(Topic ID: 42886)

Why Would Owners NOT Buy Cliffy Protectors?


By ThatGuy

6 years ago



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  • 183 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by spfxted
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    There are 183 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
    #101 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    had cliffys around the bad guy drop targets... he swore there was no wear underneath and they were there to stop wear... but it looked, IMO, awful!

    sorry, just trying to keep games from wearing out

    #102 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    does a Cliffy always have metal that extends ONTO the playfield surface and therefore covers any wear

    Yes. That's MY design. Kerry's are his own design that go inside the scoop.

    #103 6 years ago
    Quoted from exflexer:

    WH20 is another. The VUK protector is super thick which causes hangups and jumping. I have seen people try to remedy this by installing mylar transitions, spring steel transitions, even routing out the upper play field to fit the protector.

    This is not installed correctly then and wow that's the first I've heard of spring transitions and playfield routing. Does anyone actually ever LOOK at the damned website to see how things are supposed to go? No? I didn't think so.

    #104 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    I've bought some metal shooter lane protection,but it just bothers me whenever I consider installing them

    Then don't. Just send them back. Why get them in the first place?

    #105 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    If I had large wear I'd certainly consider a Cliffy to cover it up, but I'm still not convinced... it's like brusing the dirt under the carpet in a way...

    Nice. Please just don't use my inventions then. Thanks!

    #106 6 years ago
    Quoted from Cliffy:

    sorry, just trying to keep games from wearing out

    Dude, don't be sorry...I think most of us are super grateful that your protectors exist. I know I am!

    #107 6 years ago

    This is not installed correctly then and wow that's the first I've heard of spring transitions and playfield routing. Does anyone actually ever LOOK at the damned website to see how things are supposed to go? No? I didn't think so.

    Don't sweat it Cliffy, I bought a MPF and was going to template off of it but you already made one.
    I installed it on my game and had to shim the ramp at the top for the transition and it works flawlessly.
    I will be installing it on my new PF, I have used both the Kerry and the Cliffy's, on MB I used the Kerry and blue tape as a mold for the epoxy, bedded the Cliffy then reinstalled the Kerry behind it.
    The blown out mosh pit on that game is bulletproof, I did the same thing on my TAF.
    You have to bed these protectors and fit them properly, you can't just slap them in there because there are variations in each PF.
    The only ones I have had problems with are the ones that fit behind like the Spider hole on SSTIF.
    Even with the hyperthins a slow ball will hang on the edge.
    I elected to leave this one off, same thing with my AFM when I swapped in the new PF I just went with the Kerry and put the Cliffys in the coinbox.
    There was no line from the Cliffy in the old PF from the edge of the protector and there were several hundred plays on the game before the swap.

    Here is a pic of the old PF stripped, you can see the JB weld I used to bed the protector and there is no line in the finish on the PF from the protector at the top or the bottom.
    As a rule I use Kerrys on new PFs and make one up for the games I can't get one for and use Cliffys for ones that are worn.
    When I ask people if they want a new PF or do they want a repair with a Cliffy they say Cliffy it up.
    Nobody says shop it and leave the ratty looking hole.
    My two cents on the subject.

    AFM_Playfield_009.jpg

    #108 6 years ago

    +1 to following the directions. Hyperthins will require epoxy to repair holes or dimples, otherwise they protectors get bent out of shape easily. I rebuilt my GnR and FH holes, as well as a friend's AFM and MB. No issues on any of these games as far as I know. No 'lines' hammered into the PF or anything of that nature.

    #109 6 years ago

    The cliffy on Creature is an obvious necessity. Still, when I get that bounce out on a Super Jackpot shot to the snackbar scoop, you better believe I will blame him for it.

    #110 6 years ago
    Quoted from Cliffy:

    had cliffys around the bad guy drop targets... he swore there was no wear underneath and they were there to stop wear... but it looked, IMO, awful!

    sorry, just trying to keep games from wearing out

    My suggestion to stop the area around the bad-guy drop targets from wearing out is to adjust the targets properly so that they don't fall too far into the playfield, that way the edges of the hole won't get whacked by the ball and you won't get any wear... you'll also be able to see the artwork AND you won't get line damage from the edge of the cliffy as it gets pushed into the p/f when the ball flys over it...

    To install a cliffy on the CC bad guys when no wear is there instead of adjusting the targets is, IMHO, madness!

    Quoted from Cliffy:

    If I had large wear I'd certainly consider a Cliffy to cover it up, but I'm still not convinced... it's like brusing the dirt under the carpet in a way...

