Indianapolis, IN
Why Star Trek 2013 is better than STTNG:
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Oh, and a ship that actually reacts when you engage it, not a ridiculous looking "Hue" Borg ship that does nothing.
(Topic ID: 74129)
Linked Games
Star Trek (LE)
Stern, 2013-
Star Trek (Premium)
Stern, 2013
-
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Williams, 1993
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Quoted from MapleSyrup:Picard by miles... lightyears!
Picard? You mean that wimpy captain who got beat up TWICE by a scientist in the Generations movie? Yeah...that's right....Kirk had to take him down!
Quoted from bigdaddy07:Are you serious? I guess you've never actually played STTNG.
Lets see..
Lights up when Borg multiball starts (playfield goes dark) starts and when it takes a hit.
Fires the ball back at you from its forward cannon.
Can take a rear hit via the delta ramp during Borg multiball for a super jackpot and reloads its cannon.
Forward scoop under ship registers its main hits for jackpot.
Looks to me like it reacts more than just a bobble.
No physical motion. No crashing. Ridiculous "Hue" Borg ship instead of the iconic cube.
Quoted from bigdaddy07:OK, correct it doesn't phyically move but, at least it does more than bobble. I can always throw a Borg cube on a spring in mine anytime I want for a bobble effect.
The Vengeance does a lot more than bobble......
Quoted from TronGuy:Is it just me or can we get a ST voyager pin with lots of borg stuff?
(yes I know it's just me)
LOL!
I'd like a DS9 pin with a massive Cardassian Space Station toy!
Quoted from pezpunk:i am shamelessly biased (because i'm the biggest fan of the Next Gen TV show ever), but i feel like STTNG has a lot more going on -- more toys, more modes, cannons, bigger climaxes both with borg multiball and the final frontier. all the custom callouts from Patrick Stewart, Delancie, and the rest of the cast is a huge plus as well. i don't hate Stern, but i'll take 90s Williams build quality over current Stern. i hope that's not too controversial. i also think STTNG has better playfield art.
don't get me wrong, STLE is very nice looking, but i just think STTNG is a more complete and elaborate game.
I think that the STTNG pin is a excellent, thoroughly integrated theme. There is no doubt about the thought and hard work that went into making this pin.
Unfortunately, it's not really all that exciting to play. It's slow, and the cannons, while cool at first, wear off over time.
Quoted from pezpunk:Picard. Dude could mix it up when he had to (Starship Mine, First Contact), but he prefered to use his brains over brawn when possible. not to mention he was played by one of the greatest actors of our generation rather than a second rate ham.
First Contact? You mean the one where he FINALLY got some balls? Coincidence that this movie was directed by Riker, the fill in for Kirk?
LOL!
Kirk everyday and twice on Sunday!
Quoted from pezpunk:Dude got stabbed through the heart by a Nausicaan and LAUGHED.
Not the first time....only in the Q re-do, when he was wanting/expecting it.
Quoted from LesManley:For me, STTNG is the best pinball machine of all time. STTNG has...
Shot Variety
Mode Variety
Deep Ruleset
Difficulty / Challenge
Flow
Great Dots
Custom Real Cast Voice Work
Custom Art
Awesome & Varied Music & Sound Effects
Great Integrated Toys
Widebody
Multiple Video Modes
Hidden Easter Eggs
Fantastic (Probably best all time) Theme Integration
...Q and the Borg are cool too
The game literally has everything I like in a game. I can't think of any other game made that fits all these characteristics and only a few that fit most of them. Not too shabby for a game that started out as an Under Siege themed pin.
Yes, but the new Star Trek has most of that (except widebody, which many don't care for). And the code is solid now, with multiple interactive modes, awesome combat modes and we're just getting started! Future updates will bring custom call-outs from Karl Urban as well as polished and deeper modes.
Quoted from LesManley:I wouldn't agree with that. I think it is missing quite a bit actually. It's a fun, solid game as it is, but IMHO off the list I wrote, it doesn't currently have...
Shot Variety
Mode Variety
Custom Real Cast Voice Work
Custom Art
Great Integrated Toys
Widebody
Multiple Video Modes
Hidden Easter Eggs
Fantastic Theme Integration
Well, I already discussed Widebody, so we'll skip that.
