Are you new to the hobby?

Well it’s obvious you detest STTNG and that's OK, we all have different opinions and yours is now well known.

Oh yah the phaser plunger. I'm glad you brought that up. Another cool feature for STTNG.

I truly enjoy both machines. I loved my STLE from the first play. Sure I was hyped for it but the only other pin that gave me goosebumps like that was ACDC. I think STTNG is one of the best designed pins ever and when dialed-in properly can really keep you on your toes. Fast and unforgiving is how mine plays.

I agree. This is one part of the machine that could be improved. We have some very talented Pinsiders and I would love to see someone design a Borg Cube to completely replace the Hue ship. Yes, that would be cool.

No, i'm not.

And if you've read my earlier posts, you see that I don't detest STTNG pin, I just don't think it's super fun.

And if by video modes you mean "Video Games" in the DMD, well they suck without playfield integration, like what Star Trek LE has. Playing video games with two buttons is worthless.

Lame. And this comes from a T2 owner. Give me the plunger.

This is persuasive. Your logic convinced me

18 modes does not equal variance. What happens when you start any of the modes? Some shots light up, then you hit them and others light up for combos. The modes are indistinguishable from each other currently, they are unique in name and color only. Karl Urban doing voice work is awesome and will probably be really cool, but we are talking current, not future state. Vengeance multiball is good, but stages 2 and 3 of shoot the Vengeance shot, then shoot it some more and finally shoot it again are somewhat uninspired to me. I hope they do more there. Klingon MB is good, love the jackpot callouts. It's great that you couldN'T care less about custom art, I like the originality. For me, it's much better than slapping photo shopped images all over or having basically nothing at all. Same goes for the video modes. I like the mix of pinball and video game. It adds to the package when it fits and a shuttle simulation in Star Trek fits. The fire button on ST is a neat feature. I don't consider Star Trek not having a plunger a fail though, in fact I think the phaser trigger is another well integrated feature to the theme. TV actors may be cheaper than movie actors...who knows, but that doesn't take away from the fact that having an entire cast do custom voice work and call outs for a pinball machine is not just totally cool, but basically unprecedented in pinball. And yes, Easter eggs don't define a pin, but I think that stuff is a nice touch. On it's own, no big deal, but it adds to the overall package.

My point of posting wasn't to try to persuade you to change your mind on anything, like I said, I like ST and I think it is a good game. I was just answering the OPs question as to why I think STTNG is a better game than ST.

Maybe so but, that's the true definition of a "video mode". What you referred to is just plain dmd animations.

Well I'm talking current and future state.

It's great that you like "originality", but I'd argue what Steve did with the new Star Trek's playfield is more original than slapping drawing of characters on it.

Nope. Both the Klingon ships and the Vengeance react to shots you make on the playfield. They are not just animations.

That's not a video mode. Video modes are controlled by the flipper buttons on screen (like you hate). Sorry.

Tamateo, Tamato.....they're both pretty sweet, but I'll hold onto my STTNG

Kirk is cool, but Picard is the man. If we were talking about the shows and the movies, there is some debate, but I'll take Picard all day.

Come on, you know in Generations that it was Kirk's swan song, so they had to have him save the day. Grain of salt!

Plus, if we are debating Picard versus Kirk in STTNG vs. ST pins, then we aren't even talking about Shatner anymore, which means end of discussion. Chris Pike is good, but not iconic like Shatner's Kirk.

There... Are... Four... Lights!

A couple of years from now we'll know where this ST stands in comparison to STTNG. Right now the new ST is in it's honeymoon phase, let that pass, then we'll see.

Kirk is the man

Whatever dude.

After Paramount decided to bring Star Trek back.....after TNG almost killed off the franchise with Nemesis....they went back to the 23rd century for a reason.

They took a look at Picard playing the flute in jefferies tubes, Data raising a cat, and a teenager saving the ship every other episode and went with the classic triumvirate of Kirk, Bones, and Spock.

Resolutions in the episode decided by committee aren't very exciting.

Why STTNG is bett... "THANK YOU MR. DATA"

Ha, ha had to do it. I just love that Picard feature.
Oh, and "Inner Light" is the best ST episode of all time! I'll take a 'flute' playing Picard over any Kirk any day.

seriously. the new movies are alright, but i don't really think explosions and cgi are gonna save the franchise. the stories TNG told are never going to be topped by loud noises alone.

DS9 told deeper stories, with many more shades of grey. Alas, I think that show will never be topped for it's many layers.

Yes, Star Trek DS9 - Trials And Tribble-ations one of the best episodes ever made.

STTNG til the day I die.....

I can't remember exactly why I put Part_3 on ignore originally, but he's going back to ignore-land.

This has been pretty much my only complaint of any significance to this point in my ownership.

I disagree with people who say that they are all the same because "you just shoot the lit shots". Well, no shit Sherlock. It's the same way on pins that do have very distinct modes, including for example, LOTR. Many of the modes in that game are very unique from each other...but it is still a matter of "hitting the lit shots", wherever they are.

Nero, and perhaps Klingon battle are the two modes that stand out the most for me, but the rest of them do all have a similar feel to them. This is probably mostly because of the sounds and call outs being so similar. The female computer voice is used in most of them I believe.

Of course the MB's are cool and unique, but I am only talking about the 6 main modes (and part 2 and 3 of those same modes).