    Nice. Please just don't use my inventions then. Thanks!

    You have to admit that there's some validity in the analogy though eh... It is an easy way of hiding the problem... Of course your work in designing and making these things is NOT easy, which is why I said I admire what you do and your dedication to the hobby... I have bought your inventions before in the form of ramp protectors and I hope that by my giving my opinions on the playfiled protecors/damage masks it doesn't mean that you won't want me to buy the other excellent things you make... Or even a playfield cliffy if I'm feeling lazy

    Please don't be offended Mr Cliffy, I respect you greatly, but at the same time I do appreciate being able to voice my opinion when asked... which is what this topic is doing...

    #111 6 years ago

    Cliffy's are a great service for sure, a few have issues, as I've never used or heard of anyone using a saucer protector that worked flawlessly, and others are a god sent. My belief was Kerry Stairs on new PF's, cliffys over slight wear, or reworked areas, BUT since getting a restored TAF with a BD cc'd new PF, there is some slight wear already starting to the chair hole, and I'm debating using the cliffy to protect from seeing more.

    I have many installed on many machines though, and there is no doubt that a huge percentage of machines out there look better because of him.

    #112 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    I do appreciate being able to voice my opinion when asked... which is what this topic is doing...

    absolutely. I would never squash anyone's right to voice their opinion. The road goes both ways so you'll have to respect my right to respond too. I didn't start this topic and I probably should have stayed out of it but I just couldn't. Sorry. I admit I'm fairly sensitive about my little brainchildren

    #113 6 years ago

    Mr Cliffy, have you ever thought about doing a clear durable plastic cliffy for non-worn playfields so that the original artwork (and the fact that the playfield isn't chewed up) can shine through? The moulding can be such that the edge tapers off to nothing so that the edge won't get pushed into the playfield by the ball... Now that would be awesome IMO... I'd imagine a plastic moulding would be fairly cheap once the mould is made, so you could sell them in packs of 3 or so so the owner could change them out every so often and clean under-them, give the playfield a wax and it would look like new with a new clear cliffy... I personally have a problem with the metal collar look for some reason... With plastic you could even use the champher of the playfield at the hole (on games that have it) to allow a thicker amount of plastic at that high stress point to reduce cracking and increase their life...??

    #114 6 years ago

    Hm, a volcano shaped protector, that'll make the shots easier to make.

    Quoted from pinballslave:

    Mr Cliffy, have you ever thought about doing a clear durable plastic cliffy for non-worn playfields so that the original artwork (and the fact that the playfield isn't chewed up) can shine through? The moulding can be such that the edge tapers off to nothing so that the edge won't get pushed into the playfield by the ball... Now that would be awesome IMO... I'd imagine a plastic moulding would be fairly cheap once the mould is made, so you could sell them in packs of 3 or so so the owner could change them out every so often and clean under-them, give the playfield a wax and it would look like new with a new clear cliffy... I personally have a problem with the metal collar look for some reason... With plastic you could even use the champher of the playfield at the hole (on games that have it) to allow a thicker amount of plastic at that high stress point to reduce cracking and increase their life...??

    #115 6 years ago
    Quoted from blownfuse:

    Hm, a volcano shaped protector, that'll make the shots easier to make.

    Funnel gunnels?
    Brilliant!

    #116 6 years ago

    Cliff, do you put them on a brand new pin? Or wait until you discover wear? In home use ive found by keeping wax on the pins has helped in preventing wear. Although ive purchased probablly 15 protectors for pins that have wear or are starting to wear? Just curious whAt your thoughts were.

    #117 6 years ago
    Quoted from Cliffy:

    It's the fact that metal doesn't absorb energy like nice soft wood does.

    If a ball gets nicked up from hitting a metal protector (and you don't notice the nicks and remove the ball) it can travel around the playfield inflicting other damage.

    Quoted from o-din:

    You probably won't get much wear in the home environment anyway.

    I agree with this. Especially if you have ten or more pins (dividing up gameplay and potential wear) and you hardly ever have anyone over to your house (and if, like me, you have no kids and your wife doesn't like to play pinball).

    #118 6 years ago
    Quoted from blownfuse:

    Hm, a volcano shaped protector, that'll make the shots easier to make.

    You're on the right lines, just turn down the thickness a bit

    #119 6 years ago

    I have never bought a cliffy protector nor do I have any intention to. Folks who have this also probably have or use one or more of the following, also not necessary.

    Silicon waterproofing shoe spray
    SPF 15 Sunscreen
    Vitamins
    Car floor mats
    Negative ion air filters
    UV protective deck finish

    Crack open a beer and play some pinball!

