(Topic ID: 289528)

Why the hate for newbies

By Toymaker

7 months ago


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  • 240 posts
  • 122 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by swanng
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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    There are 240 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
    -28
    #1 7 months ago

    Ok, so we just recently bought a house and as a result our first pin. Been wanting one since I knew we would have a basement/rec area and finally settled on one with wife.

    One thing I am noticing is alot of complaints about all the "new" buyers coming out of the year of COVID and the stupid prices as a result.

    Seems alot of people are missing half the equation here...yes, there are some uneducated buyers paying way too much for some low grade EM machines based on "nostalgia" - at the same time you gotta have sellers trying to dupe them.

    The real problem as always is uneducated or unscrupulous sellers. You seem to have a ton of sellers who bought a machine 20 years ago...they jump on eBay and see someone with a fully restored/shopped machine asking 4k - do that must mean there's is worth at least that - better ask 5 for "negotiations" - of course they miss that there are maybe 5 or 10 fully restored/mint versions of that title and 1400 low grade examples - or that a full restoration took 2k in parts and a couple of hundred hours - they just know that XYZ Pinball advertised the same machine they own and they don't want a dime less.

    I'll be the first to admit - I started out wanting a Kiss pin - and I will state right now - I would NEVER buy one for me. If you gave me one - I'd sell to the first reasonable buyer. They command a premium - but why pay more than 3500 for an old machine when at the same price point there are many more reliable. If you really want a rock theme - plenty of Zep pins that will hit the used market in a couple of years I suspect...its been a hot seller, but eventually something new will come out and those will lose interest.

    At the same time - wanna stop seeing the post of dreamers asking 20k for 12-14k titles...QUIT REACTING to them! Just like YouTube influences- the more view/reaction- the more they get pushed to top of the feed.

    The hobby is no different than classic cars...and it killed it for many. Someone sees a '68 Camaro roll across Barret-Jackson at 3am on ESPN - the hammer falls at 80k...now someone thinks EVERY '68 Cameron is worth 80k....WRONG. Restored, pristine trailer queens are worth 60-80k...your puttied up mismatch is worth 20 on a good day to the uneducated buyer maybe...realistically 15k. But because someone saw one sell for more...they suspect they are getting a bargain.

    If fools want to waste their money chasing garbage - let them. There's way too much decent stuff out there to clean up on at fair prices. Using the car analogy - i remember a local guy back in the early 90s...when everyone else was chasing those late 60s "gems" - he built quite the collection of late 70s/early 80s Cameron and Firebirds and a few select Novas. Wanna guess who cleaned up come 2010 when he sold out.

    27
    #2 7 months ago

    What pin did you end up with? Or did I miss it in your post?

    12
    #3 7 months ago

    Cargument

    13
    #4 7 months ago
    Quoted from Toymaker:

    Ok, so we just recently bought a house and as a result our first pin. Been wanting one since I knew we would have a basement/rec area and finally settled on one with wife.
    One thing I am noticing is alot of complaints about all the "new" buyers coming out of the year of COVID and the stupid prices as a result.
    Seems alot of people are missing half the equation here...yes, there are some uneducated buyers paying way too much for some low grade EM machines based on "nostalgia" - at the same time you gotta have sellers trying to dupe them.
    The real problem as always is uneducated or unscrupulous sellers. You seem to have a ton of sellers who bought a machine 20 years ago...they jump on eBay and see someone with a fully restored/shopped machine asking 4k - do that must mean there's is worth at least that - better ask 5 for "negotiations" - of course they miss that there are maybe 5 or 10 fully restored/mint versions of that title and 1400 low grade examples - or that a full restoration took 2k in parts and a couple of hundred hours - they just know that XYZ Pinball advertised the same machine they own and they don't want a dime less.
    I'll be the first to admit - I started out wanting a Kiss pin - and I will state right now - I would NEVER buy one for me. If you gave me one - I'd sell to the first reasonable buyer. They command a premium - but why pay more than 3500 for an old machine when at the same price point there are many more reliable. If you really want a rock theme - plenty of Zep pins that will hit the used market in a couple of years I suspect...its been a hot seller, but eventually something new will come out and those will lose interest.
    At the same time - wanna stop seeing the post of dreamers asking 20k for 12-14k titles...QUIT REACTING to them! Just like YouTube influences- the more view/reaction- the more they get pushed to top of the feed.
    The hobby is no different than classic cars...and it killed it for many. Someone sees a '68 Camaro roll across Barret-Jackson at 3am on ESPN - the hammer falls at 80k...now someone thinks EVERY '68 Cameron is worth 80k....WRONG. Restored, pristine trailer queens are worth 60-80k...your puttied up mismatch is worth 20 on a good day to the uneducated buyer maybe...realistically 15k. But because someone saw one sell for more...they suspect they are getting a bargain.
    If fools want to waste their money chasing garbage - let them. There's way too much decent stuff out there to clean up on at fair prices. Using the car analogy - i remember a local guy back in the early 90s...when everyone else was chasing those late 60s "gems" - he built quite the collection of late 70s/early 80s Cameron and Firebirds and a few select Novas. Wanna guess who cleaned up come 2010 when he sold out.

