No newbie should go and tell longtime hobbyists that they are “doing it wrong.” Many seem to call out a community they don’t understand and most of these people think pinball was invented in 1996 and don’t appreciate classic EM and SS games.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:i only hate it when newbs put colored LED's in their GI sockets. They don't know any better, and see other newbs doing it, thinking it is the way. Until you figure out you can't see the ball anymore. but then the damage is done and most are too lazy to change it to white after doing all the work to make it colorshitfest in the first place.
We know.
And I am glad you do it. Wow do you ever make people on Facebook angry.
Quoted from alexmogil:We know.
And I am glad you do it. Wow do you ever make people on Facebook angry.
Ha
Neo is what we call a “one issue voter.”
If there’s no “noobs” there wouldn’t be any “barcades” . They keep the hobby alive .
What 60 year old collector is going out to bars .
Their collection unfortunately dies with them .
Quoted from HC2016:If there’s no “noobs” there wouldn’t be any “barcades” . They keep the hobby alive .
What 60 year old collector is going out to bars .
Their collection unfortunately dies with them .
I take it you’ve never been to pinball league nights at a barcade.
Quoted from Coindork:I take it you’ve never been to pinball league nights at a barcade.
nope , never have .
My experience at least in NY on any given night . NOT leagues , is a young crowd getting into pinball . That’s a good thing .
Quoted from HC2016:My experience at least in NY on any given night . NOT leagues , is a young crowd getting into pinball . That’s a good thing .
Here is how pricing works in a nutshell
Stern JJP etc...tease new pins with themes we salivate over over a period of time knowing regardless of code or minor issues(mostly stern) they will sell out, when a pin has insane demand (GNR JJP) they also raise prices (and why not ) to compensate most will sell a few pins to pay for it, again raising used prices,
The main issue with noobs is overpaying because they lack experience, but that contributes to the ever increasing prices, there are distinct prices levels for condition, but if a person lacks experience they are going to overpay
Add to that , noobs don't usually know the first thing about maintenance or repairs, it's why alot of collectors don't want to sell to noobs, after sale expectations or entitlement to lifetime service or midnight phone calls is ...... Annoying to put it mildly
Quoted from alexmogil:We know.
And I am glad you do it. Wow do you ever make people on Facebook angry.
Yeah we know who you are... You keep makin that same point over and over and over Like whippin a dead horse... sheesh. 
Quoted from CrazyLevi:That’s true.
The one-two punch of him and Radio Gary even drove ME out of there.
The good ole days. Don't forget Tommy T
Quoted from Doctor6:Man, poor dude asked questions and you all attack him. Buncha cranky fucks should be thrilled new people are taking an interest in the hobby.
You obviously don't get it .
You have to look dominant and look cool over someone who doesn't know the subject .
To make yourself look better , the more you are insulting , the more importance you put on yourself .
It's not about encouraging a new generation , it's about defending your ageing position .
You've been on pinside for 12 years you should know better 
IMG_20210309_231539 (resized).jpgQuoted from dc2010:Add to that , noobs don't usually know the first thing about maintenance or repairs, it's why alot of collectors don't want to sell to noobs, after sale expectations or entitlement to lifetime service or midnight phone calls is ...... Annoying to put it mildly
I totally get that. Absolutely a pain. But we all were there, too. Did any of us know a ton when we first got into pinball? Lord knows I didn't. Thank goodness I had chad to help me when I was new. But with that said, there are plenty of old timers that STILL don't know a lot about fixing their machines. A surprising amount.
Quoted from Toymaker:Ok, so we just recently bought a house and as a result our first pin. Been wanting one since I knew we would have a basement/rec area and finally settled on one with wife.
One thing I am noticing is alot of complaints about all the "new" buyers coming out of the year of COVID and the stupid prices as a result.
Seems alot of people are missing half the equation here...yes, there are some uneducated buyers paying way too much for some low grade EM machines based on "nostalgia" - at the same time you gotta have sellers trying to dupe them.
The real problem as always is uneducated or unscrupulous sellers. You seem to have a ton of sellers who bought a machine 20 years ago...they jump on eBay and see someone with a fully restored/shopped machine asking 4k - do that must mean there's is worth at least that - better ask 5 for "negotiations" - of course they miss that there are maybe 5 or 10 fully restored/mint versions of that title and 1400 low grade examples - or that a full restoration took 2k in parts and a couple of hundred hours - they just know that XYZ Pinball advertised the same machine they own and they don't want a dime less.