    #120 6 years ago

    Folks who don't buy Cliffy's have the following....Wear around their holes.

    #121 6 years ago
    Quoted from littlecammi:

    If a ball gets nicked up from hitting a metal protector (and you don't notice the nicks and remove the ball) it can travel around the playfield inflicting other damage.

    If you think the impact of the ball hitting a cliffy is enough to create premature ball wear then consider the same impact force is at play on the playfield hole, which is why a protector was necessitated in the first place. The right course of action is to just inspect and replace your pinballs as needed, which in a home environment is still probably only once every few years.

    #122 6 years ago

    I generally don't use protectors because it changes how the game plays.

    #123 6 years ago

    I dont use protectors, thats why I have 4 kids!

    #124 6 years ago
    Quoted from ninjadoug:

    I generally don't use protectors because it changes how the game plays

    But a chewed out hole doesn't? TAF, LAH, AFM, and MB for example get super easier with the major wear they are prone to.

    #126 6 years ago

    Cheer up...you KNOW we love ya!!

    #127 6 years ago

    Well, my new cliffy's are installed on my SF2, and I finally got the game up and running again. Got to play a few games, and I really didn't notice a difference. On my pin, I was able to hit the holes with the same amount of skill, and didn't feel they changed the game enough to complain (if at all). I may not be as good of a player as most of you, but I can tell you I will be buying more cliffy's in the future.

    #128 6 years ago

    Picking up my new Scared Stiff this weekend. Cliffy's HAD to be installed, or no deal!

    #129 6 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    But a chewed out hole doesn't? TAF, LAH, AFM, and MB for example get super easier with the major wear they are prone to.

    If the hole gets chewed up to the point where it affects game play you fix the playfield properly.

    I should also state that I'm referring to hole protectors and not ramp protectors.

    Cliffy make a great product, but I almost always pull any hole protector that is on the top side of the playfield off when I buy a game.

    #130 6 years ago

    I wish I thought of snapping pictures of my LOTR before installing mine. All three spots didn't have any wear and looked brand new. I didn't even realize what a find that is until I started seeing other HUO pics that looked worn compared and everyone was commenting how nice they were.
    Glad I got cliffy's on now to keep them like that.

    #131 6 years ago
    Quoted from BOBCADE:

    Glad I got cliffy's on now to keep them like that.

    Sadly you can no longer see that they're like that...

    Does everyone comment how nice they are with the Cliffys there?

    Sorry, couldn't resist... I do love you too Cliffy!

    #132 6 years ago

    30$ cliffy>Buying a 900$ playfield imo. I've had my tron for only 2 years and I guarantee the arcade scoop would be thrashed out already. his ramp protectors also saved 2 ramps (one was replaced by stern). so that was another 400$?

    60$ saved me 1300$ in the long run easily.

    #133 6 years ago
    Quoted from Cliffy:

    Then don't. Just send them back. Why get them in the first place?

    You get them so if you ever sell the machine you don't have to hear about shooter lane wear. You don't have to like them. I may or may not install the ones I have, and I may or may not buy more. I reserve the right to do either as well as change my mind.

    My ambivalence doesn't apply to other playfield areas. I bought your protectors for my LOTR, but never installed them because i liked the game as it was was. HUO since the day it was made in 2004 and no vuk wear. If wear began I probably would have installed them. When I sold the game I included the Cliffys.

    I would use your products to cover playfield wear areas that could continue to degrade and potentially impact play, as well as being ugly to look at. For me, I never look at the shooter lane and I've never experienced my pinball experience to be degraded by a roughed up shooter lane. But my otherwise beautiful HUO SM has some of the white paint chipped away because Stern did a lousy job clear coating it, and someone actually said that would influence their buying decision.

    Seems like alot of stuff in this hobby is driven by what "other" people think or what others might say about something: condition, price, ratings. Seeing as I can't just buy every machine I want and have to sell to buy, I must consider insuring against future damage, etc.. I don't have to like it.

    #134 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    Sadly you can no longer see that they're like that...
    Does everyone comment how nice they are with the Cliffys there?
    Sorry, couldn't resist... I do love you too Cliffy!

    This is exactly right. Unless the expectation is to ultimately sell for top dollar to an obsessive perfectionist, why not wait UNTIL their damaged to put them on? So the unmarred game can be appreciated as unmarred. With Cliffy's on, everything you're protecting may as well be thrashed. Total catch 22.

    #135 6 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    Picking up my new Scared Stiff this weekend. Cliffy's HAD to be installed, or no deal!

