talking money is crass
most people here are about fixing and playing pinball

Because a flipper adds zero value to a game while driving up the prices.

I can't say I hate them.

What I don't like is when they start out. Can't fix a frikken thing. Not even adjust a switch. Then they discover making money flipping pins. And then post on pinball forums like they are know it all experts at everything.

LTG : )

Give us some examples, so we can judge properly!

Having a quick glance at your market activity, I'm not convinced you're selling at market value. Exhibit A,

$8,000 for a broken (needs new drop targets), faded IJ that needs maintenance?

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/83773

Then down to $6800

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/84319

Then down to $5999 with some parts included so buyer can fix it himself.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/85983

So, looks more like "try to gouge for as much as possible first" and don't do any work, rather than "sell it at market value".

I'm afraid to ask how much you paid for this? But as long as you're coming clean, how much?

Actually, this is probably enough evidence already: you suck...

In the event industry, the people who fulfill the same role you’re describing are called scalpers.

Pretty easy to answer, guy gets game you were interested in for $600, a project that needs alot of work, new backglass, extensive playfield touchups etc, 48 hrs later it's listed on CL for $2400, as a fully shopped game, what's not to love!!

Post deleted

I have too many other things that I need to worry about in my life and flippers aren’t one of them. It’s not worth worrying about something you can’t control.

There is a guy on Stern Potc thread says he sold a Stern Potc for $10,500 to an unsophisticated buyer. But he said the guy had plenty of money so he doesn’t feel bad about it.

Seems every "beware of" thread is about deceptive flippers.

First that comes to mind..
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/addams-family-nightmare

Flippers make me sick. Let someone else buy them that actually WANT TO PLAY THEM you effing jerks.

Flippers if up front like Lloyd Coinopwarehouse just fine . Flipper whom tries to drive a better deal distasteful. No reason to hate unless rude . Statement just buy from someone else easy way to cut off transaction in my experience. Same category as tire kickers , photo collectors or newbies you would be better off not having monetary dealings with .
Good advise if you want to enjoy the hobby with long time horizon .

Have great day Shane

48 hours? That feels like 47 hours too long. I like the ads where it uses the same pictures from the original for sale ad and maybe even one of the game folded up in the back of the truck - you know for easy, ground level loading into your vehicle

Primarily because this is a hobby for most people and flippers just drive up the costs of the hobby and generally provide no added value (no warranty, questionable work). Who likes increased costs? Most people understand profit for people and companies where this is their living but it leaves a bad taste when hobbyists are (often) sticking it to other hobbyists. This Feeling stems from the fact that this used to be a tighter knit community where it was relatively cheap to join and there were often deals between hobbyists because there wasn’t really any way to make (much) money - just an ability to break even. Money changes everything!

I don’t hate flippers but I can’t say I entirely like their motives.

As stated by so many so far.....flippers kinda suck.

They hyperinflate the market.

They often don't give a shit about the item they are flipping.

The worst flippers are vinyl record flippers. How about a $15-$20 record of which only 200 pcs. are produced? The TRUE fans of said music record often don't even get an opportunity to buy the item at anything but a super inflated price from the flipper. Bummer for a lot of people who may only have limited funds.

If you buy something and enjoy it and then make a profit off of it when you are finished with it? Cool.

If you are doing it to only line your pockets with money? You suck.

They add no value. Simple.

Because they suck

Flippers are worse than a root canal without Novocain

So if you bought a complete game at $150 and added $100 for a quick and reasonable price , that is considered evil??

how about the guy on here who takes other people's listings and represents them as his own, just for more money. he doesn't even own the game yet. then turns around and only buys the game from the actual owner if he makes a sale at the higher price. some of you know who i'm talking about. compared to that guy, "flippers" are like Mother Terese.

I have been a flipper for my entire existence in the hobby. For me, a lot of my hobby is funded by the hobby. I often will only sell machines I completely go through first. But on those machines that I do sell as projects, untouched, I give a complete honest assessment of the issues with the machine. I also will only sell at a price that will still leave some meat on the bone for the buyer if they run into issues I wasn't aware of.