I'll be the first to admit - I started out wanting a Kiss pin - and I will state right now - I would NEVER buy one for me. If you gave me one - I'd sell to the first reasonable buyer. They command a premium - but why pay more than 3500 for an old machine when at the same price point there are many more reliable. If you really want a rock theme - plenty of Zep pins that will hit the used market in a couple of years I suspect...its been a hot seller, but eventually something new will come out and those will lose interest.
At the same time - wanna stop seeing the post of dreamers asking 20k for 12-14k titles...QUIT REACTING to them! Just like YouTube influences- the more view/reaction- the more they get pushed to top of the feed.
The hobby is no different than classic cars...and it killed it for many. Someone sees a '68 Camaro roll across Barret-Jackson at 3am on ESPN - the hammer falls at 80k...now someone thinks EVERY '68 Cameron is worth 80k....WRONG. Restored, pristine trailer queens are worth 60-80k...your puttied up mismatch is worth 20 on a good day to the uneducated buyer maybe...realistically 15k. But because someone saw one sell for more...they suspect they are getting a bargain.
If fools want to waste their money chasing garbage - let them. There's way too much decent stuff out there to clean up on at fair prices. Using the car analogy - i remember a local guy back in the early 90s...when everyone else was chasing those late 60s "gems" - he built quite the collection of late 70s/early 80s Cameron and Firebirds and a few select Novas. Wanna guess who cleaned up come 2010 when he sold out.
We were all newbies once, and I have actually been encouraged by how friendly people are here and helpful when you actually ask for help. If you ask for help, post pictures of your issue, and troubleshoot as directed by the crew you will get invaluable free repair help. I welcome newbies, and have now sold to 3 separate first time pin buyers and given a 1 hour overview on pinball ownership to each of them. However, I agree with Levi in that there are a lot of people who ask the same questions... I did too. The one thing you can do to really tick a seller off, is argue with them on price or condition when something is newly listed. I usually get 30+ offers when I list a desirable machine, some at full price, mostly trades. Inevitably there will be someone, usually someone new who tries to beat me up on price... If I have a $6,000 offer on my Total Nuclear Annihilation, I won't sell it to you for $4800 because that's how much you think its worth. I will also have little to no sympathy for you complaining about something breaking on your machine, even if it is new. It is part of the hobby. I'll happily help you fix it but I'm not really interested in "Stern Sucks, JJP Sucks, Spooky Sucks".
Pinside people generally love pinball and will happily help you fix your pin, talk you through maintenance, recommend a pin for a newbie, or patiently wait for Levi to post his awesome "pinball bubble" response.
Quoted from Chosen_S:Ah yes, thank you.... Youve really got me thinking about Herman, what about Chairy from Pee-Wee Herman? That’s a great chair, it talks and all kinds of stuff, I think it can even eat a person possibly!?
[quoted image]
Yeah, but think of what Pee Wee was doing on that chair!
Quoted from Doctor6:I totally get that. Absolutely a pain. But we all were there, too. Did any of us know a ton when we first got into pinball? Lord knows I didn't. Thank goodness I had chad to help me when I was new. But with that said, there are plenty of old timers that STILL don't know a lot about fixing their machines. A surprising amount.
I think most pinsiders are helpful and not
assholes , because naturally most people want to help .
Quoted from CrazyLevi:They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to
Pot, meet kettle
Quoted from nicoga3000:Ive only been into this hobby for 7 or so years. But I feel like I'm already approaching #4 in Levi's post.
I’ve only been in this hobby for 7 or so years. But I feel like I’m still a noob standing outside the club of cool kids, that don’t want any new member to join.
If your new to this hobby, just stick it out, don’t get discouraged by all the grumpy old men. There’s room for everyone, you don’t have to join the lemon party.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:Pot, meet kettle
Came up with this zinger ourself did we?
This is the kind of fresh material we need around here!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It begs the question, did analogies even exist before the invention of the car? Or were people dumbfounded, saying things like “butter churns are like...um...uhh...gosh nabbit!!!! Someone better invent some kind of horseless carriage so I can complete this sentence!!”