    You’ll understand when you’re older.

    47
    #5 7 months ago

    Carguments is one reason
    Long drawn out posts telling us shit we've already heard for a decade will also do it

    #6 7 months ago

    Stoopid noobs man

    -2
    #7 7 months ago

    Probably some of the grumpiness is from those collectors who are ticked that an absolute N00b snagged one of their 'grail' pins - and maybe at a lower price than they were expecting.

    The more the merrier!

    Except on PinSide.

    148
    #8 7 months ago

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:

    1. The poorer / more frugal types like to announce themselves with "I am brand new to this hobby and and the only games I'm interested in owning is a mint condition MB, MM, or TZ, or a brand new GNR. WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE? Is this a hobby for rich people?" which disrespects not only the hundreds of pinball machines that aren’t the 4 they want, but also the overwhelming percentage of hobbyists here who are not rich.

    2. They post the same dumb threads over and over, seriously thinking they are the only geniuses to ever wonder which games are overrated or underrated or what theme we'd like to see or why the Pinside 100 isn't to their liking, or to ponder whether or not we are in a bubble and, in fact, if it will burst.

    3. They crowd up an already crowded hobby driving up prices and further sucking up all the games.

    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.

    5. They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to "pinball machines are expensive" or "why won't someone sell me a MM cheap?" We really don't care about the minute details of your life or the complex intellectual process behind your conclusion that "games shouldn't dimple" or "you see, pinball is kinda like cars..."

    6. THey tend to be the worst fanboys. You rarely see a 15 year vet camping out in a Stern thread whining about how much better a JJP game is or vice versa as if their life depends on convincing the rest of the world of it. It's always people who have been around 3 years and think we give a shit about their unfettered todyism and banal cheerleading.

    7. It'll come to me and I'll add it in here. Edit - yeah, the fucking cargument. Why are human beings universally unable to compare anything to anything else that isn't a car? It begs the question, did analogies even exist before the invention of the car? Or were people dumbfounded, saying things like “butter churns are like...um...uhh...gosh nabbit!!!! Someone better invent some kind of horseless carriage so I can complete this sentence!!”

    8. They like to rage vent with some 2,000 word post about an ebay or craigslist deal gone sour, as if it hasnt happened to all of us a dozen times, or as if any of us give a shit about the boring details or as if the 65-year old woman who wronged them will actually come here to read it.

    9. Like most people, they almost always think they are funny, and like most people, they aren't.

    10. Constant demands for code updates and an almost universal lack of understanding of how business works, exemplified by demands that "Stern should cut their prices $1,000!" or "Why can't pinball machines cost less, but have way more stuff in them, also they should be way more complicated, but also be way more reliable!" You know, insane shit like that which is either impossible or would put any pinball company under in about a month.

    #9 7 months ago

    Ya da man Levi!

    #10 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:
    1. The poorer / more frugal types like to announce themselves with "I am brand new to this hobby and want a MB, MM, or TZ, or a brand new GNR. WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE? Is this a hobby for rich people?"
    2. They post the same dumb threads over and over, seriously thinking they are the only geniuses to ever wonder which games are overrated or underrated or what theme we'd like to see or why the Pinside 100 isn't to their liking, or to ponder whether or not we are in a bubble and, in fact, if it will burst.
    3. They crowd up an already crowded hobby driving up prices and further sucking up all the games.
    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.
    5. They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to "pinball machines are expensive" or "why won't someone sell me a MM cheap?" We really don't care about the minute details of your life or the intellectual process behind your conclusion that "games shouldn't dimple."
    6. THey tend to be the worst fanboys. You rarely see a 15 year vet camping out in a Stern thread whining about how much better a JJP game is or vice versa. It's always people who have been around 3 years and think we give a shit about their unfettered todyism and banal cheerleading.
    7. It'll come to me and I'll add it in here. Edit - yeah, the fucking cargument. Why are human beings universally unable to compare anything to anything else that isn't a car?
    8. They like to rage vent with some 2,000 word post about an ebay or craigslist gone bad, as if any of us give a shit or the person who wronged them will actually come here to read it.
    9. Like most people, they almost always think they are funny, and like most people, they aren't.