It has plenty of mode variety. 6 main missions, with 3 parts each. That's 18 modes right there, not counting various Vengeance battles. Karl Urban coming soon for voice work. Not as varied as STTGN, but TV actors are cheaper than movie stars, so probably not economically viable. Custom art? Like characters drawn on the playfield? Could care less. Love the space-based, Captains perspective playfield. Much better for the theme. Has a GREAT integrated toy in the Vengeance, and combat modes are awesome! Lots of video modes, such as firing on Klingon ships, and batting the Vengeance. Don't know about Easter eggs yet, but hardly anything that defines a pin. Theme integration is very good, as per my earlier comments on the playfield being from the Captain's perspective.
Has both the Fire button for various functions AND a plunger as well. No plunger on STTNG = Fail.
And the Premium cabinet art is 'effing awesome!
Quoted from bigdaddy07:Are you new to the hobby?
Well it’s obvious you detest STTNG and that's OK, we all have different opinions and yours is now well known.
No, i'm not.
And if you've read my earlier posts, you see that I don't detest STTNG pin, I just don't think it's super fun.
And if by video modes you mean "Video Games" in the DMD, well they suck without playfield integration, like what Star Trek LE has. Playing video games with two buttons is worthless.
Quoted from bigdaddy07:Oh yah the phaser plunger. I'm glad you brought that up. Another cool feature for STTNG.
Lame. And this comes from a T2 owner. Give me the plunger.
Quoted from LesManley:18 modes does not equal variance. What happens when you start any of the modes? Some shots light up, then you hit them and others light up. The modes are indistinguishable from each other currently, they are unique in name and color only. Karl Urban doing voice work is awesome and will probably be really cool, but we are talking current, not future state. Vengeance multiball is good, but stages 2 and 3 of shot the Vengeance shot, then shoot it some more and finally shoot it again are uninspired to me. Klingon MB is good, love the jackpot callouts. It's great that you couldN'T care less about custom art, I like the originality. TV actors may be cheaper than movie actors...who knows, but that doesn't take away from the fact that having an entire case do custom voice work and call outs for a pinball machine is not just totally cool, but basically unprecedented. And yes, Easter eggs don't define a pin, but I think that stuff is a nice touch. On it's own, no big deal, but it adds to the overall package. My point of posting wasn't to try to persuade you to change your mind on anything, I was just answering the OPs question as to why I think STTNG is a better game than ST.
Well I'm talking current and future state.
It's great that you like "originality", but I'd argue what Steve did with the new Star Trek's playfield is more original than slapping drawing of characters on it.
Quoted from bigdaddy07:Maybe so but, that's the true definition of a "video mode". What you referred to is just plain dmd animations.
Nope. Both the Klingon ships and the Vengeance react to shots you make on the playfield. They are not just animations.
Quoted from bigdaddy07:That's not a video mode. Video modes are controlled by the flipper buttons on screen (like you hate). Sorry.
Whatever dude.
After Paramount decided to bring Star Trek back.....after TNG almost killed off the franchise with Nemesis....they went back to the 23rd century for a reason.
They took a look at Picard playing the flute in jefferies tubes, Data raising a cat, and a teenager saving the ship every other episode and went with the classic triumvirate of Kirk, Bones, and Spock.
Resolutions in the episode decided by committee aren't very exciting.
Quoted from pezpunk:seriously. the new movies are alright, but i don't really think explosions and cgi are gonna save the franchise. the stories TNG told are never going to be topped by loud noises alone.
DS9 told deeper stories, with many more shades of grey. Alas, I think that show will never be topped for it's many layers.
Quoted from jayhawkai:I can't remember exactly why I put Part_3 on ignore originally, but he's going back to ignore-land.
I see your mouth moving....but nothing comes out when you move your lips, it's just a bunch of gibberish.
Gul Dukat was the most developed "bad guy" to ever appear on Star Trek in any incarnation. Marc Amelio played that character so well, it's hard to tell where one started and the other ended.
Unfortunately, they went in directions with Dukat I didn't care for the last couple of years. Insane Dukat is not as interesting as regular Dukat.
I can't help but wonder what that last season would have been like with Dukat in the Dumar role, leading a rebellion against the Dominion and Kira forced to work alongside him.
Quoted from Frax:The sole fact you would even quote a lyric by Eminem, as a retort no less, just makes you look like a moron. Ugh.
Well, Jackass, no one asked you to jump in. I can quote whatever I like. He may or may not have ignored me, and someone could quote my quote and he'd see it. So there are reasons.
