Quoted from JY64:Lol TZ is easy as pie compared to any JJP game
Rule set is pretty easy compared to any new game....JJP or Stern ....
(Topic ID: 262689)
Berlin, CT
Quoted from PtownPin:Rule set is pretty easy compared to any new game....JJP or Stern ....
I agree.
TZ LOOKS extremely complicated with all of the playfield features, but it's not really any different rule wise than it's contemporaries; i.e. shoot "x" to qualify "y", shoot "z" (or maybe "x") to start "y".
That said, I happen to favor the "simple complexity" of rulesets from the 90's games; there were still achievable "stacks" and the ability to have multiple modes running in a lot of games, and it felt like you "achieved" something when you did it (either being rewarded with a neat animation, a sound, a lightshow, etc.). New games certainly do this as well, but somehow, maybe on a Pavlovian level, the older games just seem to do it better, at least for me, anyways. The technological limitations of the time forced some brilliant rules writing to stay within the confines of the hardware, and it shows. There were certainly quirks and bugs, and to me, this just adds to the overall charm of the 90's DMD era.
I guess as the focus shifts more and more to the collector market, we'll see the further extreme (and in my humble opinion, often unnecessary) complication and ultra deepening of rules to increase the longevity of machines in the home market. But I guess that's how you add "value" to a game, in today's cost-savings-above-all-else ethos.
I also guess this is just a sign that I'm getting old. GNR rocks, and I'm excited to play it!
Quoted from Hazoff:[quoted image]
Where did he say anything about it being more or equally as difficult as JJP game?
Exactly. 
Quoted from JY64:Lol TZ is easy as pie compared to any JJP game
I can’t help it if you suck at pinball. 
Quoted from Novastorm:You can start comparing stuff at any point, if there was a rule stating you can only start comparisons when someone else has compared something first, no one would ever be allowed to compare anything?
Wow that's brilliant, thank you. WTF r u talking about? I'm well aware that u can make a comparison anytime but when u quote someone then make a ridiculous retort that has no bearing on the subject at hand it no longer becomes a spontaneous comparison. The man agreed with me that TZ can be intimidating to the casual player and it can be so what does the difficulty of a JJP game have to do with that? Other than being a crazy person making a random comparison. 
Quoted from Forum-ninja:When are we getting news about GNR? I heard the news was supposed to be today?!
JJP likely will 'officially' reveal it on their podcast, which is every Friday.
https://jjppodcast.libsyn.com/
In my experience, pretty much every pin made after 1990 is too complicated for the casual player. It's amazing to me that even with enhanced sound, better displays, and better tech games are move difficult to understand today than ever.
If TZ was such a disaster, how did B/W sell more than 15,000 of them? I don't think there is a 90's game that sold more besides TAF. All pinball has a lot of maintenance and other games had more than usual maintenance (thinking STTNG and IJ). At one time you could find any of the great classics cheap since nobody wanted them.
Quoted from HomerEBW:JJP likely will 'officially' reveal it on their podcast, which is every Friday.
https://jjppodcast.libsyn.com/
Just listened to all 3 or rather 2 podcasts. Nice straight to the point. If they could get it closer to an hour that would work .
Don’t mind podcasts, but if thats is the way they plan to reveal games they have bigger issues than body types.
Quoted from HomerEBW:JJP likely will 'officially' reveal it on their podcast, which is every Friday.
https://jjppodcast.libsyn.com/
How does one reveal pictures of a game on an audio only podcast? I don't even see them announcing when the game will be revealed.
Köln
Quoted from PinballManiac40:How does one reveal pictures of a game on an audio only podcast?
That could actually be kind of cool - somebody describes in minute detail from left to right what’s on the playfield, approximately how far up it is on the playfield, if it’s wide or tight and what’s happening to the ball when you hit it, etc. It would allow us to focus on the playfield without being distracted by artwork, display, etc. Then one could move into the rules, what you’re trying to achieve, how you do it, etc.
I find the way reveals are done now puts too much emphasis on art and colors and not enough on the thoughts behind the layout and rule structures.
Pretty much all new games incorporate concepts already on older games. The evolution is slow and rules also kind of keep repeating themselves so a pinhead doesn’t have to see the game to imagine it.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:How does one reveal pictures of a game on an audio only podcast? I don't even see them announcing when the game will be revealed.