    4.

    #11 7 months ago

    Those late 70’s and early 80’s “Cameron’s” and Firebirds are in super high demand.

    I wish I had bought all of those 190hp monsters that I could have found ten years ago.

    10
    #12 7 months ago
    Screen_Shot_2020-07-24_at_11.33.38_AM (resized).jpg
    #13 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring

    Ditto to you.

    #15 7 months ago

    Hey OP. If I may, here's some advice. Buy a few games, save your money, make some new pinball friends, join a local league, find some deals, give some deals. Or don't, no one gives a shit.

    Games will never hit dirt cheap, give away prices again. There are lot of repair guides and replacement parts, AND that's a good thing.

    There are plenty of games in my short time in this hobby I regret not picking up with today's prices. But oh well life moves on.

    Also, close this lame ass thread. Whinnying about pinball goes against your post. Consider giving back somehow to the community instead of posting this bullshit.

    11
    #16 7 months ago

    I challenge anyone to go back and read the original post out load and alternate each paragraph from a male to female voice.

    It reads like a couple arguing.

    #17 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:
    1. The poorer / more frugal types like to announce themselves with "I am brand new to this hobby and and the only games I'm interested in owning is a mint condition MB, MM, or TZ, or a brand new GNR. WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE? Is this a hobby for rich people?"
    2. They post the same dumb threads over and over, seriously thinking they are the only geniuses to ever wonder which games are overrated or underrated or what theme we'd like to see or why the Pinside 100 isn't to their liking, or to ponder whether or not we are in a bubble and, in fact, if it will burst.
    3. They crowd up an already crowded hobby driving up prices and further sucking up all the games.
    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.
    5. They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to "pinball machines are expensive" or "why won't someone sell me a MM cheap?" We really don't care about the minute details of your life or the complex intellectual process behind your conclusion that "games shouldn't dimple" or "you see, pinball is kinda like cars..."
    6. THey tend to be the worst fanboys. You rarely see a 15 year vet camping out in a Stern thread whining about how much better a JJP game is or vice versa. It's always people who have been around 3 years and think we give a shit about their unfettered todyism and banal cheerleading.
    7. It'll come to me and I'll add it in here. Edit - yeah, the fucking cargument. Why are human beings universally unable to compare anything to anything else that isn't a car?
    8. They like to rage vent with some 2,000 word post about an ebay or craigslist deal gone sour, as if it hasnt happened to all of us a dozen times, or as if any of us give a shit about the boring details or as if the person who wronged them will actually come here to read it.
    9. Like most people, they almost always think they are funny, and like most people, they aren't.
    10. Constant demands for code updates and an almost universal lack of understanding of how business works, exemplified by demands that "Stern should cut their prices $1,000!" or "Why can't pinball machines cost less, but have way more stuff in them, also they should be way more complicated, but also be way more reliable!" You know, insane shit like that which is either impossible or would put any pinball company under in about a month.

    tl/dr.

    #18 7 months ago

    Ditto to you.

    #19 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.

    I laughed out loud while eating dinner.