“Butter churn”. There’s a lot of funny shit in this post but this brought tears for me.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:
1. The poorer / more frugal types like to announce themselves with "I am brand new to this hobby and and the only games I'm interested in owning is a mint condition MB, MM, or TZ, or a brand new GNR. WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE? Is this a hobby for rich people?" which disrespects not only the hundreds of pinball machines that aren’t the 4 they want, but also the overwhelming percentage of hobbyists here who are not rich.
2. They post the same dumb threads over and over, seriously thinking they are the only geniuses to ever wonder which games are overrated or underrated or what theme we'd like to see or why the Pinside 100 isn't to their liking, or to ponder whether or not we are in a bubble and, in fact, if it will burst.
3. They crowd up an already crowded hobby driving up prices and further sucking up all the games.
4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.
5. They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to "pinball machines are expensive" or "why won't someone sell me a MM cheap?" We really don't care about the minute details of your life or the complex intellectual process behind your conclusion that "games shouldn't dimple" or "you see, pinball is kinda like cars..."
6. THey tend to be the worst fanboys. You rarely see a 15 year vet camping out in a Stern thread whining about how much better a JJP game is or vice versa as if their life depends on convincing the rest of the world of it. It's always people who have been around 3 years and think we give a shit about their unfettered todyism and banal cheerleading.
7. It'll come to me and I'll add it in here. Edit - yeah, the fucking cargument. Why are human beings universally unable to compare anything to anything else that isn't a car? It begs the question, did analogies even exist before the invention of the car? Or were people dumbfounded, saying things like “butter churns are like...um...uhh...gosh nabbit!!!! Someone better invent some kind of horseless carriage so I can complete this sentence!!”
8. They like to rage vent with some 2,000 word post about an ebay or craigslist deal gone sour, as if it hasnt happened to all of us a dozen times, or as if any of us give a shit about the boring details or as if the 65-year old woman who wronged them will actually come here to read it.
9. Like most people, they almost always think they are funny, and like most people, they aren't.
10. Constant demands for code updates and an almost universal lack of understanding of how business works, exemplified by demands that "Stern should cut their prices $1,000!" or "Why can't pinball machines cost less, but have way more stuff in them, also they should be way more complicated, but also be way more reliable!" You know, insane shit like that which is either impossible or would put any pinball company under in about a month.
I usually don't read long posts ether, hell I rarely comment either, but this was spot on. Well done Levi!
Quoted from Toymaker:I'll be the first to admit - I started out wanting a Kiss pin - and I will state right now - I would NEVER buy one for me. If you gave me one - I'd sell to the first reasonable buyer. They command a premium - but why pay more than 3500 for an old machine when at the same price point there are many more reliable. If you really want a rock theme - plenty of Zep pins that will hit the used market in a couple of years I suspect...its been a hot seller, but eventually something new will come out and those will lose interest.
So, you want something but wont buy it because it's what you consider expensive or overpriced, though that may be the market value?
And I doubt it's just the "rock theme"...I would never in a million years own a Zep pin, but have both KISS and Metallica.
Using your car analogy, why pay a premium for a '69 Mach 1 when you can get a more reliable 2020 Ford Escort....
Quoted from CaptainNeo:i only hate it when newbs put colored LED's in their GI sockets. They don't know any better, and see other newbs doing it, thinking it is the way. Until you figure out you can't see the ball anymore. but then the damage is done and most are too lazy to change it to white after doing all the work to make it colorshitfest in the first place.
Or you figure out that it really doesn’t matter if you add pin stadium or some spotlights. This is like what you always post about. To change out GI not that hard. I laugh as I have seen you post the same thing time after time again abs again just like a newbie. Yet we complain about newbies.
Quoted from HC2016:If there’s no “noobs” there wouldn’t be any “barcades” . They keep the hobby alive .
What 60 year old collector is going out to bars .
Their collection unfortunately dies with them .
you are so wrong
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Came up with this zinger ourself did we?
This is the kind of fresh material we need around here!
Quoted from Luckydogg420:I’ve only been in this hobby for 7 or so years. But I feel like I’m still a noob standing outside the club of cool kids, that don’t want any new member to join.
