Before I start, I am a Hobbit owner and absolutely LOVE the game. The new code is amazing and there is frankly no better value in pinball on the second hand market than Hobbit. I think JJP does amazing work and sets the bar incredibly high but here’s where I struggle. Every license has been a miss. Including Hobbit. I am desperately rooting for JJP to time the market right for once and grow some real success but I am very concerned looking forward particularly on Toy Story and here’s why.

Bad Timing - Once again they are a day late and a dollar short (or years late). Yes, there’s a new movie coming out but this is an ancient franchise in today’s market and by the time the pin is announced (much less released) the enthusiasm for anything Toy Story will have died down. Just like Hobbit.

Your kids and grandkids have no attention span - Those looking to provide this game as a family bonding experience for their kids or grandkids are doomed. Kids have ZERO attention span and after 5 minutes would rather go back to the video game of the week than to repeatedly play the same pin. Your kids and grandkids will not care and not be thankful and not be impressed any more than if you bought them a $60 PS4 game.

Toy Story hasn’t aged well - Toy Story movies, particularly the first and even the second have aged about as well as the “money for nothing” video by Dire Straits. Very poor video quality will not make for good background like Hobbit. It feels extremely dated. Using clips from all the movies will appear jarring and disjointed given the visual disparity over the years.

There isn’t any nostalgia - yes it’s a great heartfelt series but it as zero nostalgia for any era or any particular product line or soundtrack or ANYTHING that drives the feeling of nostalgia the way franchises like TMNT, BTTF, Star Wars, etc do. It is generic in every sense which drives no nostalgic connection to anyone or anything.

The sentiment is lost on the audience - what is the theme or actual message of a Toy Story pin? A warm hearted tear jerker / comedy cartoon does not provide any sort of narrative that remotely aligns with or easily translates to a pinball machine. Creating a pin around this license requires dumbing it down to non-story based charater / identity driven modes and themes. No one playing pinball is looking for that “awweee, so cute!!” Moment or that “wow this means so much I’m going to go home and reflect on my life and relationships” type moment...both are what the movies are about. Great for film, pointless for pinball.

The demographic is all wrong - the audience that has any tie to this franchise is traditionally not in the age group for most pinball buyers unless you are one of the older crowd who wants to buy this for your kids or grandkids and we have already touched on that topic above. This theme has no place in a “barcade” (I hate that term but you know what I’m referring to). The themes that resonate are obvious...familiar bands, comic franchises, 80s throwback themes, nostalgia driven themes, etc....of which Toy Story fits none.

I only bring this up because I am concerned for JJP. I want them to succeed and pray to god the GNR rumors are true, it would be their first chance to really hit the mark. Toy Story is just another miss of a theme I fear.

Enjoying the responses guys, yes this is just my opinion of course and not everyone has to agree. Funny how one poster asked about GNR reunion ever happening....ummm what rock have you been under, GNR has been touring for almost two years as the original (well, almost totally original if you want to be technical) lineup.

GNR may not be everyone’s cup of tea but I only brought it up because it’s a strong JJP rumor given slash’s repeated comments lately and is as timeless of a theme as JJP has attempted outside of WOZ. It’s also no secret why GNR is the most expensive Data East machine by a mile.

38 and have three kids aged 6,4 and 3 months. The kids love Toy Story movies for the record.

You are comparing apples and oranges there. While Wizard of Oz was certainly filmed decades ago in a much different era in terms of technology and special effects, it is still live actors in front of an actual camera while toy story was computer rendered three dimensional storytelling in its infancy. That technology has come so incredibly far and it is not a medium like videogames where the classic look And feel provide a sense of nostalgia to the viewer, they merely just look outdated and poor. There is nobody walking around clamoring for new three-dimensional cartoons stylized on late 90s and early 2000’s technology. Somethings just age out and this is a very strong example of that. And again, by the time they got to toy story 3 and now this new one, the technology hascaught up and been noticeably impactful to the series. The issue there however is that watching them in sequence provides for a level of discontinuity that rivals watching the Star Wars movies sequentially.