    #20 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:
    1. The poorer / more frugal types like to announce themselves with "I am brand new to this hobby and and the only games I'm interested in owning is a mint condition MB, MM, or TZ, or a brand new GNR. WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE? Is this a hobby for rich people?"
    2. They post the same dumb threads over and over, seriously thinking they are the only geniuses to ever wonder which games are overrated or underrated or what theme we'd like to see or why the Pinside 100 isn't to their liking, or to ponder whether or not we are in a bubble and, in fact, if it will burst.
    3. They crowd up an already crowded hobby driving up prices and further sucking up all the games.
    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.
    5. They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to "pinball machines are expensive" or "why won't someone sell me a MM cheap?" We really don't care about the minute details of your life or the complex intellectual process behind your conclusion that "games shouldn't dimple" or "you see, pinball is kinda like cars..."
    6. THey tend to be the worst fanboys. You rarely see a 15 year vet camping out in a Stern thread whining about how much better a JJP game is or vice versa. It's always people who have been around 3 years and think we give a shit about their unfettered todyism and banal cheerleading.
    7. It'll come to me and I'll add it in here. Edit - yeah, the fucking cargument. Why are human beings universally unable to compare anything to anything else that isn't a car?
    8. They like to rage vent with some 2,000 word post about an ebay or craigslist deal gone sour, as if it hasnt happened to all of us a dozen times, or as if any of us give a shit about the boring details or as if the person who wronged them will actually come here to read it.
    9. Like most people, they almost always think they are funny, and like most people, they aren't.
    10. Constant demands for code updates and an almost universal lack of understanding of how business works, exemplified by demands that "Stern should cut their prices $1,000!" or "Why can't pinball machines cost less, but have way more stuff in them, also they should be way more complicated, but also be way more reliable!" You know, insane shit like that which is either impossible or would put any pinball company under in about a month.

    This is pretty scathing (and hilarious), but the OP and other newer people should try reading it without being defensive.

    In this and other hobbies, if you're new, it's good to lurk, read up and learn a bit before jumping in guns a blazing.

    #21 7 months ago
    Quoted from floyd1977:

    This is pretty scathing (and hilarious), but the OP and other newer people should try reading it without being defensive.
    In this and other hobbies, if you're new, it's good to lurk, read up and learn a bit before jumping in guns a blazing.

    True. It doesn't take long to spot the people to avoid.

    11
    #22 7 months ago

    People were like this somewhat ten years ago because it drove the prices up and pissed off the old guard.
    The difference between now and then that I can see is the newbies seem to think they know more than the people who have been here far longer. And plenty find it annoying.

    17
    #23 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:
    1. The poorer / more frugal types like to announce themselves with "I am brand new to this hobby and and the only games I'm interested in owning is a mint condition MB, MM, or TZ, or a brand new GNR. WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE? Is this a hobby for rich people?"
    2. They post the same dumb threads over and over, seriously thinking they are the only geniuses to ever wonder which games are overrated or underrated or what theme we'd like to see or why the Pinside 100 isn't to their liking, or to ponder whether or not we are in a bubble and, in fact, if it will burst.
    3. They crowd up an already crowded hobby driving up prices and further sucking up all the games.
    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.
    5. They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to "pinball machines are expensive" or "why won't someone sell me a MM cheap?" We really don't care about the minute details of your life or the complex intellectual process behind your conclusion that "games shouldn't dimple" or "you see, pinball is kinda like cars..."
    6. THey tend to be the worst fanboys. You rarely see a 15 year vet camping out in a Stern thread whining about how much better a JJP game is or vice versa. It's always people who have been around 3 years and think we give a shit about their unfettered todyism and banal cheerleading.
    7. It'll come to me and I'll add it in here. Edit - yeah, the fucking cargument. Why are human beings universally unable to compare anything to anything else that isn't a car?
    8. They like to rage vent with some 2,000 word post about an ebay or craigslist deal gone sour, as if it hasnt happened to all of us a dozen times, or as if any of us give a shit about the boring details or as if the person who wronged them will actually come here to read it.
    9. Like most people, they almost always think they are funny, and like most people, they aren't.
    10. Constant demands for code updates and an almost universal lack of understanding of how business works, exemplified by demands that "Stern should cut their prices $1,000!" or "Why can't pinball machines cost less, but have way more stuff in them, also they should be way more complicated, but also be way more reliable!" You know, insane shit like that which is either impossible or would put any pinball company under in about a month.

    Best post ever?

