What would cause the feature lights on my Stern Wild Fyre to flicker? I have a good solid 5.4 volts at the lights on the playfield. When I connect a test light to the 5.4 volt line and ground I don't get the flicker.

See the video - the test light doesn't flicker but the lights in the background are flickering.

The rectifier board is new and all new connectors and headers on all the boards including the light driver board. I swapped the driver board with a known good game (Bally 8 Ball) and it still flickers.

Could a shorted or bad bulb be causing this?

Thanks

Bob

Anyone have an idea?

I've disconnected all the feed lines to the feature lights - 5.4 volt line to the back-box and the 5.4 volt line to the playfield. Then I put the game in light test mode. When I connect my test light to the feed line and to ground I get a solid on light. When I connect to any line going to the driver board I get a flickering test light.

Because I get the flicker on the original board and the 8 Ball board and the only light in use is the test light I'm thinking a bad connector to the driver board.

Any idea what connector to look at?

Thanks

Bob

Something else I just noticed - when I turn it on it boots up and plays it's little tune and goes into attract mode. Then after a couple of seconds it boots up again. Sometimes even a third time. Then it's fine and everything works. Could this be related?

Could something on the MPU be causing the flickering feature lights?

Bob

Thanks Quench, Glad you stopped by.

Other than flickering (and a couple of lamps out) all the lamps seem to be functioning correctly - attract and gameplay.

I don't think the problem is with the driver board - I have the same problem after I switched it with a driver board from my 8 Ball.

I have 4 meters but I don't think any of them measure frequency. Maybe I need to get one - What would you suggest?

I was about to go down to the shop to swap the MPU with the 8 ball.

I'll let you know what I find.

Bob

I'm in the shop - I switched the MPU's. The 8 Ball MPU booted - just one time. Not twice like the other board.

The lamps came on (some are still disconnected) but they don't flicker.

Looks like the problem is on the MPU.

I re-connected the remaining feature lights - they don't all work in attract but seem to all work in test mode AND they don't flicker.

I picked up a cheap meter a while back (because it has a loud beep for continuity test). It has an "F" mode. Don't know what it's for - never used it.

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That cheap meter doesn't want to read ohms. So I used my Radio Shack meter. (but it don't have "F" or "Hz")
R21 = 36.45
R22 = 4.79
R23 = .998

I'll try to hook up something to use the "Cx" on the cheap meter.

Be right back

I don't think it likes Cx mode either (but it's good for a loud beep when I'm testing continuity).

I turned the meter to "F" and got 32.8 with nothing connected. Then I connected jumpers to C17 and still got 32.8 - see photo.

Then I turned the meter off and tryed again - this time all I get is 1. - connected or not.

I may have a new C16 and C17 (I'll check tomorrow).

Anything else I can check - Ed is on vacation till next week and I don't have a new 555.

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I just checked and I do have a new C16 - It's much smaller - part number cpr-0.1 uf - 250 V-J from GPE.

Tomorrow I'll change it and see if it makes a difference.

Thanks Quench.

Bob

This is what I I have:

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CPR-0.1uF-250V-J

When I worked on my friends Meteor I noticed the C16 was cracked and I replaced it (I got two from GPE).

I don't know who worked on it before. But his name was Bill - he signed it on the back.

What would be a decent meter with frequency for a novice like me?

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I replaced the C16. No change. Lights still flicker. When it booted it stayed on for some time then re-booted. After the second boot I counted and it took about 20 seconds and re-booted again.

Then I tried it again. First boot it stayed on for about 50 seconds - then re-booted. Stayed on for about 10 seconds - then re-booted. Stayed on for about 20 seconds - then re-booted. Then I started a game. I played the entire game and it stayed on (still had flickering lights). About 20 seconds after the game ended it re-booted again.

I ordered a new 555 timer but it'll be a week or so before I can get it. (GPE is closed for the holidays)

I couldn't try the old C16 in the Cx socket because one leg broke off when I removed it. But I did try the new one before I installed it. The new one just read "1". The only reason I use that meter is for the loud tone on continuity test.

I looked at the meter from China. Several things wrong there - I don't do well on Ebay, it'll take a few weeks to arrive, and the display looks small (hard for these old eyes to see). On the other hand the Kline meter is local and I could get it tomorrow. My only concern is if it will measure the frequency's I need for Pinball games.

