This term has nothing to do with being self righteous or the true pinball enthusiast. It’s possible to be a flipper and a pinball enthusiast at the same time. Even though the term has a negative connotation at it’s core meaning, anyone that restores a game to resell is a flipper. Same with retailers. The majority of those listing older games for sale on Pinside are flippers as well. It only bothers me when someone swears they are not a flipper. I don’t think most people that care about pinball want to know what it means or even care what it means. People take great offense over it and I although I possibly don’t fully understand why, it’s likely because most bad sellers that take advantage of a situation are pointed out as “bad sellers”, also adding the term “flipper”.

I see similar ridiculous arguments back and forth about game design, themes, the market crashing, and competitive pinball play as well. Just own it, don’t take advantage of people and move on, it ain’t a big deal.

I don’t know who has the time or energy to flip. I know I have zero interest in spending my time doing that.

The only people more annoying than flippers are the people who whine about them. Or the rare person who is both.

I wouldn't have most of the games I have if I didn't use the hobby to help fund itself. I can't keep laying out 3, 4, 5K out of pocket unfortunately for these games so I make some money off them when I can to put towards games for my collection. It takes time and energy though for sure.

A flipper who buys and sells pinball machines just to make money is no different than a drug dealer who doesn't do drugs.

Drugs may be easier to move.

I guess the title of this thread is a little antagonistic. Most of the discussion has not been people whining - it is people discussing things in a forum (I.e. a thread to discuss things related to the topic). The topic lacks clarity as to what a “flipper” means. And the term itself can mean different things to different people.

I interpret “flipper” as someone who buys a pin for a price and then doesn’t add any value (other than a quick wipe down) and then misrepresents the condition and the added value that they provided. Like the time I bought a fully shopped TFTC and 100% Issue free. I had to buy off pictures. Only to pick the game up (wrapped), get it home and discover it had the wrong targets which wouldn’t drop, wrong sized rubbers, and more dirt than the pictures showed, etc. Now I paid fair value for the pin as described but perhaps a few hundred more based upon actual condition. No big deal and I didn’t whine but informed the seller that I wasn’t happy. The thing that I hated is that this pin was recently bought, (ahem) gone through 100% and declared almost perfect. It had been shopped and even had brand new plastics so someone went through it but did a half assed job. So for me that is the used car salesman aspect that I disliked. And that is what I dislike (I don’t hate flippers but I dislike that behaviour that some “flippers” have). I dislike it because it creates distrust in the community? Who can I trust?

So, no whine here, just some respectful commentary but no hate.

Keep on flipping folks (the good kind of flipping - with buttons).

You sound to me like you are describing a scammer.

That would be a flipper, IMO. This happens in the used car biz frequently.

This is a scammer. A lier, a cheat, etc. Everything else you said you said in your post.

I still don't understand why people think a game needs value added before someone sells it. There is no difference to me between someone that picks up a cheap game and immediately sells it and someone that picks up the same game, cleans up the playfield, swaps out incandescent bulbs for some cheap leds, and changes out the rubber, then sells it.

Why does value need to be added? What if I picked up a mint HUO game for cheap which didn't need a thing? Do I need to add pinstadiums to it before I sell it for a profit? What if I buy a game for cheap, play it for 6 months and then sell it for a big profit? Is that ok since you forgot I got a deal?

Most people that whine are just angry they didn't get the deal. Period.

Yes...two separate things. Someone that advertises a game as working properly when they know it is not is a scammer. Someone that buys a game cheap and sells it for a profit while being honest on the condition of said game is just participating in capitalism. People who have an issue with that are just angry they weren't the first to buy the cheap game.

Agree that buying and selling is, in itself, fine; regardless of doing things to a machine or not.

If someone does a little work and cleans it up to increase its value, cool.

If someone wants to sell something higher to make a few bucks, and represents the machine honestly, cool.

I think the people who lowball like crazy buying then highball junk at crazy high prices hoping to catch an ignorant buyer is kind of sleazy. Yes, it's a free country to do so.....but I have morals and a conscience I guess. This upsets hobby people who like to see more of the fun aspects of sharing in the pinball experience.

I know people who do just this with the INSANE see what sticks prices....and they are SUCK ASS people to do business dealings with. I also, know people who buy and sell and price fair or a little high to leave negotiation room...and most are GREAT guys!

I witnessed an incident at a show where a well known pinball seller (who seems like a nice guy, but can be pricy) was being sleazy used car attitude to some uninformed people....never purchased from them again. While I was checking their games out, I saw signs noting the high price due to HUO etc on some machines...I also happen to witness a lady come up showing pics of a pinball she had in her family rec room she wanted to sell and admited to not knowing much about it. She said they had it for many years and was only ever played by kids when they were young etc. Pinball guy flat out told her that that was the worst because since game wasnt being maintained by an operator, it probably fell into disrepair and greatly lowered value. Also said kids affected it too cuz they spill their drinks (I believe kool-aid was mentioned specifically, but don't recall) etc. And make a mess of the machine causing more work etc.

He played all disinterested with the 'maybe' I could take it off you hands' attitude, while having the balls to have jacked up HUO pricing right next to her on his for sale stuff. Whether his stuff for sale was nicely redone, hidden junk, etc. THAT'S an A-hole flipper to me.

Long rant. Lol.

I think there are all kinds of people....and I don't think most people mind ANY buying and selling....just handfull of HUGE rip off prices and scammers that make many others get lumped into that group as well...

They don’t have to add value. It is just the frequent attempts by some people (Not an insignificant number) to justify a large increase in value by pointing out their attempts to add value and at the same time not pointing out the obvious things that would detract from value. These obvious things are often easily hidden in pictures but hard to overlook when you have the pin next to you and have apparently “shopped” it. (There is that word shop which is like flipper - a little hard to qualify).

I guess it is the “slight of hand” flippers that people don’t like.

Good discussion folks.

The thing that gets lost in the twice annual thread flipper shuffle is that a true “flipper” is generally selling a game at low market value. The whole point of flippers is to sell a game quickly. Whenever I’ve “flipped” a game, the buyer got a good deal.

Maybe not as good a deal as I got but that’s tough titty

That’s the whole point. If I have to store a game for a year to squeeze max value out of it, it’s not a “flip.”

If you can sell a game without a tinge of sadness you might be a flipper

That's exactly how I was able to afford my WoZ and star trek pro.

Same here. Had to spend my time finding the deals, driving to get the games, hauling them out of basements, and getting them cleaned and working...but was able to pay for my ST pro with minimal out of pocket cash. Same thing with my SlugFest. Flipped 2 arcade games and shopped out two pins for a buddy that needed them for route but didn't have time to get the cash together. No regrets!

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