Why TWD is better than MET or AC/DC

(Topic ID: 145354)

Why TWD is better than MET or AC/DC


By T7

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by emkay
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27
#1 3 years ago

These are compared quite a bit, so I thought I'd start a discussion thread. First - I own all 3 games in Premium form and think they are ALL GREAT. But TWD gets played the most by far. Here's why...

TWD vs Metallica
-------------------
There's one thing that really puts TWD ahead of MET for me: the TWD modes.

I'll explain - Metallica doesn't really have "normal" modes - much of the time you are working on starting a multiball or getting to some mini-wizard mode. TWD has 5 "normal" modes that you can get really good points on in any of them - and they are always only 1 or 2 drop target banks away (and it's only 3 drop targets). Add in the playfield and shot multipliers and every mode can be extremely exciting. Now add in strategical decisions on which mode to pick (by skill) and whether to play it solo or stacked with multiball(s).

Both games have awesome wizard modes, mini-wizard modes and multiballs, but TWD has much more going on when you are not in those. I prefer playing with friends or in competitions, and TWD keeps it really exciting because a player can catch up fast if they can nail ANY of the modes. Metallica is all (only) about the multiballs and the wizard modes (which are still super cool), but TWD has those in spades plus the normal modes with stacking.

TWD vs AC/DC
-------------------
Unlike Metallica, AC/DC doesn't have multiple wizard modes - it has one final wizard mode. It's great fun in TWD trying to focus on getting to Crossbow Frenzy, Siege, Horde, Terminus and Last Man Standing. That's 5 wizard modes versus 1.

AC/DC has "songs" vs modes - which are cool, but the big focus of all of them becomes to build up the song jackpot - so there is more of a sameness to them in that regard. Also, in AC/DC a few songs choices are much more lucrative, so the others are frequently ignored.

Cashing in the big Song Jackpot with multipliers is one of the biggest draws on AC/DC - but it can feel very disappointing when you repeatedly drain with big Song Jackpots. TWD provides the same thrill, but in a refined way. Building up the shot multiplier + playfield multiplier are very similar, with a controllable "Cash It In Now" or "Keep Building" choice - just like AC/DC. But with TWD, it's much more quickly built up and cashed in (or blown). Because it's much faster repeated, it just feels more fun and exciting versus getting pissed off. Currently, many people don't realize this potential/strategy in TWD IMO.

In Summary
-------------
- All 3 games have awesome stackable multiballs
- Metallica has awesome wizard modes - but skips normal modes
- AC/DC has a lot of cool "song" modes - but skips wizard modes (except 1)
- TWD has both awesome wizard modes and great normal modes that are more balanced/lucrative

IMO TWD is exactly where you end up after first refining AC/DC rules -> then refining Metallica rules -> then using that base of knowledge and creating a cumulative best of both. Thanks to Lyman (and John and Steve) for doing an awesome job on all 3 games!

Those thinking that TWD is only about bash toys and pops don't really understand the rules very well, or how to dial-in a game IMHO.

#2 3 years ago

continued...

Regarding layout - TWD has a much more unique playfield layout - which is better IMO - it feels very different than my other games. I love AC/DC and MET, but they are very typical fan layouts like many other popular games. TWD is a modified fan, and it's great to not have all my games feel the same. The shots are harder - so some might cry "no flow" - but it's just a game that takes more skill, which makes the shots more satisfying and gives it more longevity for me.

TWD has the most "game play changing" toys of all 3 by a wide margin.
I did not count toys that are only visual like "fish head tank", "rising cross" or "physical ball lock" (the ball lock could be argued I guess)...