Bob

Thanks guys - I thought you'd all be out celebrating the new year. I guess we're getting older.

The only time it seems slow to respond is when the ball drops into the "collect bonus" hole. One time it stuck there. But usually it works fine. I thought it was just a dirty switch.

Now it's booting so often that it's hard to get into test mode - it re-boots as soon as I press the test button. One time I got all the way to switch test and noticed "0" in the display before it re-booted. I don't think any switches are stuck. They all seem to work during game play.

What is strange (to me) is it don't re-boot during game play. It will play the entire game - when the game ends then it will re-boot.

After I changed C16 and installed the board I didn't connect the sound board. (too difficult to plug in and I figured I would be removing the board again anyway.) So, no, the sound board connected makes no difference.

I have been having problems lately installing new connectors but I was very careful when I installed these. (not saying I didn't mess up though).

You said "try with the switches unplugged" - That would be J2 and J3?

I hate re-setting chips but I'll try that.

I'd like to try new PIA's but I'm out (used the last ones on the Magic game) and GPE is still out of stock (has been for a long time). The only other place I can find them is Marco and he's stupid expensive on chips.

Thanks for the input on the meter - Andrew, I think I saw you using that meter on a video (long time ago). I wasn't sure which one it was - My Radio Shack is slow on auto ranging also so that don't bother me. And I need the auto-off because I always forget to turn stuff off. Does it work well for frequencies? Does it measure MHz?

Thanks guys for helping tonight - hope you all have a great New Year.

Bob

It's 4 AM and I can't sleep with this problem in my head. Yesterday I changed the MPU with the 8 Ball and it booted fine and the lights didn't flicker. So I don't think it's the connectors or switches are bad (but I will dis-connect them anyway and try.) I'm beginning to think PIA's are the culprit. Maybe I'll switch them with the 8 Ball. Seems a lot of them are going bad lately. I need to get a handful somewhere.

Tomorrow I'll try again (in the afternoon) I gotta get some sheep.

Bob

I pulled off J2 and J3 - First thing I noticed was it don't re-boot anymore. But the lights still flicker. Actually I thought the lights would all be off with the connectors off.

Then I tried the self test but that don't work with the connectors removed.

Next I'll try switching PIA's with the 8 Ball.

I switched the PIA's with the 8 Ball. I also checked the SW 33 and it checked OK.

Put the board back in with only J1 and J4 connected. It booted then booted again. After 20 seconds it booted a third time. Lights still flicker.

I guess the old PIA's were OK.

What else could be the problem? Could the 555 be causing this?

I gotta get a frequency meter.

I just swapped U9's. No change but it did stay on longer before it re-booted.

I took some photos - maybe you can see something I'm missing.

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back of board:

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I gave up for tonight. The temperature outside is 2*F and it's a little chilly in my shop. Tomorrow I try the Stern MPU in the 8 ball and see how it works.

Actually the Stern MPU appears to be in better condition than the 8 ball.

When I switched IC's I looked over the sockets and they looked in good condition.

One thing I haven't changed is the C17. Do you think it's worth changing? I have one in stock but it's axial - not disc. But it is 0.01 uF - 100 V. Ceramic.

Tomorrow I'll order the 555 from GPE and probably the meter barakandl suggested.

Anything else you think I might need?

8 Ball Photos:

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I just ordered the Mastech. Hopefully it'll be here soon. Let me know how you like the Zotek. That's a good price. I thought about getting both.

I have a logic probe - same one as Terry's. I'm not real good at using it yet but I'm learning.

I put the Stern MPU into the 8 Ball (with Wild Fyre ROM's). It booted then after a couple of minutes it booted again. Then again. The 8 Ball light driver board is in the Stern so I couldn't tell if the lights flicker - but I suspect they would.

I have the MPU on the bench right now so I think I'll change the C17 next. I'm sure the problem is on the board. If C17 don't fix it the only thing left would be the 555. I'll order one tonight when Ed is back. What else could cause this problem?

I'll let you know if a new C17 helps.

Bob

I replaced the C17 - didn't help.

Parts and meter are ordered - but probably won't be here till next week. I feel I'm in the dark without measuring the 555.

The NVRAMs are both new - and I have spares.

I can change out the ROM's, RAM, and NVRAM but if they were faulty wouldn't that keep it from booting?

