(Topic ID: 225743)

Wild Card - Bonus issues, mainly. My first EM.


By misterschu

1 year ago



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  • 8 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by misterschu
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Wild Card 5000 point bonus (resized).jpg
Switch blade lifters (resized).jpg
20180926_182634 (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20180926-183138_Drive (resized).jpg
Wild Card 10 pt relay (resized).jpg
wild card manual-compressed.pdf (PDF preview)
wild card schematics.pdf (PDF preview)

#1 1 year ago

Recently picked up my first EM, Williams Wild Card from 1977. I've uploaded the schematic and manual here since they're not currently on IPDB (Uploading new items seems to be disabled?).

Here are the issues I've noticed:

1. Right sling shot doesn't score points or ring chime.
2. The lower switch on right slingshot changes the lit match number in the backbox. Both switches in the left slingshot change the lit match number.
3. Increments of 10000 score in Bonus, but 5000s do not (i.e. 10k or 20k will score, 5k, 15k or 25k will not).
4. Double Bonus doesn't score any Bonus.
5. The Left and Right eject holes intermittently do not spot an Acey or Ducey. While testing this, there was also a point where the switch did not seem to register at all (the ball was not ejected and no points, Aceys or Duceys awarded.)

So far all I have done to address was clean the contacts on the bonus unit with q tip and alcohol.

Would appreciate any guidance as I am a complete noob on EMs. I do own both a multimeter and a soldering iron, and am capable with both.

Thank you in advance!

For learning's sake I'll write my inclinations below (now that I'm sitting down to write and think):

1. For the right slingshot, I'll need to trace the Green-Black wire to the 10 point relay and make sure there's proper continuity.
2. The match problem is confusing for me. I would have imagined it's a short, but the last page of the schematic seems to show the 10 Point Relay connects Match Unit. So, maybe this is proper functionality?
3. Something to do with the X relay?
4. Same as above?
5. Stumped.

wild card manual-compressed.pdfwild card schematics.pdf
#2 1 year ago
Quoted from misterschu:

1. Right sling shot doesn't score points or ring chime.
2. The lower switch on right slingshot changes the lit match number in the backbox. Both switches in the left slingshot change the lit match number.

The way your kickers work is:
- the two switches on either side of the kicker directly fire the kicker solenoid between them (last two coils at the bottom of the schematic).
- under each of the two kicker arms is a switch that should close when the kicker fires, which should in turn fire the 10 point relay (18-19 C on your schematic).
- the 10 point relay does all the heavy lifting (points, chimes, match unit, etc.) as shown in the manual:
Wild Card 10 pt relay (resized).jpg
So you need to figure out which of these isn't working. Start with the four kicking rubber switches and make sure that all four reliably fire the kickers. Then check that the kickers always fire the 10 point relay. Narrowing down where the problem is will identify which switches aren't working.

Your problems could be as simple as dirty contacts but you'll likely need something with a little more oomph than just alcohol and a swab. What you need to remove likely will require a mild mechanical abrasion. Start with a dollar bill or business card. If that doesn't work, try a flexstone or very fine (1000+) sand paper. Use the least aggressive thing that will do the job.

/Mark

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from MarkG:

The way your kickers work is:
- the two switches on either side of the kicker directly fire the kicker solenoid between them (last two coils at the bottom of the schematic).
- under each of the two kicker arms is a switch that should close when the kicker fires, which should in turn fire the 10 point relay (18-19 C on your schematic).
- the 10 point relay does all the heavy lifting (points, chimes, match unit, etc.) as shown in the manual:
[quoted image]
So you need to figure out which of these isn't working. Start with the four kicking rubber switches and make sure that all four reliably fire the kickers. Then check that the kickers always fire the 10 point relay. Narrowing down where the problem is will identify which switches aren't working.
Your problems could be as simple as dirty contacts but you'll likely need something with a little more oomph than just alcohol and a swab. What you need to remove likely will require a mild mechanical abrasion. Start with a dollar bill or business card. If that doesn't work, try a flexstone or very fine (1000+) sand paper. Use the least aggressive thing that will do the job.
/Mark

Thanks Mark, was able to fix the chime issue with some adjustments. The right kicker switches needed some cleaning as did the chime switch at the 10 point relay.

