(Topic ID: 42886)

Why Would Owners NOT Buy Cliffy Protectors?


By ThatGuy

6 years ago



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  • 183 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by spfxted
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    There are 183 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    #151 6 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Why would you guarantee that?

    My TRON LE has never had a Cliffy at the Arcade scoop and I promise you that it isn't close to being "thrashed out already".

    The Tron I bought was less than a year old, and side of the scoop hole is thrashed, along with some minor damage to the top. It was lightly routed, so got more plays than a home use machine, but eventually a home use machine will get up there in plays. If a Cliffy would've been there from the start, the scoop would still be pristine. I get it, I have seen some older machines with no scoop damage. However I think you get one bad hit, it starts splintering, and it can go from bad to worse real fast.

    I look at it as insurance. You buy it, hope you never need it, but are sure glad it is there if crap happens. My thoughts are get a Cliffy, or, if you really don't like the look of them or are worried about change to game play, get a protector from Mantis if available for your machine. But get something at least. Doing something about it after it is damaged is closing the barn door after the horse gets out.

    #152 6 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    The Tron I bought was less than a year old, and side of the scoop hole is thrashed, along with some minor damage to the top. It was lightly routed, so got more plays than a home use machine, but eventually a home use machine will get up there in plays. If a Cliffy would've been there from the start, the scoop would still be pristine. I get it, I have seen some older machines with no scoop damage. However I think you get one bad hit, it starts splintering, and it can go from bad to worse real fast.
    I look at it as insurance. You buy it, hope you never need it, but are sure glad it is there if crap happens. My thoughts are get a Cliffy, or, if you really don't like the look of them or are worried about change to game play, get a protector from Mantis if available for your machine. But get something at least. Doing something about it after it is damaged is closing the barn door after the horse gets out.

    Yep, I have the Mantis on mine. I'm sure that has helped. My Arcade scoop has almost no wear at all.

    #153 6 years ago
    Quoted from exflexer:

    Noooo its not your product at all its the installer. Typical response. I really like how on your site the free kick protector shows the start of the lifting. Which is exactly what starts to happen then lifts more and more. Almost every WCS I have seen that has your protecters on them has the lifting issue. Maybe you should address the issue before someone else comes along and starts making a product superior to yours.

    That is way too harsh. In my dealings with Cliff, if you contact him with a problem he is more than willing to help out. He takes pride in his products. Obviously you have a drum to bang with the WCS kick hole protector as is evident from the other thread you referenced. I would suggest contacting Cliff to see if he has a suggestion. If he doesn't, take the thing out. The most common cause of a protector lifiting is going to be if it was overtightened and you start to bend the metal out of shape.

    My big concern is that Cliff is going to take a look at a lot of this whining and just decide to toss the millons (sarcasm) he is making from the protectors and just let the community fend for itself.

    #154 6 years ago

    Insurance against what exactly?

    Lets say you have a basically minty HUO game...with a cliffy (no damage underneath)...how much more valuable is it than a basically minty HUO game with a cliffy with some minor - or freak chip due to poor clearcoat or whatever - wear damage around the scoop being protected?

    In each case the cliffy entire covers the damage. And, one would think, any additional damage is now impossible.

    Is this going to have any real impact on the sale price?

    #155 6 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    That is way too harsh. In my dealings with Cliff, if you contact him with a problem he is more than willing to help out. He takes pride in his products. Obviously you have a drum to bang with the WCS kick hole protector as is evident from the other thread you referenced. I would suggest contacting Cliff to see if he has a suggestion. If he doesn't, take the thing out. The most common cause of a protector lifiting is going to be if it was overtightened and you start to bend the metal out of shape

    I bought a WCS that had Cliffy protectors at all the saucers. They were all curling and raised off of the PF. I posted a thread asking how to remedy the situation, and Cliff responded and generously sent me out new double sided tape free of charge (even though I wasn't the original purchaser). After re-installing them, they worked great. WCS was sold to another Pinsider, and they haven't curled again as far as I know.

    #156 6 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Yep, I have the Mantis on mine. I'm sure that has helped. My Arcade scoop has almost no wear at all.

    Ah. I thought you were indicating you had no protection there at all and so were backing the "wait until it is damaged before you put a protector on" line of thinking, which is crazy imo.