    0A2B7B2E-0CD0-40CA-BC2A-88A3D6E2B063.gif
    #24 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:
    1. The poorer / more frugal types like to announce themselves with "I am brand new to this hobby and and the only games I'm interested in owning is a mint condition MB, MM, or TZ, or a brand new GNR. WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE? Is this a hobby for rich people?"
    2. They post the same dumb threads over and over, seriously thinking they are the only geniuses to ever wonder which games are overrated or underrated or what theme we'd like to see or why the Pinside 100 isn't to their liking, or to ponder whether or not we are in a bubble and, in fact, if it will burst.
    3. They crowd up an already crowded hobby driving up prices and further sucking up all the games.
    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.
    5. They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to "pinball machines are expensive" or "why won't someone sell me a MM cheap?" We really don't care about the minute details of your life or the complex intellectual process behind your conclusion that "games shouldn't dimple" or "you see, pinball is kinda like cars..."
    6. THey tend to be the worst fanboys. You rarely see a 15 year vet camping out in a Stern thread whining about how much better a JJP game is or vice versa as if their life depends on convincing the rest of the world of it. It's always people who have been around 3 years and think we give a shit about their unfettered todyism and banal cheerleading.
    7. It'll come to me and I'll add it in here. Edit - yeah, the fucking cargument. Why are human beings universally unable to compare anything to anything else that isn't a car?
    8. They like to rage vent with some 2,000 word post about an ebay or craigslist deal gone sour, as if it hasnt happened to all of us a dozen times, or as if any of us give a shit about the boring details or as if the 65-year old woman who wronged them will actually come here to read it.
    9. Like most people, they almost always think they are funny, and like most people, they aren't.
    10. Constant demands for code updates and an almost universal lack of understanding of how business works, exemplified by demands that "Stern should cut their prices $1,000!" or "Why can't pinball machines cost less, but have way more stuff in them, also they should be way more complicated, but also be way more reliable!" You know, insane shit like that which is either impossible or would put any pinball company under in about a month.

    I didn't read your post because it looked long and boring. Then I did and laughed my ass off! Good points

    #25 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:
    1. The poorer / more frugal types like to announce themselves with "I am brand new to this hobby and and the only games I'm interested in owning is a mint condition MB, MM, or TZ, or a brand new GNR. WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE? Is this a hobby for rich people?" which disrespects not only the hundreds of pinball machines that aren’t the 4 they want, but also the overwhelming percentage of hobbyists here who are not rich.
    2. They post the same dumb threads over and over, seriously thinking they are the only geniuses to ever wonder which games are overrated or underrated or what theme we'd like to see or why the Pinside 100 isn't to their liking, or to ponder whether or not we are in a bubble and, in fact, if it will burst.
    3. They crowd up an already crowded hobby driving up prices and further sucking up all the games.
    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.
    5. They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to "pinball machines are expensive" or "why won't someone sell me a MM cheap?" We really don't care about the minute details of your life or the complex intellectual process behind your conclusion that "games shouldn't dimple" or "you see, pinball is kinda like cars..."
    6. THey tend to be the worst fanboys. You rarely see a 15 year vet camping out in a Stern thread whining about how much better a JJP game is or vice versa as if their life depends on convincing the rest of the world of it. It's always people who have been around 3 years and think we give a shit about their unfettered todyism and banal cheerleading.
    7. It'll come to me and I'll add it in here. Edit - yeah, the fucking cargument. Why are human beings universally unable to compare anything to anything else that isn't a car? It begs the question, did analogies even exist before the invention of the car? Or were people dumbfounded, saying things like “butter churns are like...um...uhh...gosh nabbit!!!! Someone better invent some kind of horseless carriage so I can complete this sentence!!”
    8. They like to rage vent with some 2,000 word post about an ebay or craigslist deal gone sour, as if it hasnt happened to all of us a dozen times, or as if any of us give a shit about the boring details or as if the 65-year old woman who wronged them will actually come here to read it.
    9. Like most people, they almost always think they are funny, and like most people, they aren't.
    10. Constant demands for code updates and an almost universal lack of understanding of how business works, exemplified by demands that "Stern should cut their prices $1,000!" or "Why can't pinball machines cost less, but have way more stuff in them, also they should be way more complicated, but also be way more reliable!" You know, insane shit like that which is either impossible or would put any pinball company under in about a month.

    HZYC.gif
    11
    #26 7 months ago

    These today’s noobs would not have lasted two days on the RGP. Ole Levi is just a pussycat compared to Frank.

    #27 7 months ago
    Quoted from crank:

    These today’s noobs would not have lasted two days on the RGP. Ole Levi is just a pussycat compared to Frank.

    That’s true.

    The one-two punch of him and Radio Gary even drove ME out of there.

    #28 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long, but since it had at least five points in it, I gave you a thumbs up.

    #29 7 months ago

    The post is the answer

    #30 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.