Previously you said "I'm getting a feeling the 555 timer circuit may not be the issue". Why don't you think it's the problem? We've changed almost everything else.

I have a good 12 volt power supply that I connect to an old solenoid driver board for bench testing MPUs. (5 volts and 12 volts) (Works really good). I also have a 25 volt DC transformer to connect to TP3 to get the seventh flash. If I connected all that up to the MPU could it replicate the re-booting problem?

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I didn't get a chance to get to the shop today (other errands to do). Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

I must have mislead you about J2 and J3. The game does re-boot with J2 and J3 disconnected. As a mater of fact they haven't been connected since I was asked to remove them several attempts ago. (Back when I noticed I still have the flicker even when they are disconnected). Maybe when I replaced the PIA's I didn't leave it on long enough to re-boot.

Something I noticed when I looked closely at the photos above. Pins 23 and 24 of U2 appear to have solder on them. I wonder if they have been repaired? Also there is a small chip in the top of U6.

My next step will be to switch ROM's with the 8 Ball. I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks you all for sticking with me on this - it's been a tough one. Hopefully we'll resolve this soon.

Bob

The two pins on U2 have been repaired. See photo.

I switched the ROMs from the 8 Ball. I also replaced the NVRAM with another new one that I have.

Before I re-installed the board I checked R11 - My cheap meter shows 85.5 ohms. In real life R11 don't look burnt. It's just a brown resistor.

I also inspected the sockets at U2 and U6. The U2 socket has been replaced before. I've never seen this type of socket before. Do you think it needs to be replaced?

Then I re-installed the board - Lights still flicker and it took about 2 minutes before it started re-booting. The it re-boots about every 30 seconds.

I now have the Stern board in with 8 Ball ROM's, PIA's, CPU and a new NVRAM. The only thing not 8 Ball is U7. I'll switch that next.

Can the test's on U8 be performed on the bench?

Bob

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I just switched U7 with the 8 Ball - exact same results as last time. Now all socket'ed chips are from the 8 Ball.

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Getting the 8 Ball back up won't be easy. The light driver board is still in the Wild Fyre - The MPU is on the bench with no chips in it. All the 8 Ball chips are in the Wild Fyre. But I can probe the 4514 chips in the Wild Fyre. I'll do that when I get back to the shop along with turning off all the dip switches.

If that doesn't work I think I'll connect my bench tester to perform the CPU and the 5101 tests. Hopefully I can replicate the re-booting problem on the bench.

We have guests coming this evening so I doubt I'll get any shop time.

Back in the shop now. I moved all dip switches to off. Same results re-booting after a minute and still flickering lights.

I connected my logic probe to the light driver board (on this board TP1 is 5 volts and TP2 is ground). I got a bright LO and a dim HI. Occasionally I'd get a pulse but not consistent. I tried set on TTL and CMOS. same results. I tried on two different chips. Same results.

I just tested again and got the same results. The pulse will flash a couple of times then stop - then flash a few more times then stop. Very strange.

Does this tell you anything?

The new 555 arrived today but no meter yet.

Bob

Looks like 4514 pin 1 is connected to J4 pin 13 (strobe 1). And that goes to J1 pin 11 (strobe 1) on the MPU. I probed the connector window on the MPU and get LO and pulse. Then I went back to LDA J4 - pin 13 and got the same. Then I re-checked 4514 pin and now I get LO and a constant pulse. Maybe my probe wasn't making good contact before.

So now 4514 IS showing LO and pulse.

Bob

I feel much safer connecting to R139 rather than pin 40.

My plan is to connect a jumper to R139, then power up and boot. Then connect the other end of the jumper to TP5. We'll see if that stops the re-booting.

Bob

I connected a jumper to R139, turned it on and waited for it to boot up. Then connected the other end to TP5. Waited about 1 minute and it re-booted. Then about 10 seconds later it booted again. Then about another minute it booted again.

By the way I looked at the original Wild Fyre LDA and TP1 seems to go to ground. The board in the game is from 8 Ball (Bally). On there TP2 is ground.

The only games I have at this time are the 8 Ball and Wild Fyre. I wish Amazon would hurry and deliver my meter.

I think tomorrow I'll hook it up to my test bench.

I now have new 555's. Do you think I should replace the old one?

Bob

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