    I like Mantis' products as well, I have his underramp protectors in my TNG and am thinking of swapping out my X-men cliffy for the Mantis one to see if it reduces the "scoop hole rim out to STDM drain" problem I am having.

    #157 6 years ago

    Cliffy can take it. Lol. No one is saying his products are bad. The debate mainly centers on "when" not "if" you should use them. My additional question is why bother on a shooter lane? Who ever looks at the shooter lane? A few dings in the shooter lane might look better than left/right armor. Especially if a piece of Mylar will keep the area clean.

    -1
    #158 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Insurance against what exactly?

    Lets say you have a basically minty HUO game...with a cliffy (no damage underneath)...how much more valuable is it than a basically minty HUO game with a cliffy with some minor - or freak chip due to poor clearcoat or whatever - wear damage around the scoop being protected?

    In each case the cliffy entire covers the damage. And, one would think, any additional damage is now impossible.

    Is this going to have any real impact on the sale price?

    Insurance against damage occurring. Sorry, thought it was obvious. I never mentioned anything about impacts to sale price. I guess it depends who is doing the buying and how picky they are. I have never bought a machine with Cliffys already in them so can't say from personal experience. However someone having them in tells me that they either really care about the quality of their machines, or are hiding some major damage. I would probably ask which was which and be guided from there.

    To answer the OP's original question, as to why someone wouldn't buy cliffy protectors, for me it boils down to this:

    1) Ramp protectors. Only a moron wouldn't buy ramp protectors. Replacing ramps are very expensive, and all it takes is one unlucky hit to crack/break the ramp. Buy them.

    2) Scoop hole protectors, saucer, etc:

    Get them. I see it as stopping damage from occurring in the first place. I get some people don't care if their playfield sustains damage, or don't like the look of the Cliffy. I am not one of them. Personal preference comes into play here obviously.

    Mantis protectors are available for some machines. They solve the "look" problem and have less possibility of impacting playability, so are a great option for people with those concerns.

    #159 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    My additional question is why bother on a shooter lane? Who ever looks at the shooter lane?

    Anytime someone lists a pin for sale and puts up pictures that doesn't include the shooter lane, people will ask for pictures of the shooter lane!

    I think the reason for this isn't that it is so important for the shooter lane itself to look good, rather it can be an indicator of how much the pin has been played and how much wear the rest of the pin might have.

    #160 6 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Anytime someone lists a pin for sale and puts up pictures that doesn't include the shooter lane, people will ask for pictures of the shooter lane!

    I think the reason for this isn't that it is so important for the shooter lane itself to look good, rather it can be an indicator of how much the pin has been played and how much wear the rest of the pin might have.

    +1000

    #161 6 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    My big concern is that Cliff is going to take a look at a lot of this whining and just decide to toss the millons (sarcasm) he is making from the protectors and just let the community fend for itself.

    Now this is funny.

    #162 6 years ago
    Quoted from exflexer:

    Noooo its not your product at all its the installer. Typical response.

    You're absolutely right. Very sorry for that. I was feeling attacked and responded unfairly. I sincerely appreciate your advice, thanks.

    #163 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Cliffy can take it. Lol.

    Not as well as some might think. My HEART is in my creations. I can't figure out what I did to piss some people off so badly as it's never been my intention to do so. If my protectors work for you, great, my goal is accomplished. If not let me know what needs to be done to fix it. If no fix works well enough then just return them for a refund. If you feel you don't need them at all, fantastic. Just don't use them. I respect everyone's right to choose. I dunno. Not sure what to think at this point.

    #164 6 years ago

    You've always been a great help to me Cliffy. I love ya man. Keep up the good work. I suppose no matter who you are you can never make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time.

    Do you remember the old ads that used to say 9 out of 10 dentists recommend whatever? There was always that 1 oddball dentist that the other 9 dentists just couldn't get on board with them. If that's applicable to the pinball hobby, there will always be that 1 out of 10 pinheads that don't use Cliffys. I'm afraid it may just be unavoidable.

    #165 6 years ago

    do you have any plans to make protectors for the plastics under the mini pf on the shadow? The allways get broken and seem to be rare as rocking horse poo now

    #166 6 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    Only a moron wouldn't buy ramp protectors.