A lot of flippers that get poor reputations, have zero idea what they are actually flipping and shoot from the top pricing wise trying to compared shopped games pricing with their unshopped flip for sale.

I have no problem picking up a game and if it is not on my want list passing it on as a project but it has to priced accordingly.

The worst flippers are the ones who pretend not to be flippers and even get offended if called out.

In the stylings of Jeff Foxworthy:

If you buy a game and already have a price and buyer in mind while picking it up, you might be a flipper.

If you buy a game, never set it up in your house, and sell it right out of your garage, you might be a flipper.

If you buy a game and you sell it and deliver it same day without ever leaving your truck, you might be a flipper.

I'm sure you guys can add a few more.

There were no flippers before 1947

I feel the same about flippers as I do scalpers.

Indifferent.

I completely get people selling games because they don't like them, need room, need their $$ out, or any personal reason.

There are definitely flippers however, that:
a) buy a game knowing its leaving before they have it (new or otherwise)
b) attempt to fix a game they bought for dirt, then flip stating "minor issues"
c) selling "vaporware" for profit (spots in line for games or high end mods)
d) selling a game as something it's not

Not a fan, but am sure several make decent $$$ at it, even funding their collection and gaining stature in the community as a "great seller" in the process.

Doubt they care what anyone thinks about it. I would fall into the "I don't like it, but don't care as they don't" category, but not an option in the poll...

Yet again - you can state my exact sentiment in 11 words, when it takes me 100....(I must work on my brevity)

Legit LOL this morning. Thanks for that. Haha

Scalpers is more like it. "I don't want it, but I will beat someone to it just to raise the price."

Do you enjoy pinball?
Playing, collecting, or fixing?
Or is your interest ONLY in buying low and selling high?
Do you properly repair games before selling, or do you half-ass fix/destroy games and try to rip off uninformed newbs?

If you are only in it for the money, you only drive the cost up for those of us who really enjoy it.
If you screw folks new to pinball, you are a cancer on the hobby.

Dirtwads

People can do what they want without suffering my scrutiny, there are a lot worse ways to make money.

I don’t like the ones who say “ it’s been in my private collection” after they’ve just hauled it out of someone’s basement. Otherwise I have no issues if someone buys a game and quickly sells it for more than they paid. I don’t think they drive up prices, it’s the buyer who does that.

Hows that saying go?

Don’t hate the player...

Flippers and collectors are basically the same:

Flipper buys $1500 game for $500: Net worth goes up $1000

Collector buys $1500 game for $500: Net worth goes up $1000

The only difference is a flipper converts the increase in net worth to cash, generally takes on more risk and buys more aggressively. Shitty flippers that lie about condition and overprice their games give the others bad names.

If you buy a game and list it/sell it without doing a thing to it within a few days, you are a flipper. I don't really care either way, just don't be an ass about it and everything will be fine.

Reminds me of the "don't bets" in craps. Most people at the craps table play against the house or with the "pass/win" shooter. I don't care if you bet against the shooter(majority bet with them), as long as you're not an ass about it when you win. (I do realize you can bet against yourself as a shooter. That is VERY rare for someone to actually do.)

There is a huge chance for a flipper to take advantage of an uninformed/newbie buyer. I see flippers take this advantage a lot of times. Conversely, I have rarely ever seen a collector take advantage of a newbie buyer. So flip away, just don't be an ass or take advantage of a newbie.

If you add no value to the transaction you’re just a parasite.

The only time I consider “flipping a game” is if I come into a large lot of 4+ games and only want two of them or something like that. Usually to help pay for the transport and labor of a multi game pickup.

I’m definitely guilty of buying a game cheap, shopping it to 100% then charging average market value. But that also seems like a different animal.

But yes, I do hate it when people pick up a good deal on a single pin, do NOTHING to it then just bump the price up a few thousand and wait. It’s a small community, you think everybody in your local area didn’t see that machine go up and down?

Flippers are just mildly annoying because not only do they not add any value to the hobby, they actively sift value out of it via opportunism. That value could have either belonged to the ultimate buyer or the original seller if they weren't there. So when people know that everyone else would have been better off if one party simply didn't exist, that's where the disdain comes from. That being said, some people do get way too upset by the flippers...