TWD Toys
-----------
- 2 spinners
- 2 magnets
- Prison Bash - w/opening doors
- Well Walker Bash - w/ cool flip back action and lighting
- BG Bash Toy
- BG Lift ramp - modifies playfield layout depending on position
- Crossbow
- Walker Bombs - lockdown bar button
- Dual purpose Skill Shot with retro rollovers
- Drop target bank
- Woodbury "blocking" Drop target

Metallica Toys
----------------
- 2 spinners
- 2 magnets (3 if you count the hammer, but it doesn't affect game play really)
- Sparky Bash - w/ shaking head
- Snake Bash - w/ open/close jaw
- Captive ball
- Inline drops

AC/DC Toys
-------------
- 1 spinner
- Swinging Bell
- Lower playfield
- Cannon
- 2 Drop target banks
- VIP Passes - lockdown bar button
- Crossover ramp

#3 3 years ago

FYI - a list of the modes / multiballs in TWD
-------------------------------------------------
---- Normal Modes ---
- Barn - left loop spinner shot
- CDC - left ramp + other shots as mode progresses
- Riot - inner semi-loop
- Tunnel - right loop + all other shots
- Arena - right ramp

---- Multiballs ---
- Well Walker Multiball
- Prison Multiball
- Blood Bath Multiball w/ add a ball

--- Special Modes ---
- Bicycle girl
- Crossbow Frenzy

--- Wizard Modes ---
- Siege
- Horde (multiball)
- Terminus
- Last Man Standing (multiball)

Again - IMO all 3 are "A" games, but TWD leads the pack.

31
#4 3 years ago

I don't like to play TWD. I love to play MET and AC/DC. Thank goodness they are all just opinions.

#5 3 years ago

"Glayvin."

#6 3 years ago

They are all good games. Wouldn't take Met or Twd over my acdc though!

#7 3 years ago

In all seriousness, the recent update and threads like this make me want to try it again. I think from my plays on both pkayfield versions prior that this is not a love it at first run game. I'm willing to try it again, and see what I might be missing.

#9 3 years ago

The uniqueness of TWD layout is part of what made it great for me from day one. Lyman turned the potential into greatness.

When I want to take a breather I'll play my relatively easy Ac/dc typical fan layout. I really like it but no comparison to TWD imho.

#10 3 years ago

I think MET and even ACDC are easier on the eyes. That well walker is ugly (and awkward).

All are plenty fun!

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I don't like to play TWD. I love to play MET and AC/DC. Thank goodness they are all just opinions.

That's cool - I just wanted to discuss the merits/differences of these 3. It seems like a lot of the time people just talk up the 1 they own and knock the others. I own all three and am not trying to knock AC/DC or MET. IMO there have been a lot of misinformed opinions on TWD from people that don't know the rules or have played a little and disliked it because it was too difficult. I thought if people could read more of what makes it so good (for me) they might decide to give it a chance and find out how good it really is.

#12 3 years ago

I love playing TWD, but the well walker is the reason I'll never own one. Same thing with Wolverine on X-Men. Please, no more bash torsos.

It sounds like TWD would complement MET the same way that Shadow complements Congo. Shadow/TWD for modes, and Congo/MET for gradual progress to goals like Jungle Jackpot and Crank it Up.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from XpadreX:

In all seriousness, the recent update and threads like this make me want to try it again. I think from my plays on both pkayfield versions prior that this is not a love it at first run game. I'm willing to try it again, and see what I might be missing.

I would agree with this 100%, I was really on the fence with TWD when we first got it and had thought several times about selling or trading it for something different. With the early code it was really just a multiball game, you worked toward the mulitballs and that was it. With the latest code revisions you can put up good scores by just playing modes and totally ignoring the multiballs if you want and there are several things to work toward during game play.

But even for new players it still has the draw of bash toys and multiballs, I would say other than mousin around, TWD got the most play at our house on Thanksgiving.

It is still a very tough game but it has for sure made me a better player, worst part is that my wrists and hands hurt after playing it for a while from all the bumping and nudging to keep the ball in play.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

I love playing TWD, but the well walker is the reason I'll never own one. Same thing with Wolverine on X-Men. Please, no more bash torsos.
It sounds like TWD would complement MET the same way that Shadow complements Congo. Shadow/TWD for modes, and Congo/MET for gradual progress to goals like Jungle Jackpot and Crank it Up.

IMO there is no comparison between Wolverine bash and Well Walker bash.

On Xmen wolverine totally ruins the whole left side of the PF this is not the case on TWD. It doesn't get in the way of the shots on the right side of the PF and you can even hit the prison from the RH flipper around the well walker. You can shoot the right loop, right ramp and woodbury shot all on the right side of the PF.