    Iam getting a t-shirt made with this quote

    #31 7 months ago

    because they come across as if the interwebs was invented yesterday;

    What game should i buy if i have $100,000?
    what is your favorite game?
    what is the best underrated game?

    use the search function and not come across as a noobe

    24
    #32 7 months ago

    i only hate it when newbs put colored LED's in their GI sockets. They don't know any better, and see other newbs doing it, thinking it is the way. Until you figure out you can't see the ball anymore. but then the damage is done and most are too lazy to change it to white after doing all the work to make it colorshitfest in the first place.

    #33 7 months ago

    Man, poor dude asked questions and you all attack him. Buncha cranky fucks should be thrilled new people are taking an interest in the hobby.

    #34 7 months ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    Man, poor dude asked questions and you all attack him. Buncha cranky fucks should be thrilled new people are taking an interest in the hobby.

    Noobs are the ones driving POTC up past $20,000, driving all the “flipping” which you won’t stop whining about.

    Make up your mind already dude!!!

    #35 7 months ago

    Levi's post at the top should be required reading upon signing up for an account

    #36 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.

    Welcome to the club.

    -1
    #37 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Noobs are the ones driving POTC up past $20,000, which you won’t stop whining about.
    Make up your mind already dude!!!

    It's old timers that flip them. Not noobs begging to buy them for crazy prices. We should embrace new people if we want this hobby to keep going.

    -1
    #38 7 months ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    Man, poor dude asked questions and you all attack him. Buncha cranky fucks should be thrilled new people are taking an interest in the hobby.

    Why?

    #39 7 months ago

    Should I buy this chair? It looks great up high, I’m wandering what it looks like on the floor??

    7E21181B-0EEC-4AE6-8247-7C504E66464E (resized).jpeg
    #40 7 months ago

    I won’t use a car annology . The over inflated prices like POTC remind me of the market crash in 2008. People buying and flipping houses with the plans to make money on the flip. If you don’t recall, it ended with a bunch of people holding over priced houses when the market collapsed and then losing their shirts. I could easily see this happening to our pinball passion. I hope no one is taking out a loan to buy a NIB collectors edition, signed and numbered, “rare” machine thinking it’s going to appreciate.

    #41 7 months ago

    Serious question? To keep the industry thriving. So as we all start dying they keep on making them. So steve ritchie doesnt have to be making the same lame design into his 70s. More people buying make more people wish to get into the industry and keep it going.

    #42 7 months ago
    Quoted from Chosen_S:

    Should I buy this chair? It looks great up high, I’m wandering what it looks like on the floor??
    [quoted image]

    Not Herman Miller, its junk.

    #43 7 months ago

    Ive only been into this hobby for 7 or so years. But I feel like I'm already approaching #4 in Levi's post.

    #44 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I didn't read your post as it looked long and boring but I read the subject line:
    1. The poorer / more frugal types like to announce themselves with "I am brand new to this hobby and and the only games I'm interested in owning is a mint condition MB, MM, or TZ, or a brand new GNR. WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE? Is this a hobby for rich people?" which disrespects not only the hundreds of pinball machines that aren’t the 4 they want, but also the overwhelming percentage of hobbyists here who are not rich.
    2. They post the same dumb threads over and over, seriously thinking they are the only geniuses to ever wonder which games are overrated or underrated or what theme we'd like to see or why the Pinside 100 isn't to their liking, or to ponder whether or not we are in a bubble and, in fact, if it will burst.
    3. They crowd up an already crowded hobby driving up prices and further sucking up all the games.
    4. I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.
    5. They type way too goddamn much and think we seriously want to read their 2,000 word essays that boil down to "pinball machines are expensive" or "why won't someone sell me a MM cheap?" We really don't care about the minute details of your life or the complex intellectual process behind your conclusion that "games shouldn't dimple" or "you see, pinball is kinda like cars..."
    6. THey tend to be the worst fanboys. You rarely see a 15 year vet camping out in a Stern thread whining about how much better a JJP game is or vice versa as if their life depends on convincing the rest of the world of it. It's always people who have been around 3 years and think we give a shit about their unfettered todyism and banal cheerleading.
    7. It'll come to me and I'll add it in here. Edit - yeah, the fucking cargument. Why are human beings universally unable to compare anything to anything else that isn't a car? It begs the question, did analogies even exist before the invention of the car? Or were people dumbfounded, saying things like “butter churns are like...um...uhh...gosh nabbit!!!! Someone better invent some kind of horseless carriage so I can complete this sentence!!”
    8. They like to rage vent with some 2,000 word post about an ebay or craigslist deal gone sour, as if it hasnt happened to all of us a dozen times, or as if any of us give a shit about the boring details or as if the 65-year old woman who wronged them will actually come here to read it.
    9. Like most people, they almost always think they are funny, and like most people, they aren't.
    10. Constant demands for code updates and an almost universal lack of understanding of how business works, exemplified by demands that "Stern should cut their prices $1,000!" or "Why can't pinball machines cost less, but have way more stuff in them, also they should be way more complicated, but also be way more reliable!" You know, insane shit like that which is either impossible or would put any pinball company under in about a month.