I don't think its that no one wants anyone to join (well in some cases probably ha), but more that posts like this are the exact reason people get crabby about new people. We don't need someone who has been in the hobby for 15 minutes writing some manifesto about a topic that's been beat to death for 20 years.
That's not to say we can't discuss things, but I think anyone, not just new people, screaming something from the rooftops as gospel is annoying, let alone when its been done ad nauseum.
This thread is like me watching 2 episodes of a cooking show and busting into some 5 star restaurant that's been open for 4 decades yelling "WHY DON'T YOU GUYS JUST SELL FANCY TACOS AND TRUFFLE FRIES HERE THEY ARE CHEAPER AND PEOPLE LOVE THEM HOW COME YOU IDIOTS CLEARLY DIDNT THINK OF THIS UNTIL I TOLD YOU JUST NOW".
Quoted from grantopia:This thread is like me watching 2 episodes of a cooking show and busting into some 5 star restaurant that's been open for 4 decades yelling "WHY DON'T YOU GUYS JUST SELL FANCY TACOS AND TRUFFLE FRIES HERE THEY ARE CHEAPER AND PEOPLE LOVE THEM HOW COME YOU IDIOTS CLEARLY DIDNT THINK OF THIS UNTIL I TOLD YOU JUST NOW".
Nice restaurgument!
Quoted from Palmer:Nice restaurgument!
In my defense I'm super hungry and now I just want fries so it backfired pretty hard.
I definitely fall into the noob classification, less than a year into the hobby. Like the OP I wanted my first machine to be a Stern KISS , specifically a NIB LE. I looked high and low but finally found one in a distributor’s private collection last August. I paid a hefty price but didn’t care as I got the pin I wanted in the condition I wanted,....then I proceeded down the same road with NIB Metallica, NIB ACDC, NIB Deadpool LE etc.
Noobs with disposable income like myself are certainly driving up prices for everybody. We want what we want and are willing to pay the sellers price to get it, no matter how inflated. It’s similar to the real estate market out here in California. Availability is slim and competition is fierce, it’s not uncommon to have to overbid to get the house you want or the pin you want these days. I’m just glad I don’t have any desire for a JJP Pirates, haha!
Quoted from CaptainNeo:i only hate it when newbs put colored LED's in their GI sockets. They don't know any better, and see other newbs doing it, thinking it is the way. Until you figure out you can't see the ball anymore. but then the damage is done and most are too lazy to change it to white after doing all the work to make it colorshitfest in the first place.
I've seen way too many clown puked games come up lately, and then when somebody points out how bad it looks the OP or a bunch of other noobs all band together to clutch their pearls about how "it looks better in person" or "its my (their) game and they can do whatever they want with it" ect. NO. It looks bad and you should feel bad!
Quoted from alexmogil:We know.
And I am glad you do it. Wow do you ever make people on Facebook angry.
Lol two of my greatest joys are seeing Neo rile people on FB groups and RareHero shitting on ghostbusters in FB groups. Levi gets people pretty salty in the groups too.
Tbh noobs on pinside are usually fine, its the FB noobs that are truly annoying. "help my flipper doesn't come down all the way what is the issue?"
Quoted from Luckydogg420:Pot, meet kettle
You bitch about a 2000 word essay by writing a 2000 word essay. When did you get your 2000 word approval card, and how long do you have to into pinball before were allowed to write one?
It fucken disgusts me to se the same parade of people shitting on someone new to the hobby. I don’t agree with the 1st post, but I also didn’t find the need to tear him a new one. And 100 thumbs up, shows to me how little interest the old crowd has in being inviting to new people. It’s abrasive comments like Levi’s 2000 word essay that’s likely to shut people up, and drive them away from pinball, or pinside.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:You bitch about a 2000 word essay by writing a 2000 word essay. When did you get your 2000 word approval card, and how long do you have to into pinball before were allowed to write one?
It fucken disgusts me to se the same parade of people shitting on someone new to the hobby. I don’t agree with the 1st post, but I also didn’t find the need to tear him a new one. And 100 thumbs up, shows to me how little interest the old crowd has in being inviting to new people. It’s abrasive comments like Levi’s 2000 word essay that’s likely to shut people up, and drive them away from pinball, or pinside.