Wolverine also screws up the feed from the pops, not the case with the Well Walker.

#15 3 years ago

I actually prefer ST over all of them.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

I actually prefer ST or all of them.

I like ST also and the flow is great on it but IMO it is just a bit too easy to get the wizard on it. Once you get Kobiashi Maru what else is there other than doing level 2 and 3 modes then going for it again. Again not taking anything away from ST, it normally gets more plays on it than TWD does at our house but TWD has much more to work towards.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

It sounds like TWD would complement MET the same way that Shadow complements Congo. Shadow/TWD for modes, and Congo/MET for gradual progress to goals like Jungle Jackpot and Crank it Up.

Actually, TWD has both - modes AND gradual progress to wizard modes - Crossbow Frenzy, Siege, Horde, Terminus and Last Man Standing!

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

I actually prefer ST or all of them.

I have a ST too and it's cool - but the modes bring it down for me (non-distinctive). For me ST is a notch below these 3.

#19 3 years ago

I gave you thumbs up t7 for taking the time to explain the differences between all the machines. That's a lot of effort.

All three machines are well received and most people have a heavy bias to their theme preferences. Also, some people can be quite picky on even slight pf/playing difficulty differences. So it is nice to see some discussion of the actual playfield and play differences.

I've played all three and here are my high-level general thoughts. I found metallica played fast like TWD and can be unforgiving as well, some cool stuff though I didn't find there to be as interesting of shots in design if I get a little picky. ACDC was more forgiving, with some interesting shots, though the lower playfield is a big letdown in game play. TWD plays fast and rewards good shots/punishes bad shots, it has some interesting shots. There is tons to shoot at and coding playability is wicked with a lot of ways to play it, lots of depth, and well-balanced scoring. TWD dots are the best I've ever seen.

Much of the personal preference for many people comes down to the theme appeal. They are all great games and if you are a met/acdc/zombie fan you will most likely prefer the respective game. In home use these machines stand out as well due to their depth. And TWD depth/coding is the best of the three imo for standing out in home use/ownership.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from Ven:

I like ST also and the flow is great on it but IMO it is just a bit too easy to get the wizard on it. Once you get Kobiashi Maru what else is there other than doing level 2 and 3 modes then going for it again. Again not taking anything away from ST, it normally gets more plays on it than TWD does at our house but TWD has much more to work towards.

Kobiashi Maru is the first sub-wizard mode after u beat tier 1 missions. Beat tier 2 missions and you can start Enterprise Amok. Beat tier 3 missions and u can start the true wizard mode Five Year Mission.

Not easy at all...only game I own that I haven't gotten to the wizard mode yet.

Edit...seriously Quartergrabber your hate for ST makes u down vote me for explaining the the game rules with no opinion stated!?! Get a grip bro. Fuuuuu*k some pinsiders are childish

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from T7:

These are compared quite a bit, so I thought I'd start a discussion thread. First - I own all 3 games in Premium form and think they are ALL GREAT. But TWD gets played the most by far. Here's why...
TWD vs Metallica
-------------------
There's one thing that really puts TWD ahead of MET for me: the TWD modes.
I'll explain - Metallica doesn't really have "normal" modes - much of the time you are working on starting a multiball or getting to some mini-wizard mode. TWD has 5 "normal" modes that you can get really good points on in any of them - and they are always only 1 or 2 drop target banks away (and it's only 3 drop targets). Add in the playfield and shot multipliers and every mode can be extremely exciting. Now add in strategical decisions on which mode to pick (by skill) and whether to play it solo or stacked with multiball(s).
Both games have awesome wizard modes, mini-wizard modes and multiballs, but TWD has much more going on when you are not in those. I prefer playing with friends or in competitions, and TWD keeps it really exciting because a player can catch up fast if they can nail ANY of the modes. Metallica is all (only) about the multiballs and the wizard modes (which are still super cool), but TWD has those in spades plus the normal modes with stacking.
TWD vs AC/DC
-------------------
Unlike Metallica, AC/DC doesn't have multiple wizard modes - it has one final wizard mode. It's great fun in TWD trying to focus on getting to Crossbow Frenzy, Siege, Horde, Terminus and Last Man Standing. That's 5 wizard modes versus 1.
AC/DC has "songs" vs modes - which are cool, but the big focus of all of them becomes to build up the song jackpot - so there is more of a sameness to them in that regard. Also, in AC/DC a few songs choices are much more lucrative, so the others are frequently ignored.
Cashing in the big Song Jackpot with multipliers is one of the biggest draws on AC/DC - but it can feel very disappointing when you repeatedly drain with big Song Jackpots. TWD provides the same thrill, but in a refined way. Building up the shot multiplier + playfield multiplier are very similar, with a controllable "Cash It In Now" or "Keep Building" choice - just like AC/DC. But with TWD, it's much more quickly built up and cashed in (or blown). Because it's much faster repeated, it just feels more fun and exciting versus getting pissed off. Currently, many people don't realize this potential/strategy in TWD IMO.
In Summary
-------------
- All 3 games have awesome stackable multiballs
- Metallica has awesome wizard modes - but skips normal modes
- AC/DC has a lot of cool "song" modes - but skips wizard modes (except 1)
- TWD has both awesome wizard modes and great normal modes that are more balanced/lucrative
IMO TWD is exactly where you end up after first refining AC/DC rules -> then refining Metallica rules -> then using that base of knowledge and creating a cumulative best of both. Thanks to Lyman (and John and Steve) for doing an awesome job on all 3 games!
Those thinking that TWD is only about bash toys and pops don't really understand the rules very well, or how to dial-in a game IMHO.

how long did it take to type all this?
Twd is great.

#23 3 years ago

Nice job T7. I couldn't agree more. I have TWDle, MET Pre and ACDC Pre.

Met was the long shot winner until the 1.4ish code dropped... Then TWD went totally nuts.

Now TWD is the machine I press start on every time.

#24 3 years ago

Well I'll have to agree to disagree with you. Both MET and AC/DC have far superior layouts IMO. Great code & more toys can not save a layout that I just don't enjoy so that's why I will always like both MET and AC/DC better. Glad your enjoying TWD though because that is what pinball is all about finding the pins you love and playing the hell out of them.

-1
#25 3 years ago

Haha, sure, ignore the layout completely and just talk about rules?

TWD pretty clearly has the worst layout of the 3, imo. The feed from the pops is a major problem, and even when "tuned", the pops is just plain annoying on that game. Similarly, the registering of both the prison shot with the doors open, and the head under the bicycle ramp are inconsistent at best. The crossbow shot just isn't fun. The bicycle ramp on premium is just too steep for a ramp that pops up, which causes the ball to get air and act weird.

The lack of criss-cross of the ramps means that it's hard to get the ball from one flipper to the other safely, and on a game as drainy as TWD, that's just frustrating as well.

The feed from hitting the prison shot, especially after the magnet grabs, gives far too many SDTM drains, as well.

Finally, the 3 drops on the left of TWD just aren't that fun/satisfying to hit for what is arguably the focus of the game with the rules in their current state, and they are super drainy even when you hit the shot. The rules are trying to get you to hit the drops all day and when you drain from successful shots on what you're supposed to do, it's just plain annoying.

That's not to say I don't think TWD is great, but it's rules are the best part, and the layout is the downside. It's just unfair to not consider layout when comparing these 3 games.

#26 3 years ago

The rules for TWD are awesome and deeper, but the layout and the playfield art are just blah IMO. Photoshopped images everywhere opposed to hand drawn art, the pops on TWD are fed way too much and the way the ball exits the pops suck, plus as mentioned above too much weight on the drops that are in a shitty location. Really love the theme and was hoping for better but I'll pass.

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from johnnyfive:

That's not to say I don't think TWD is great, but it's rules are the best part, and the layout is the downside. It's just unfair to not consider layout when comparing these 3 games.

The layout is great. Much better than Ac/dc or Met.

I get why people like easy, left ramp, right ramp, spinner, fan layout. Been there and done that too many times

Tell me again how the pops feed on my Ac/dc? Come on maaaaaannnnnnn. Horrible.