Depends on how you define flippers... the guys who buy stuff and windex it then resell for profit suck

people who buy vintage arcade games to covert into multicades really suck

But there are people who get funky cheaper stuff and shop it, fix it up etc etc... no problem with them making a buck.

Lots of dealers work that way.. better margin in that then selling NIB stuff.

I have purchased some nice stuff at great prices from flippers. just because they beat everyone to the deal does not make them dirtbags. Like I said before as long as the price is appropriate I do not see a problem.

They typically artificially inflate the prices for the rest of us contributing to manufacturer price creep. Further, many ads are framed to create FOMO, which just sucks. The whole FOMO thing can be found throughout the hobby (and life in general), but when flippers use it to try and create value and demand, it's comical (and just sucks).

Anti flipper fervor is always whipped up by whiners who have no idea how to get a good deal, and/or are too lazy to do the work so called “flippers” do to make it happen.

The idea that games are just falling into “flippers’” laps like manna from heaven is ridiculous. People have no idea the actual work that goes into most of these “I can flip this for quick money!” Deals.

Most of these games would never see the light of day on the market if it weren’t for the work done by these people. They increase supply so I don’t see how they raise prices; if anything they help keep prices in check by continually unearthing fresh product for you vultures!!

Pinball has always been a hobby that rewards legwork, relationships, and the ability to act quick and move games out of twisty basements and up stairs. “Flippers” generally earn every cent of their vig and all you lazy entitled noobs should be grateful they are scrounging up these games for you to overpay for.

Lets see. A few weeks ago there was a black pyramid pin on FB for $375. This is a game I was looking for and only 30 minutes from me. Messaged at 10 minutes from post. Seller said I was second in line and could pick up if first guy didn't buy.
Well first guy was coinop. Yes a flipper. But hey, I can now drive and extra hour and go buy it for $975 exactly the way it was from the seller.

Yeah, gotta love those flippers.

LOL, Basically there are two types of flippers. As you describe is what I've done for 20 years buying and selling hundreds of games. Running ads, raiding ops warehouses, hunting down old arcades and owners to buy games. I no longer buy and sell because I'd rather spend my time enjoying my own games.

What pisses most people off would be the ones buying strait off FB or CL then dumping back into the market at a higher price. You can't lump these types of flippers together. These games were already on the market, they are doping nothing but being the first one to contact, loading into there truck and posting the next day.

Over the last 24 years of being in the hobby I've bought 665 pinball machines. They have come from every form of life in every kind of condition imaginable. Through all those purchases I've meet some really great people and have stayed friends with many of them over the years. Of those 665 games I've manage to purchase and keep around 75 games set up and running at all times here in the basement for hundreds (if not thousands) of people from all over the world to enjoy. Those 590 games that I've sold off have paid for all the games I've kept as well as keeping the basement decorated with what I enjoy being surrounded with and hopefully others think some of the other non pinball stuff is cool too. Am I getting rich "flipping" games? Certainly not, but I'm proud of the collection and especially happy when others can come enjoy it not only during the annual party but anytime they want through out the years, all they had to do was invite themselves over and the door was always open. Sure I made a few bucks and lost a few bucks too, but when I look back at all those games that many of which would have never seen the light of day and would have stayed stuck in a smelly basement, wet garage, or even left outdoors....I found them, I payed for them, I hauled them home, I cleaned them, I fixed them, I took pictures of them, I advertised them, I dealt with the deadbeat picture collectors, I found a buyer for them, and I helped to load it up and send them on there way, ...... and they had new life breathed into them for others to enjoy for years to come. Does all that make me a flipper? Sure, whatever. Call it what you want but I think I've put in enough time, money, resources, and effort to justify it paying for my keeper collection for all to enjoy!!

John

row1 (resized).jpgrow2 (resized).jpgrow3 (resized).jpgrow4 (resized).jpg

Not by my definition.
You don't grab up every cheap game, then immediately re-list them for more.
You don't rip off the uninformed.
And you are a pinball collector, not someone who is just after profit through pinball.