:

What's a 'true collector'?

#38 6 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Someone who owns a bunch of games that PPS is probably going to remake

A-list only? Doesn't play the games?

Sounds about right

#39 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

The BBBRs are NOT identical to the original games or from the original run of games (even if the original run was pre-production or "prototype"), hence they are remakes. It is really pretty cut and dry.
remake > anything that is made anew. something in remade form especially a new version of an original version. creation that is created again.

There is no such thing as a BBBr and prototypes are rarely identical to the production pins... by your line of thinking I guess we could say Williams remade MM before PPS. They produced some protos and then remade it into the production machines.

Wow, I guess PPS is actually remaking a remake! MMr2... whatever makes you happy.

#40 6 years ago

LOL, Teekee your motives/perceptions are obviously altered by $$$$ signs.

Williams made prototype MM and ran the original produciton games as one big process. It is not like they made ramp molds for ptototype MM then lost them, waited a few years, someonme else bought the remaining crap from Williams, and remade all the parts based off original specs.

Original manufacturer, original process, original games

New manufacturer, new process, remaking parts, remake of original

#41 6 years ago

TeeKee....you're up...

-2
#42 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

TeeKee....you're up...

Yes, I know... I'm up about 41-0 right now. This is a blow out. He's trying hard but his logic is getting worse by the post.

Blowout and its not even halftime... I bet he's a Denver fan.

#44 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am not sure how anyone would not define what Gene did as a remake. He had to physically REMAKE the majority of the parts that went into his production run.

They didn't "remake" anything.. there was no "re" about it. The parts for the original run were never manufactured, because there never was an original run! There was a delay of 8 years between prototype and production. Remember, Gene owns (owned?) Capcom Pinball. He made Capcom BBBs, it says so all over the game. None of this deleted logo and new one like MM. It runs the same ROM that was written in 1996, not a newly modified one without DMD logos. BBB also used all original parts, except for the improved ramplights, pops insert, cab decals and other minor improvements (which sounds about par for the course when going from proto to production)

#45 6 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

What's a 'true collector'?

Someone who prefers the games in their original factory condition, not remakes from who knows where with who knows parts and boards. To each his own, I really could care less what people buy but regardless of what games are remade I still will seek out the originals for my own collection. Not really a big deal either way, but for me I tend to lean towards the oldy but goodies.

#46 6 years ago

There is a distinction between prototypes or pilot machines and regular production games (not even counting the initial whitewood). Artwork and details can vary from one proto to another of the same machine (I've seen three Capcom Kingpin protos and each one had different coloring in the playfield artwork). Scared Stiff pilot run games had numerous details (that we all know about and love - good thing that other people have offered most of them as replacement parts) that weren't in the production games. Capcom made 14 proto Big Bang Bars but never made any regular production games. Gene Cunningham made the first actual production run of BBB, albeit limited to the board sets he had available. I would not call Gene's BBB games remakes.

And now the world will come to an end, because I never thought I would ever agree with teekee about anything.

-2
#47 6 years ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

And now the world will come to an end, because I never thought I would ever agree with teekee about anything.

If you like to be right than you need to agree with me… you may not like it but rarely and I MEAN RARELY am I ever wrong.

#48 6 years ago

i would loooooove for a remake of kingpin to be made. i look forward to playing this pin every year @ cax. i'm hoping ken and tj bring there's to cax 2014. here's hoping

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#49 6 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I wonder how many people were on the list for Kingpin and why it never got built?

He seemed to be short 28 people for the 150 minimum he needed (see Kingpin offer sheet). I wanted it to happen, since I have an empty silkscreened Capcom Kingpin cabinet and I could have had Kingpin number 16 to go with my BBB number 16.

kingpin offer.jpg
#50 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'd go $8k on a BBB.

I wouldn't. $5K tops for me.

I owned a PMI production BBB, kept it NIB for a couple of years (I had no room to set it up), then sold it. I got to play the game in others' collections so I was able to get my fill.

I just played it again a couple of weeks ago and it left me cold. Overly repetitious music (the main music loop is like 10 seconds long) and annoying callouts. Game play was decent but nothing mind blowing.

I think the appearance, rarity, and mystique of the game are the only things that make most people want one.

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