    Is this kind of like saying only a moron wouldn't buy mudflaps?

    I don't have those either, so guess I am a moron.

    #167 6 years ago

    Cliffy a good company, and believe he has passion for his product/ art. I'm glad a Pinsider turned me on to him.....thank you Cliff.....PLUS nice t-shirt swag...come on!!!!

    #168 6 years ago

    Here is what I've decided for now.....I bought Cliffy's for my Lotr Le, SM and Wpt and won't put them on yet in my HUO environment except for the shooter lane ejects....I'm going with the "hard as nails" and self laminating strips in the other areas....

    My biggest concern is the balls hammering the protectors and nicking which may cause damage to the rest of the play field....I don't know if that is common or not but its a concern to me...

    Until I hear/see evidence to the contrary this is it for me for the time being...

    #169 6 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Anytime someone lists a pin for sale and puts up pictures that doesn't include the shooter lane, people will ask for pictures of the shooter lane!
    I think the reason for this isn't that it is so important for the shooter lane itself to look good, rather it can be an indicator of how much the pin has been played and how much wear the rest of the pin might have.

    I know this, of course. But when the game is otherwise mint...yada yada yada. When the only time you pay attention to the shooter lane is buying or selling, that tells you something. It tells you that you really don't ever look at the shooter lane....so why purchase $40 worth of armor for it? The game itself is going to have the same wear regardless. If its because you're a perfectionist, fine, but I'm not. If people really need the shooter lane to divulge the secret history of the game they probably shouldn't be buying expensive or vintage pinball machines.

    #170 6 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    Insurance against damage occurring. Sorry, thought it was obvious. I never mentioned anything about impacts to sale price. I guess it depends who is doing the buying and how picky they are. I have never bought a machine with Cliffys already in them so can't say from personal experience. However someone having them in tells me that they either really care about the quality of their machines, or are hiding some major damage. I would probably ask which was which and be guided from there.
    To answer the OP's original question, as to why someone wouldn't buy cliffy protectors, for me it boils down to this:
    1) Ramp protectors. Only a moron wouldn't buy ramp protectors. Replacing ramps are very expensive, and all it takes is one unlucky hit to crack/break the ramp. Buy them.
    2) Scoop hole protectors, saucer, etc:
    Get them. I see it as stopping damage from occurring in the first place. I get some people don't care if their playfield sustains damage, or don't like the look of the Cliffy. I am not one of them. Personal preference comes into play here obviously.
    Mantis protectors are available for some machines. They solve the "look" problem and have less possibility of impacting playability, so are a great option for people with those concerns.

    Did you read beyond the first sentence of my post? Do you put clear vinyl furniture covers over all your choice new furnishings? Your killer leather coach and chair, etc.? Your red velvet chaise? Saving them for when company comes over or for the next owner when you sell them? See my point yet?

    #171 6 years ago

    At the end of the day, many - maybe most - people consider them "damage prevention". I'm one of the people that would use them for hiding damage once its there. No losers here.

    Although I did buy a shooter lane protector in a moment of weakness and will install it on my ACDC. Maybe ill become a convert.

    #172 6 years ago
    Quoted from ThatGuy:

    I'm curious to why owners would not buy Cliffy protectors to protect their machines from wear. install?

    I will always procrastinate to install one of these. Some take forever to install.

    Well worth it in the end, however.

    #173 6 years ago

    Cliffy is a stand up guy and an asset to our community.

    As for his protectors I use them! I also use...
    .floor mats in my car
    .Protectors on the bottoms of my kitchen chairs (so they don't scratch my hardwood floors)
    .A screen protector on my iPhone and my ipad
    Ect ect

    I like keeping my stuff nice
    Keep the products coming Cliffy

    #174 6 years ago

    I am a huge fan of Cliffy's product, service and dedication to the hobby.

    The only issues I've had with Cliffy's protectors have been on games with clear coated playfields.

    My IJ williams had crazy airballs when I installed the protector on the center ball lock shot.

    My MM had some bad hangups/airballs when I installed the drawbridge protector. Do I regret buying either of these? Hell no. If the machines ever show real wear then they're going right back on.