I am glad to know that we will be getting the Urban custom voice work, because that alone can make a positive difference in this regard.

Once again they arent all the same. There is one in the level 3 where the lit insert will actually move depending on which flipper you flip. The Scoring isnt the same as some are worth more then others.

at last we agree! DS9 was wonderful indeed. i mean i dunno if it was "deeper" per se but it was certainly the most underrated series of the bunch.

Owned STTNG and now own STLE....completely different feel and fun factor! STTNG got boring really fast and feels slow after playing STLE.

Its much easier to have a deeper story when you have a 3 or 4 season story arc. The last half of DS9's run was essentially a serial, and it was awesome, but then I'm a sucker for a serial.

I see your mouth moving....but nothing comes out when you move your lips, it's just a bunch of gibberish.

Gul Dukat was the most developed "bad guy" to ever appear on Star Trek in any incarnation. Marc Amelio played that character so well, it's hard to tell where one started and the other ended.

Unfortunately, they went in directions with Dukat I didn't care for the last couple of years. Insane Dukat is not as interesting as regular Dukat.

I can't help but wonder what that last season would have been like with Dukat in the Dumar role, leading a rebellion against the Dominion and Kira forced to work alongside him.

I wonder how many lines urban did for his free st le - presuming that was the deal unless he just likes the sound of his own voice in game

I will add just one more post here before I'm done defending STTNG. I will agree that if you are playing a routed stock STTNG it’s going to look and feel old and clunky. But, once you add LEDs, upgraded speakers, upgraded ships, shaker, mirrored blades, updated translite, painted Borg ship, color DMD ect. the game IMO no longer looks and feels like a 20 year old pin. Mine has all these upgrades (aside from the color DMD) and after 3 years ownership and the most plays of any pin I have owned, it’s not leaving anytime soon. Sure it’s does not have the color changing LEDs and that is pretty bad ass on STLE I'll have to admit, but it stands up well IMO to many newer pins. Would a bone stock one? Not so much.

STTNG may be a 20 year old pin but the DMD animations are vastly superior to the new LE. Case in point:

stle1-300.jpg STTNG_CardassianShip.jpg stle2.jpg STTNG_Borg.jpg STTNG_Rescue.jpg

Here's the explanation I got when I asked about that. I'm passing it on because I thought it was both funny and plausible.

"Gene told the writers during a meeting that it would be 'cool if Wesley saved the ship.' At the time, the writers all worked largely independently when writing episodes so each built plot around that occurrence without the knowledge of his colleagues. By the time it was discovered, it would have required substantial effort to back out. They decided they wanted to make the show more attractive to teens anyway, so they let it stand."

It was offered up as a warning about giving feedback. You're "wouldn't it be nice" can inadvertently start a flurry of nonsensical activity because no one will point out it's stupid.

IMG_1532.JPG
wireforms.jpg
playfieldUpper.jpg
playfieldLow.jpg

imo

The sole fact you would even quote a lyric by Eminem, as a retort no less, just makes you look like a moron. Ugh.

Well, Jackass, no one asked you to jump in. I can quote whatever I like. He may or may not have ignored me, and someone could quote my quote and he'd see it. So there are reasons.

Now, back to your Mom's basement, dweeb.

You serious? You're comparing monochrome DMD to colored ones from ColorDMD?

Compare Apples to Apples Williams DMD's back then where monochrome. Stern's can do different shades.

You can't throw ColorDMD in against the stock config.

Jesus, have the lunatics overran the asylum?

You also grabbed my screen grabs from Pinball Browser....which were set to blur the images....not the "dot" look.

Two completely different things.

Nope.

20 years of "innovation" = shaded monochrome dots?

But with TNG, you light more shots in Q mode by hitting the Q target near the back. In Time Rift, you extend the timer by hitting the center-left bank. Hitting those can drastically increase your scoring potential, but put you more at risk. Heck, Search the Galaxy is more interesting just for asking the player to hit three shots in a particular order for two artifacts instead of one. There's real strategy. There just isn't that kind of differentiation in ST. Just a number of shots to hit. Each shot gets you one closer. The bumpers are sequestered in a corner and useless. TNG's can at least fire the ball in two directions after building up the jackpot. The top lanes are marginal without the ranking system, as the bonus is too small to matter. The targets were an afterthought. I know that some of that comes down to the always-in-progress code, but I think a good portion of it comes down to the design, as well. Speed and flow, at the expense of everything else.

Why would I compare monochrome Wiliams DMD images when the STTNG in my basement has a colorDMD? Bottom line is that if you compare the best available STTNG images to the best available STLE images whether they be from a Sigma color display/X-Pin, etc. the STTNG still comes out on top. Maybe someday STLE will be colorized but that doesn't negate the fact that the actual STLE graphics look like they were drawn up by a kindergartner... It's almost 2014 and Stern should be embarrassed to be releasing graphics that look like that in this day and age. My LOTR from 10 years ago has much better DMD art.

With that being said ST is still a blast to play and the lighting is fantastic! It's faster than STTNG but if you compare the games feature for feature STTNG still blows the new game away. Better rules, better sound, better artwork, custom voicework, better animations, more toys, etc. for half the price....

I rest my case.

wow he sounds really tough, you better not mess with him.

I'm fat, I can handle it.

I agree it should be an LCD by now.....different argument.....