Now, back to your Mom's basement, dweeb.
Quoted from MikeS:STTNG may be a 20 year old pin but the DMD animations are vastly superior to the new LE. Case in point:
stle1-300.jpg 10 KB
STTNG_CardassianShip.jpg 68 KB
stle2.jpg 9 KB
STTNG_Borg.jpg 43 KB
STTNG_Rescue.jpg 70 KB
You serious? You're comparing monochrome DMD to colored ones from ColorDMD?
Compare Apples to Apples Williams DMD's back then where monochrome. Stern's can do different shades.
You can't throw ColorDMD in against the stock config.
Jesus, have the lunatics overran the asylum?
Quoted from pezpunk:20 years of "innovation" = shaded monochrome dots?
I agree it should be an LCD by now.....different argument.....
Quoted from MikeS:Why would I compare monochrome Wiliams DMD images when the STTNG in my basement has a colorDMD? Bottom line is that if you compare the best available STTNG images to the best available STLE images whether they be from a Sigma color display/X-Pin, etc. the STTNG still comes out on top. Maybe someday STLE will be colorized but that doesn't negate the fact that the actual STLE graphics look like they were drawn up by a kindergartner... It's almost 2014 and Stern should be embarrassed to be releasing graphics that look like that in this day and age. My LOTR from 10 years ago has much better DMD art.
With that being said ST is still a blast to play and the lighting is fantastic! It's faster than STTNG but if you compare the games feature for feature STTNG still blows the new game away. Better rules, better sound, better artwork, custom voicework, better animations, more toys, etc. for half the price....
Why? Because that would be Apples to Apples. That's why. Your argument is flawed. By using ColorDMD, you are vastly enhancing the look and feel of the dots.
And Not better sound, better artwork, better animations....blah blah blah....just keep regurgitating the same old stuff.
Quoted from RTS:Why not consider both games as they exist today? It would be more Apples to Apples.
I'm not saying that one game is better than the other, but STTNG now has a color DMD. It vastly enhances the look and feel of the dots.
It would only be fair if you compare the 1993 STTNG against the non existent STLE from 1993.
Because most remaining STTNG don't have this mod. LOL!
Besides, ColorDMD will colorize the new Star Trek eventually, so it's back to the dots themselves, not the color.
The only thing the STTNG has over the new one in dot quality is the likeness of the actors, but that gets back to TV actors being cheaper to license the likeness than movie actors.....
Quoted from MikeS:Seriously?? I have no artistic ability whatsoever but I've doodled pictures that look better than this on napkins during business meetings at work.... Color isn't going to help it. it's just bad!
stle2.jpg 9 KB
I told you before....that's a screen capture where I didn't have the display set to dots. It's looks bad.
What part of this are you missing?
Quoted from Jean-Luc-Picard:Look at the size of them vulcan ears lol.
They are oversized on purpose....part of the weird alternate universe Bones gets beamed into. It's a wizard mode in the game.
Try to do a good deed and show people these shots in ANOTHER post, and it gets used against you on an un-realeated topic. no good deed goes unpunished.....
Quoted from MikeS:Fair enough... You can post some new screen captures with the display set to dots and prove me wrong. I didn't have any other screen captures of the DMD to show which is why I grabbed yours. I've played numerous games on Star Trek and wouldn't exactly say that dots are one of the game's strongest features. It's a fun game with great flow and lighting but it's going to take some really solid code updates before we place this game into the same universe as STTNG. It shows a lot of promise, yes, but it isn't there yet...
I'm good with my choice, you like yours. Free country.
Quoted from bigdaddy07:It’s pretty bad when someone has to resort to childish name calling, at that point all their arguments instantly lose credibility in my book, as they are out of intellectual ideas to throw in.
Yeah, I agree. When Frax called me a moron, it was childish.
The dots can be tweaked in code....it's not permanent like a playfield design. Heck, with Pinball Browser, you can make your own art and insert it.
I'm fine with what in there. Beats the HELL out of cut scenes rendered in dots like Stern's been doing for years with movie themed pins.
Quoted from Frax:I said it makes you LOOK like a moron. Hardly my fault your reading comprehension is lacking.
You're the one cursing and calling me names?
My reading comprehension is fine. And calling you a jackass isn't calling you a name. It's an accurate description. Check it out in Websters.....
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