    OMG! How many SS is this for you now?

    #136 6 years ago

    I sure wish whoever had my Tron before me had put on a Cliffy. The arcade scoop would be in much better shape. Anyone who says they are unnecessary either really enjoys repairing playfield damage, don't care about the condition of their machines or only play them once a month.

    Cliff, don't let the naysayers get you down.

    #137 6 years ago

    Cliffys are a no-brainer for:

    Pins with scoops near the flippers (Tron, TZ, CSI)
    Pins with no clearcoat (e.g. system 11s)
    Pins with guns (e.g. Dirty Harry, where you actually "shoot" a hole!)
    Pins with previous wear

    Sure, it would be nice to "fix the wear properly", but how many of us can really do this?

    I agree with fixing other root causes, like magnets and DTs that are too low.

    #138 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    This is exactly right. Unless the expectation is to ultimately sell for top dollar to an obsessive perfectionist, why not wait UNTIL their damaged to put them on? So the unmarred game can be appreciated as unmarred. With Cliffy's on, everything you're protecting may as well be thrashed. Total catch 22.

    If you agree with me, why the thumbs down? I know, iPhone controls

    #139 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    OMG! How many SS is this for you now?

    Only my 3rd. (and hopefully last!) ...and Cliffy....I actually LIKE the way they look!

    #140 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    If you agree with me, why the thumbs down? I know, iPhone controls

    I don't think I did, but it's funny how many times I try to scroll on my ipad and leave karma tracks by mistake. There should be an "are you sure?" dialog for mobile devices.

    #141 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    This is exactly right. Unless the expectation is to ultimately sell for top dollar to an obsessive perfectionist, why not wait UNTIL their damaged to put them on? So the unmarred game can be appreciated as unmarred. With Cliffy's on, everything you're protecting may as well be thrashed. Total catch 22.

    I'm a noob and realize this now. But no way in hell am I going back in to take off lol.

    Plus I like the piece of mind.

    #142 6 years ago
    Quoted from BOBCADE:

    Plus I like the piece of mind.

    I like Piece of Mind too.

    Sorry, couldn't resist

    #143 6 years ago
    Quoted from vulture:

    I like Piece of Mind too.
    » YouTube video
    Sorry, couldn't resist

    Rip clive burr.

    #144 6 years ago

    Funny typo. Up the IRONS! Shame about Clive. MS sucks

    #145 6 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I don't think I did

    You didn't... but I was talking to TFA... or is that you with another profile...?

    #146 6 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Pins with scoops near the flippers (Tron, TZ, CSI)
    Pins with no clearcoat (e.g. system 11s)
    Pins with guns (e.g. Dirty Harry, where you actually "shoot" a hole!)
    Pins with previous wear

    Sure, it would be nice to "fix the wear properly", but how many of us can really do this?

    I agree with fixing other root causes, like magnets and DTs that are too low.

    I think the arguement is that for pins without wear, a mantis protector will still protect the hole, but at the same time not cover the artwork with sheet steel, the latter of which is surely defeating the object of keeping the playield nice if you can't see it... in fact it makes it look like it's covering damage, even if it's not there!

    #147 6 years ago
    Quoted from Cliffy:

    This is not installed correctly then and wow that's the first I've heard of spring transitions and playfield routing. Does anyone actually ever LOOK at the damned website to see how things are supposed to go? No? I didn't think so.

    Noooo its not your product at all its the installer. Typical response. I really like how on your site the free kick protector shows the start of the lifting. Which is exactly what starts to happen then lifts more and more. Almost every WCS I have seen that has your protecters on them has the lifting issue. Maybe you should address the issue before someone else comes along and starts making a product superior to yours.

    Here's a complaint: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wcs-cliffy-protector
    Another: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wcs-cliffy-bending-up

    #148 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    You didn't... but I was talking to TFA... or is that you with another profile...?

    It was an accident. I removed it.

    #149 6 years ago
    Quoted from Ballsofsteel:

    I've had my tron for only 2 years and I guarantee the arcade scoop would be thrashed out already.

    Why would you guarantee that?

    My Tron LE has never had a Cliffy at the Arcade scoop and I promise you that it isn't close to being "thrashed out already".

    #150 6 years ago

    I've seen that Arcade scoop beat to crap. But that was at a route location where the game got lots of action every day. I also know that the OP at that location was disappointed that the cliffy impeded the way the scoop worked, and that's why he didn't have one there.

    NOTE: that OP has Cliffys on lots of other machines and is very happy with them.

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