One possibility ..... reveal the game on the podcast and tell the listeners "go to JJP site now as it's been updated with pictures of the game".
1 week later
Gerona
Quoted from jawjaw:If TZ was such a disaster, how did B/W sell more than 15,000 of them?
We had arcades with in excess of 100 pinball machines in the 90s. Many of which sat mostly unplayed. I would put a random game on both it and Addams, but neither was exciting enough to want to stand there and play them all day or put more than fifty cents in them at a time when there were so many others that more fit my style.
At that time, 15,000 was just a normal number of games B/W would produce when attached to a popular license as they were everywhere. It's like asking how did they sell 15,000 T-2s when so many lower play nice examples still exist today.
In an environment where there were only one or two machines and those were them, you either played one of them or found a place with more variety. I remember one pizza joint that had an Addams and a GnR as their only games, and I hardly ever touched Addams.
Quoted from Skyemont:The opportunity is slipping away. Turtles is shipping. By the time GNR is shown, Stern will be showing the next title.
Barring a theme that is a must have for older pinheads, I honestly don't think that that will be an issue.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Barring a theme that is a must have for older pinheads, I honestly don't think that that will be an issue.
Like Led Zeppelin? i'd be willing to bet we'll see at least three more titles come out before GnR ships their first 50 games.
Quoted from Chuckwebster:Like Led Zeppelin? i'd be willing to bet we'll see at least three more titles come out before GnR ships their first 50 games.
I wouldn't take that bet....JJP is always way behind to curve when it comes to production.
Quoted from Chuckwebster:Like Led Zeppelin? i'd be willing to bet we'll see at least three more titles come out before GnR ships their first 50 games.
A Stern Led Zeppelin would be cool, and I'd already love to buy a Beatles for that matter, but a JJP GnR designed by Eric Meunier intrigues me more right now.
1 month later
Quoted from sonambulo:No news...?
No damnit can't you just show a part of the playfield or part of a super cool mech?
Quoted from HomerEBW:I was waiting, then I bought a new car. Dealerships have some crazy deals right now. Maybe next time JJP.
I know the feeling. Been waiting for a new pin to buy and decided to buy a new television instead.
Yeap I just spent 8k on a new driveway and windows for my house. O well. There goes the JJP pinball $. 
Melbourne
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:Plenty of money being printed
And we all know what happens next!
Quoted from Pinchroma:You should wait because it’s awesome.
Is this what they call sarcasm?
Quoted from romulusx:Is this what they call sarcasm?
He has not seen or played it. When it comes out next year, we will all play it.
Quoted from Pinchroma:You should wait because it’s awesome.
Welcome back to Pinside. Are you still working with JJP?
Quoted from Skyemont:He has not seen or played it. When it comes out next year, we will all play it.
I would bet your money that it will be out by Expo timeframe.
Quoted from romulusx:I would bet your money that it will be out by Expo timeframe.
So in 2 months you think we will be able to see and buy?
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Welcome back to Pinside. Are you still working with JJP?
Yup and thank you.
Quoted from LukyDuck:I believe GnR will be revealed before the end of October. That’s my guess.
So do you think when the reveal it they will be available to purchase?
Quoted from JY64:I think Pinchroma is Kaneda gone for 4 yr Kaneda is gone Pinchroma is back
One has nothing to do with the other. I can assure you with 100% certainty I am not Kaneda and find him detestable.
Quoted from Skyemont:So do you think when the reveal it they will be available to purchase?
I believe so. If memory serves me correctly they start selling and shipping very soon afterwards. I am waiting on it and the next CGC remake to make my next purchasing decisions.
Quoted from Skyemont:He has not seen or played it. When it comes out next year, we will all play it.
4.5 months to go. It will be sad if it is not this year. Christmas Time for sure.
Quoted from LukyDuck:If memory serves me correctly they start selling and shipping very soon
You must have bought a Yellow Woz cause other than that I remember differently...
Quoted from Charliew65:You must have bought a Yellow Woz cause other than that I remember differently...
I wouldn’t worry too much about JJP pins,just buy another Stern with a shit playfield!
Quoted from romulusx:I wouldn’t worry too much about JJP pins,just buy another Stern with a shit playfield!
yea....ok
may not be what I have right now but I love JJP 
if you can even remember what I was saying, I ordered most of these games day one and never got them quickly after ordering.
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