    ...and I didn't read yours for the same reason......long and boring....xx

    #45 7 months ago
    Quoted from Toymaker:

    Ok, so we just recently bought a house and as a result our first pin. Been wanting one since I knew we would have a basement/rec area and finally settled on one with wife.
    One thing I am noticing is alot of complaints about all the "new" buyers coming out of the year of COVID and the stupid prices as a result.
    Seems alot of people are missing half the equation here...yes, there are some uneducated buyers paying way too much for some low grade EM machines based on "nostalgia" - at the same time you gotta have sellers trying to dupe them.
    The real problem as always is uneducated or unscrupulous sellers. You seem to have a ton of sellers who bought a machine 20 years ago...they jump on eBay and see someone with a fully restored/shopped machine asking 4k - do that must mean there's is worth at least that - better ask 5 for "negotiations" - of course they miss that there are maybe 5 or 10 fully restored/mint versions of that title and 1400 low grade examples - or that a full restoration took 2k in parts and a couple of hundred hours - they just know that XYZ Pinball advertised the same machine they own and they don't want a dime less.
    I'll be the first to admit - I started out wanting a Kiss pin - and I will state right now - I would NEVER buy one for me. If you gave me one - I'd sell to the first reasonable buyer. They command a premium - but why pay more than 3500 for an old machine when at the same price point there are many more reliable. If you really want a rock theme - plenty of Zep pins that will hit the used market in a couple of years I suspect...its been a hot seller, but eventually something new will come out and those will lose interest.
    At the same time - wanna stop seeing the post of dreamers asking 20k for 12-14k titles...QUIT REACTING to them! Just like YouTube influences- the more view/reaction- the more they get pushed to top of the feed.
    The hobby is no different than classic cars...and it killed it for many. Someone sees a '68 Camaro roll across Barret-Jackson at 3am on ESPN - the hammer falls at 80k...now someone thinks EVERY '68 Cameron is worth 80k....WRONG. Restored, pristine trailer queens are worth 60-80k...your puttied up mismatch is worth 20 on a good day to the uneducated buyer maybe...realistically 15k. But because someone saw one sell for more...they suspect they are getting a bargain.
    If fools want to waste their money chasing garbage - let them. There's way too much decent stuff out there to clean up on at fair prices. Using the car analogy - i remember a local guy back in the early 90s...when everyone else was chasing those late 60s "gems" - he built quite the collection of late 70s/early 80s Cameron and Firebirds and a few select Novas. Wanna guess who cleaned up come 2010 when he sold out.

    welcome unless its technical information keep it short

    #46 7 months ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    Serious question? To keep the industry thriving. So as we all start dying they keep on making them. So steve ritchie doesnt have to be making the same lame design into his 70s. More people buying make more people wish to get into the industry and keep it going.

    The Cranky Fucks beg to differ.
    Very few wish to learn how to repair/re-furbish. Looking for a fast profit on a flip.
    Short term.

    #47 7 months ago

    Because they feel the need to cover there games in little kids toys....

    #48 7 months ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    Not Herman Miller, its junk.

    Ah yes, thank you.... Youve really got me thinking about Herman, what about Chairy from Pee-Wee Herman? That’s a great chair, it talks and all kinds of stuff, I think it can even eat a person possibly!?

    652E747A-73D6-4176-B1A8-1FA3C7720CBF (resized).jpeg
    19
    #49 7 months ago

    Because they think Pinstadiums are a must, they cry a river over the tiniest defect on their NIB pin, they contemplate "getting out of the hobby" when something breaks, they price pump their NIB pins like it's their job, they pay $2k for toppers, and they pontificate when they don't know shit.

    Not all newbs fit the above description, but all those who fit the above description are newbs.

    15
    #50 7 months ago

    Noob here. Correlation does not equal causation. They hate you because you’re annoying not because you’re a noob. Also, stop caring about what people think of you on an Internet message boards.

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