    #175 6 years ago

    I have a cliffy protector and colored post sleeves enroute for my newest game right now Several games I have acquired had some wear and my first thought when I was deciding whether or not to buy was " a Cliffy will cover that right up." I personally actually like the clean, crisp look they give on most games I have seen them on and should another game find it's way to me, I will most likely be shooting him an email the day after I set it up.

    #176 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Did you read beyond the first sentence of my post? Do you put clear vinyl furniture covers over all your choice new furnishings? Your killer leather coach and chair, etc.? Your red velvet chaise? Saving them for when company comes over or for the next owner when you sell them? See my point yet?

    I get your point, I choose to disagree with it. Sorry. You install or don't install what you like on your machines, I will do the same. I don't put coverings on my furniture, but I am sure some do. I guess if my furniture was constantly subjected to flying balls of steel I would think about changing my approach though.

    Quoted from wayout440:

    Is this kind of like saying only a moron wouldn't buy mudflaps?
    I don't have those either, so guess I am a moron.

    Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here. Just expressing my opinion. Going from experience having to replace a broken Tron ramp, a chunk was missing out of the ramp. It wasn't cheap. A Cliffy on the ramp would've saved money in the long run. Newer run Trons, and all X-men, ship with protectors straight from Stern. Given that, I don't see why anyone would argue against ramp protectors. Suit yourself though.

    #177 6 years ago
    Quoted from Concretehardt:

    .floor mats in my car
    .Protectors on the bottoms of my kitchen chairs (so they don't scratch my hardwood floors)
    .A screen protector on my iPhone and my ipad

    I'm not sure these cover artwork up, so the analogy is not quite accurate... I suppose if you have pictures hanging on the wall and you cover them with a sheet so the sun doesn't fade them, that would be more accurate an analogy

    #178 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    I'm not sure these cover artwork up, so the analogy is not quite accurate... I suppose if you have pictures hanging on the wall and you cover them with a sheet so the sun doesn't fade them, that would be more accurate an analogy

    Seriously, how much art is being covered up by Cliffy's? I'd say give me a break on this one.

    Personally I think they look cool.

    I have them on my WCS (no lifting) and on STTNG. Can't say it's destroyed the "art" in any way.
    My Star Trek playfield looked absolutely perfect........except for the "Nutral Zone" hole.......now my playfield looks absolutely perfect.

    Properly installed I have not noticed any difference in game play. I have some for my HS2 also but I'm just waiting until it needs a shop job to install them.

    #179 6 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    If my furniture was subjected to flying balls of steel I would think about changing my approach.

    So you're saying that Superman has never landed on your couch?

    #180 6 years ago

    just to put the thread back on track ;0)

    do you have any plans to make protectors for the plastics under the mini pf on The Shadow? The allways get broken and seem to be rare as rocking horse poo now

    #181 6 years ago

    I really don't get the car floor mat analogy. They work. My heal has rubbed many a hole through my car mats that would certainly show up in the car carpet if not for the mats.
    I finally purchased my first Cliffy TAF chair protector at the Texas Pinball Fest. I have yet to install it but I thought it looked small and unobtrusive. My chair scoop looks great with only very minor chipping so why not head any trouble off at the pass while I still can.

    #182 6 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Seriously, how much art is being covered up by Cliffy's? I'd say give me a break on this one.

    Obviously the analogy isn't 100% accurate... maybe 1% accurate...?? I'd say there's more art covered up that would be missing if the area was worn, that's for sure

    Clearly some people like them, which is great for Cliffy, and some people don't... I'm just not a fan of the steel collar look around scoop holes, that's all... do I prefer to see wear, well it depends how much to be honest... If it was a lot and the Cliffy was big enough to cover it, I'd probably use one because the work to actually fill the damaged area in, sand it to the right shape, touch it up well and clear the playfield is beyond my capabilities, so I'd put a Cliffy there and say it's perfect underneath (sorry, that last bit was a joke, I'd never lie like that!).

    If I see a Cliffy on a game I'm put off because I imagine the playfield is destroyed underneath...

    I love Cliffy's dedication to the hobby and he definitely makes some excellent stuff, but the p/f protectors just don't do it for me personally...

    #183 6 years ago

    Cliffy IS God! Thanks Cliffster for all you do!

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