#28 3 years ago

I find TWD has the best layout of the three. Certainly the most unique. To each their own, different strokes for different folks.

OTOH criticism of pops, switches, ramps, toys etc are weak. They aren't a problem on many machines, and if they are they can be addressed with some minor adjustments and care taken in set-up. Like all pinball machines, TWD may need adjustments.

My met experience was on route and it wasn't set up very well imo. The drains and game play suffered, but I don't let basic set up issues color my perception, let alone use obvious setup/switch issues as criticisms of a machine.

#29 3 years ago

Valid points but in the end it's just your opinion. My opinion it's met ftw! Modes like found in Twd don't really make sense in a music pin. I'd think a better game to compare Twd against would be x-men. What this write up REALLY points out tho, is the fact you need more than 1 pinball machine! Taking that a step further I say more than 1 TYPE of pinball machine

#30 3 years ago

I agree. I'd love to have all three in a collection. And if I can I likely will.

Awesome MapleSyrup to have all three pins!

#31 3 years ago

Still havent played an updated TWD, just Pros with early code. Glad it got updated, but the layout isnt very fun to me and the theme integration is really weak compared to pretty much any other modern game.

#32 3 years ago

I own met and love the game and the fast layout but not every pin needs to be that way . I love variety and love games like cftbl, congo , bsd and the walking dead with out of the box layouts. Twd is plenty fast and flowing and has variety going for it also which is a plus imo. Not everything has to be a fan layout to be good

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from Bizzenya:

... and the theme integration is really weak compared to pretty much any other modern game.

I'll never understand why people say TWD has weak theme integration. It plays hard and fast, like a zombie apocalypse! There are now multiple show voiceovers options for the sounds, which rocks. It has barn, prison, riot, cdc, arena, well walker, bicycle girl, crossbow, fish tank heads, all from the show, all with great dots. Plus prem/le gi light show with a red bias at times for the zombie blood theme, and horde, lms, seige, terminus modes as inspired by the show. Amazing theme and show integration imo. Even without the show tie-in, it is a great zombie themed pin.

#34 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Tell me again how the pops feed on my Ac/dc? Come on maaaaaannnnnnn. Horrible.

The sheer number of threads on how to fix this alone should emphasize the problem pop bumpers are on ACDC.

The one TWD I played on out in the wild only put the ball SDTM one time on me, and that is a routed example.....

ACDC's one bash toy is done right: a swinging bell and feels well integrated into the game. Now let's look at Met: bash Sparky, bash the snake, bash the droptargets, bash the captive ball - holy cow. That got old fast for me.

TWD seems fresh to me. The layout feels different; the ramps are a bit more unique to me. The code fixes most magnet problems and gives the game some much needed depth.

This all being said, I owned MetPro and have ACDC LED Pro, so I don't feel I am spouting off randomly. Just something about TWD seems and feels fresh to me.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Now let's look at Met: bash Sparky, bash the snake, bash the droptargets, bash the captive ball - holy cow. That got old fast for me.

Bash the barn, bash the walker...

#36 3 years ago

Anytime I see a post that says this is why this game is better vs. another one...is a giant red flag to me that the popular opinion is against you.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Bash the barn, bash the walker...

And I quote:

Quoted from NPO:

TWD seems fresh to me. The layout feels different; the ramps are a bit more unique to me. The code fixes most magnet problems and gives the game some much needed depth.
This all being said, I owned MetPro and have ACDC LED Pro, so I don't feel I am spouting off randomly. Just something about TWD seems and feels fresh to me.

TWD does not REQUIRE you to go after the bash toys to progress. You can do other things to achieve the wizard modes. Met, OTOH, almost requires it. Yes, you can hit orbitals and ramp shots to get crosses, snakes, etc, but the 3 main multibals is a bash fest to get to each. Just feels like chopping wood to me.

And yes, same for IMVE (for those looking at my games), but once again: it feels fresh. It feels more dialed in. Meh *shoulder shrug*

#38 3 years ago

I never knew drop targets were considered bash toys now. Consider me enlightened. I guess pretty soon we will be bashing the ramps.