I completely agree with you on the brand of toy story being a long-term continual success but that doesn’t necessarily translate to a pinball machine which goes back to my points above regarding the demographics and intended market. Every kid is running around with toys story pajamas and action figures or dolls but Those kids are not buyers or the market for a toy story pinball it is of course the middle-aged man with money to spend. I could reference 100 other wildly successful children’s brands and franchises that would make absolutely no sense as a pinball theme.

Further making toy story trend downward as a pinball title is the inevitable swing and miss of market alignment with the films release next year. JJP is batting 0.000 with timing on their releases and there is no indication whatsoever that they will be able to time the market right with toy story unless they pull a rabbit out of a hat.

Nobody is asking for a family themed pin. How well did Shrek do? Exactly...

There is a reason Stern is smart enough to avoid any and all of even the most tempting juggernaut family themes as licenses for future games. Stern does Sopranos, Marvel action films, Iron Maiden, Metallica, walking dead, hell, even world poker tour, etc - all “adult oriented” themes.

Look back at data east, sega or BW for further proof. You’ve got action movies all day long, not a single “family theme” in sight besides maybe Rocky and Bullwinkle or Popeye which are not exactly popular and on the low end of the hobby.

Yup, me and my kids love the movie, no disagreements there...BUT...that has nothing to do with it making a relevant or good pinball theme...

Again - this discussion isn’t about the relevance of Toy Story as a brand in our culture, that is indisputable of course. The issues I laid out are specifically addressing why i feel it has very little relevance and alignment with the pinball market and will be a tough sell. The markets and demographics just don’t align in my opinion. Not everything, regardless of how popular, will make a good pinball license. How about Hatchimals? American Girl? LEGO (NOT licensed LEGO themes, just generic LEGO)? There are many massive brands that have amazing market penetration but would make horrible pinballs. If that theme park had 10 Toy Story pins lined up in a cafe or gift shop or something I bet most would sit idle the majority of the time other than the curious middle aged man who stumbled over for a single game.

Well just look at the numbers and look at everyone (including your own) collection. Look at going prices. What machines sell out? What machines hold value better than others? What Stern's are being "vaulted"? What game rumors or themes constantly get discussed? Those statistics don't lie and we fall right in line as a group of hobbyists more often than not.

If JJP did their spin on a franchise like BTTF, it would be their best seller by a mile. Probably outsell all of their titles minus WOZ combined! And provide a revenue stream for years to come or as long as they would be smart enough to maintain the license. Toy Story will limp out to some immediate fanfare, lose momentum, take a hit on the second hand market and ultimately not resonate with the bulk of players and collectors and operators...just like Hobbit...just like DI...just like POTC this time next year when the prices dip down on the second hand market. JJP just needs for ONCE to hit the theme jackpot. Toy Story is not it. Frankly neither is GNR or Willy Wonka. But as a huge fan of JJP products in general, I will continue to root for them!

For every norm there is an exception and 6 to 10-year-olds who go and play pinball are by far the exception. Most 6 to 10-year-olds have likely never even been in the same room as a pinball machine let alone travel to shows with their father. My six-year-old loves to play my machines as well and has gotten a better hang on how to actually play in the last year or so Which has been super fun to watch occur naturally. But we all have to admit and recognize that we are the ones driving their interest and engagement in pinball not the other way around. 99% of children and frankly not a much smaller percentage for adults don’t have the pinball skill to get deep into a game and really experience much of anything so any deep integration like the hobbit for example would be totally lost on young children.

Not shocking, this is pinside after all. But I am pleasantly surprised by how this dialogue has been overall very civil regardless of the stupid post voting functionality. There is hope for this group yet! We CAN actually have a discussion ripe with differing opinions and for the most part keep it civil!

I got barbecued for this thread three years ago and it seems the majority of what I had initially said here is playing out before our eyes. I hadn’t expected the wild cards of 2022 pinball price escalation drama or a major step backward from innovation and technology like we saw in GNR but I have to say this thread actually aged pretty well all things considered!