Any ideas about the bonus issues? I'm really not sure where to look here. I don't understand how the bonus count works.

#4 1 year ago

I started looking at the score motor after looking at some other tech threads. Mine seems to be missing some of the spacers/pins on the right-most switch stack. I guess I'll have to find replacements. What are these pieces called?

According to the schematic this is the impulse cam.

20180926_182634 (resized).jpgScreenshot_20180926-183138_Drive (resized).jpg
#5 1 year ago
Quoted from misterschu:

3. Increments of 10000 score in Bonus, but 5000s do not (i.e. 10k or 20k will score, 5k, 15k or 25k will not).

How should the bonus work? Does it award 5000 points at a time, then take one step down, then award another 5000 points until it reaches zero? And how does your bonus work? For example if you're at a 15000 point bonus and the ball drains, do you get no bonus, or do you get nothing until it steps down to 10000?

There are a few interesting switches on the X relay as you suggest. I would carefully examine that relay and activate it manually with the power off. Do each of the switches open and close as you move the armature back and forth? Do all of the contacts on the longer blades over travel some and push back (not just touch) the contacts on the shorter blades? Also consider cleaning all the switch contacts on the X relay carefully.

Same goes for your score motor switch stack. With the power off slowly turn the cams and watch the switches move up and down. Each switch should open and close as the cam turns below it.

Quoted from misterschu:

I started looking at the score motor after looking at some other tech threads. Mine seems to be missing some of the spacers/pins on the right-most switch stack. I guess I'll have to find replacements. What are these pieces called?

It looks like you are missing a couple of switch blade lifters. The part numbers depend on the length of lifter:
Switch blade lifters (resized).jpg

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from MarkG:

How should the bonus work? Does it award 5000 points at a time, then take one step down, then award another 5000 points until it reaches zero? And how does your bonus work? For example if you're at a 15000 point bonus and the ball drains, do you get no bonus, or do you get nothing until it steps down to 10000?

Thanks for your response.

If bonus is at 5k you get 0, 15k you get 10k, 25k you get 20k. I'll have to look at how 5k is awarded (you mean how does the score motor run when a 5k switch is hit, right?) The 10k/20k etc in bonus is awarded by the 10k relay

I'll look into the lifters in the morning

#7 1 year ago

I found a video that shows that the bonus first counts 5000 points as five individual 1000 point pulses if appropriate, then counts the rest of the bonus as individual 10,000 point pulses. Here's how that works:
Wild Card 5000 point bonus (resized).jpg
As the ball is played, the Bonus Unit takes one step up for each 5000 point bonus earned which advances the red arrow in the schematic through the various bonus positions. If the ball drains and the Bonus Unit is not in its zero position, the Bonus relay fires which closes the switch in the upper right corner. If the Bonus Unit is in the 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k or 50k position, the X relay in the upper red box immediately fires and the bonus gets added to the score 10,000 points at a time until the Bonus Unit steps down to zero.

If the Bonus Unit is in a position that requires 5000 points (5k, 15k, 25k, etc.) the X relay does not immediately fire when the Bonus relay switch closes as it does above. Instead, the X relay stays inactive while five pulses from the score motor impulse cam are sent to the 1000 point relay through the circuit in the bottom half. Once 5000 points are added to the score, the Bonus Unit steps down one step (to 10k, 20k, 30k, etc.), and then the X relay fires which changes the position of the Make/Break switch in the red box in the bottom circuit and prevents any more pulses from getting to the 1000 point relay. From there the remaining bonus points are added through the 10,000 point relay.

So I'd see if your X relay holds off for a score motor cycle (a 180 degree turn) before firing on a 15k point bonus. If it does, then check the switches in the bottom circuit to see which one isn't closing properly.

#8 1 year ago

Got a 3d printed spacer/lifter the other night, popped it in and the game is working perfectly now. Thanks for your help MarkG

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