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I never knew drop targets were considered bash toys now. Consider me enlightened. I guess pretty soon we will be bashing the ramps.

No you silly goose. The ball flows through the ramps. Unless your aim is off, the ball flies through the ramps.

Just opinions guys. Put some Motrin on the butt hurt .

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Anytime I see a post that says this is why this game is better vs. another one...is a giant red flag to me that the popular opinion is against you.

Yea that must be why most are sold out and there are hardly any for sale used especially the prem . I called around a bunch of places and a few had one or 2 left and wanted crazy numbers due to high demand. Also another run in Dec/Jan is scheduled

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from T7:

FYI - a list of the modes / multiballs in TWD
-------------------------------------------------
---- Normal Modes ---
- Barn - left loop spinner shot
- CDC - left ramp + other shots as mode progresses
- Riot - inner semi-loop
- Tunnel - right loop + all other shots
- Arena - right ramp
---- Multiballs ---
- Well Walker Multiball
- Prison Multiball
- Blood Bath Multiball w/ add a ball
--- Special Modes ---
- Bicycle girl
- Crossbow Frenzy
--- Wizard Modes ---
- Siege
- Horde (multiball)
- Terminus
- Last Man Standing (multiball)
Again - IMO all 3 are "A" games, but TWD leads the pack.

Your opinion is valid in your world. Gosh darn it, that's all that matters.
B9707wjIUAAko0S.jpg

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I never knew drop targets were considered bash toys now. Consider me enlightened. I guess pretty soon we will be bashing the ramps.

Hey! I do that! In fact, ever since I got my IJ back, I'm an absolute PRO at hitting every f**king post rubber on the field. Can I hit the Jackpot ramp, like, EVER? No siree, Bob. But posts I can do 100 times out of 100.

-3
#43 3 years ago

For me, the artwork and theme of the machine are just as important as the gameplay. TWD just seemed to have too many of the ugly walkers all over the place for me to really like it. I also have small children so that would be a second strike for me. Is there any difference with the TWDLE except for ramp lifting allowing you to hit bicycle girl?

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

For me, the artwork and theme of the machine are just as important as the gameplay. TWD just seemed to have too many of the ugly walkers all over the place for me to really like it. I also have small children so that would be a second strike for me. Is there any difference with the TWDLE except for ramp lifting allowing you to hit bicycle girl?

Sounds to me like you're trying to convince yourself of negatives. Pinside generally disagrees fwiw.

TWD artwork has lots of love.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-walking-dead-photos

TWD with children for example.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twd-wow/page/8#post-2813529
The stuff on tv and in video games makes a TWD machine fairly pedestrian imo.

And TWD prem/le have many more differences from the pro other than the ramp lift/bg. Discussed many times on many threads. Easily found.

#45 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Hey! I do that! In fact, ever since I got my IJ back, I'm an absolute PRO at hitting every f**king post rubber on the field. Can I hit the Jackpot ramp, like, EVER? No siree, Bob. But posts I can do 100 times out of 100.

And posts are so much smaller than ramps. You are an awesome player.

#46 3 years ago

The play field artwork on twd is good and fits the theme well imo

#47 3 years ago

If you were to allow actual manufactured number AND sales to be the guide of which game is the favorite AC/DC would be the winner by a landslide. Resale results would probably put AC/DC first and MET second in terms of demand and how fast they sell (without much if any depreciation I might add). My opinion for fun factor alone concurs.

But as said, we all have our opinions and that's one of the things that makes this hobby so much darn fun.

#48 3 years ago

Just sold my TWDLE tonight. NO regrets! LUCY all the way!!!

#49 3 years ago

Must be nice having all 3... You lucky dog!

I'm so not a fan of the show so I was VERY surprised how much I liked TWD. The shots are so cool, a bit like FGY. I'm not saying it feels like FGY but I'm saying it's got some goofy neat unfamiliar shots to it which FGY has IMO.

My only gripe is the music. That shit stresses me out! One day I will grab a TWD & when I do I'm changing that grating music package.

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from TaTa:

Just sold my TWDLE tonight. NO regrets! LUCY all the way!!!

That's great! I'll bet the new owner is just as happy!

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