Aww come on lighten up. Anybody "driven away" from Pinside by my rant is so emotionally fragile they wouldn't have made it past the first "bubble burst" thread here anyway.
This thread is gold! I feel like Im in high school again! Can someone talk shit on me so its more nostalgic for me? I have no idea what this post was about FYI. Tldr
Quoted from Luckydogg420:And 100 thumbs up, shows to me how little interest the old crowd has in being inviting to new people.
I gave it a thumbs up because I thought it was funny. It is all in what filter you read it through I guess.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Aww come on lighten up. Anybody "driven away" from Pinside by my rant is so emotionally fragile they wouldn't have made it past the first "bubble burst" thread here anyway.
There’s been more then once I’ve thought, fuck this place, it’s not worth my time. Fortunately for me the good experience outweigh the bad, but more often then not it feels like a place that has a huge hurtle to jump before you’re accepted. I don’t ever feel like I’ve passed this hurtle. I just don’t give a fuck what randos online think about me anymore. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s, it may be wrong, but this should be a place for learning. Not insulting.
Quoted from paul_8788:I gave it a thumbs up because I thought it was funny. It is all in what filter you read it through I guess.
Do you think the noob that just had 100 people jump on a post against him think it was as equally funny?
I thought it was funny too, but I didn’t need to upvote a post slamming some new member to the site.
Just my 2cent.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:There’s been more then once I’ve thought, fuck this place, it’s not worth my time. Fortunately for me the good experience outweigh the bad, but more often then not it feels like a place that has a huge hurtle to jump before you’re accepted. I don’t ever feel like I’ve passed this hurtle. I just don’t give a fuck what randos online think about me anymore. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s, it may be wrong, but this should be a place for learning. Not insulting.
Take it up with OP - who may or may not be a troll as we've never heard from him before or since.
He posed a question, and I answered it, managing to get some laughs in the process, it's pretty much as simple as that. You are the one turning it into an afterschool special. The idea that this thread is going to scare people away from the hobby seems delusional.
I found the hobby a little intimidating. My best advise is to not use buying and selling as your way into the hobby. Start of by playing in tournaments at local barcades. That's where you're going to meet people that enjoy the hobby and just want to play some games. Buying and selling is where things can be the most toxic. That and when you put in color LEDs in your general illumination or backglass around Neo.
PS: I did read above that barcades are only for "newbies" but I don't think that's the case at all. The lack of public play is has put a real damper on my intereste in the hobby. I can't wait until COVID is behind us so I can head back out there.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Aww come on lighten up.
As a teacher, I saw this response coming.
Quoted from newovad:As a teacher, I saw this response coming.
As a teacher, what did you think of my rant? How was the writing?
Mark Twain ~ "Better to remain silent & thought a fool than to open one's mouth & remove all doubt."
Quoted from CrazyLevi:As a teacher, what did you think of my rant? How was the writing?
I would guess it doesn't matter what I thought and that you don't much care.
Quoted from newovad:I would guess it doesn't matter what I thought and that you don't much care.
Why did you think it was important to tell us you are a teacher if you weren't interested in sharing your expertise?
I'm a writer, and I just give it away for free here!
Quoted from Luckydogg420:There’s been more then once I’ve thought, fuck this place, it’s not worth my time. Fortunately for me the good experience outweigh the bad, but more often then not it feels like a place that has a huge hurtle to jump before you’re accepted. I don’t ever feel like I’ve passed this hurtle. I just don’t give a fuck what randos online think about me anymore. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s, it may be wrong, but this should be a place for learning. Not insulting.
Lots of fun can be had by those people that don't take them selves too seriously .....I appreciate the acerbic tone to Levi much more than the virtue signaling of the quoted......but that's just my opinion ...
If you want pinball tech info.....this place can help too by the way...
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Aww come on lighten up. Anybody "driven away" from Pinside by my rant is so emotionally fragile they wouldn't have made it past the first "bubble burst" thread here anyway.
Yes sir.
Problem is our emotionally fragile country. This guy lost his job now??
Screenshot_20210309-125601_DuckDuckGo (resized).jpgWanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-the-hate-for-newbies/page/2?hl=spyroftw and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Sparta, NJ
Kitchener, ON
Prague